Public vs Private School funding

[Carn The Berries]

I'

no I asked where did you show this

all I have seen is you posting what you believe to be correct, with a bunch of acronyms and no links to sources or data to back you why you think this is correct

I posted the budget paper information previously. I'm not going to post it again.

In terms of the realignment of funding, this is publicly available information...

How and when will schools move to the Quality Schools funding arrangements? - Department of Education, Skills and Employment, Australian Government

The Department of Education, Skills and Employment works to ensure Australians can experience the wellbeing and economic benefits that quality education, skills and employment provide.

www.dese.gov.au

Similarly with the changes to Capacity to Contribute

What is the Direct Measure of Income? - Department of Education, Skills and Employment, Australian Government

The Department of Education, Skills and Employment works to ensure Australians can experience the wellbeing and economic benefits that quality education, skills and employment provide.

www.dese.gov.au

 

[Gralin]

I'

I posted the budget paper information previously. I'm not going to post it again.

In terms of the realignment of funding, this is publicly available information...

How and when will schools move to the Quality Schools funding arrangements? - Department of Education, Skills and Employment, Australian Government

The Department of Education, Skills and Employment works to ensure Australians can experience the wellbeing and economic benefits that quality education, skills and employment provide.

www.dese.gov.au

Similarly with the changes to Capacity to Contribute

What is the Direct Measure of Income? - Department of Education, Skills and Employment, Australian Government

The Department of Education, Skills and Employment works to ensure Australians can experience the wellbeing and economic benefits that quality education, skills and employment provide.

www.dese.gov.au

so you are saying that the budget papers for the feds show all the relevant funding information for public and private sector schools in all states and territories.........

 

[Carn The Berries]

so you are saying that the budget papers for the feds show all the relevant funding information for public and private sector schools in all states and territories.........

No... That is never what I said. I said that from a federal perspective the funding for public schools was increasing faster than for non-government schools.

 

[Gralin]

No... That is never what I said. I said that from a federal perspective the funding for public schools was increasing faster than for non-government schools.

ok so you are arguing against the entire issue from the perspective of one part of the issue

and you are suggesting that funding is growing quicker for public than private schools from an area that puts 80% of the money into private schools

and you are ignoring them reducing the total amount of money they plan to invest over the next several years in public and massively increasing the amount they are planning on spending in private and saying public funding is growing quicker like that solves the problems

so you seem to think its all rosy, why?

 

[Balls In]

I went to a public school, somehow uni, eventually built a career and now I send my two daughters to a private school. From that experience, in my opinion a good % of the public cohort is never going to press for university and whatsmore many of them are disruptive and don't deserve much beyond a basic education. Instead we force through, at great expense this mass of people, many of whom couldn't give a toss about high school and spend their time ruining the career prospects of those who do.

As a society we should spend our money in the most productive areas and that means private schools where the students have the best chance of returning that investment. They are more likely to succeed academically, build careers and return a lifetime of high tax payments. That's not to say I don't care about the rest. IMO more should be done to help the circa 20% of public students who actually want to pursue their academic careers and this is where the public spend should be targetted. Another place to start with that would be to return school expulsions and otherwise weeding out the many dickheads dragging down the entire public system.

 

[nut]

Sadly the world isn't fair. I went to a public school, somehow uni, eventually built a career and now I send my two daughters to a private school. In my opinion a good 80% of the public cohort is never going to press for university and whatsmore many of them don't deserve much beyond a basic education. Instead we force through, at great expense this mass of people, many of whom couldn't give a toss about high school and spend their time ruining the career prospects of those who do.

As a society we should spend our money in the most productive areas and that means private schools where the students have the best chance of returning that investment. They are more likely to succeed academically, build careers and return a lifetime of high tax payments. That's not to say I don't care about the rest. IMO more should be done to help the circa 20% of public students who actually want to pursue their academic careers and this is where the public spend should be targetted. Another place to start with that would be to return school expulsions and otherwise weeding out the many dickheads dragging down the entire public system.

So sadly you saying Australians are dumb and don’t deserve an education … ffs

 

[Gethelred]

I went to a public school, somehow uni, eventually built a career and now I send my two daughters to a private school. From that experience, in my opinion a good % of the public cohort is never going to press for university and whatsmore many of them are disruptive and don't deserve much beyond a basic education. Instead we force through, at great expense this mass of people, many of whom couldn't give a toss about high school and spend their time ruining the career prospects of those who do.

As a society we should spend our money in the most productive areas and that means private schools where the students have the best chance of returning that investment. They are more likely to succeed academically, build careers and return a lifetime of high tax payments. That's not to say I don't care about the rest. IMO more should be done to help the circa 20% of public students who actually want to pursue their academic careers and this is where the public spend should be targetted. Another place to start with that would be to return school expulsions and otherwise weeding out the many dickheads dragging down the entire public system.

Let me tell you a story.

There was a woman, who grew up in a poor part of Queensland. She went to primary school, then a public high school, dropping out at 15.

In your view, said woman is not worthwhile; she was rightfully pushed to one side. She demonstrated zero interest in further learning, and thus she did not deserve to be apportioned federal funding for her education.

That woman's name is Susan Kiefel, and she's the current Chief Justice of this country.

Your attitude toward children is appalling. You would have everyone judged by what they do and how they behave before they are twenty. Consider changing it, please.

 

[Sttew]

So sadly you saying Australians are dumb and don’t deserve an education … ffs

I don’t think he said that at all. Fact is school is not for everyone but it is compulsory, so of course you’ll have kids attending school who have zero interest, are there under sufferance, and they will do all they can to drag those around them down.

We used to have technical schools catering for the non academic students but for whatever reason our governments did away with them

 

[Gough]

I don’t think he said that at all. Fact is school is not for everyone but it is compulsory, so of course you’ll have kids attending school who have zero interest, are there under sufferance, and they will do all they can to drag those around them down.

We used to have technical schools catering for the non academic students but for whatever reason our governments did away with them

Those kids go to private schools too.

 

[Gralin]

I don’t think he said that at all. Fact is school is not for everyone but it is compulsory, so of course you’ll have kids attending school who have zero interest, are there under sufferance, and they will do all they can to drag those around them down.

We used to have technical schools catering for the non academic students but for whatever reason our governments did away with them

Its just classism at best

 

[Sttew]

Its just classism at best

How so?

 

[Gralin]

How so?

The original post which suggests unless your parents can pay for private school you are probably a drop kick who won't do the work and will disrupt class

And the government getting rid of technical schools may not have been great but you can still do those programs, I have a family member doing it right now, they are at school part time and on work sites part time learning a trade, and they are doing it through their high school without having to change schools

 

[Sttew]

The original post which suggests unless your parents can pay for private school you are probably a drop kick who won't do the work and will disrupt class

I think you a stretching a bow saying "unless your parents can pay for private school you are probably a drop kick who won't do the work and will disrupt class". That is not how I read the OP. We apply a cookie cutter model to every kid in Victoria, moreso now since Tech Schools disappeared. We all know not everyone is academic, but children must attend a form of school up to the age of 17.

 

[Balls In]

So sadly you saying Australians are dumb and don’t deserve an education … ffs

Didn't say that

 

[Balls In]

I think you a stretching a bow saying "unless your parents can pay for private school you are probably a drop kick who won't do the work and will disrupt class". That is not how I read the OP. We apply a cookie cutter model to every kid in Victoria, moreso now since Tech Schools disappeared. We all know not everyone is academic, but children must attend a form of school up to the age of 17.

This is correct. We have an education system that wastes a fortune forcing the vast bulk of people down a single, unattainable career direction. 30% of Australians go to university and what perecentage of those from the public system? Yet here we go with a public system wholely set up to prepare and select students for university study that only a fraction will obtain. This fails the vast bulk of people who were never going down that path who end up wasting a couple of years at school just because they have to be there, and drags down the prospects of those who have legitimate aspirations for uni study having to try to learn amongst those who aren't interested.

 

[Gralin]

I think you a stretching a bow saying "unless your parents can pay for private school you are probably a drop kick who won't do the work and will disrupt class". That is not how I read the OP. We apply a cookie cutter model to every kid in Victoria, moreso now since Tech Schools disappeared. We all know not everyone is academic, but children must attend a form of school up to the age of 17.

I mean again I have a family member doing their apprenticeship right now, part time at school part time on the building site, through their high school that they were already attending prior to deciding to take up a trade

in my opinion a good % of the public cohort is never going to press for university and whatsmore many of them are disruptive and don't deserve much beyond a basic education.

so what do you think this means Sttew if its not being classist given this is purely an attack on public school kids

As a society we should spend our money in the most productive areas and that means private schools where the students have the best chance of returning that investment. They are more likely to succeed academically, build careers and return a lifetime of high tax payments. That's not to say I don't care about the rest.

or this

IMO more should be done to help the circa 20% of public students who actually want to pursue their academic careers and this is where the public spend should be targetted. Another place to start with that would be to return school expulsions and otherwise weeding out the many dickheads dragging down the entire public system.

or this, you know the i reckon 1 in 5 public school kids actually want to make something of themselves and the rest should be expelled to allow those remaining to thrive

* me dead

 

[Gough]

Howard and Morrison both went to public schools, we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss this wasters in the public system idea.

 

[Sttew]

so what do you think this means Sttew if its not being classist given this is purely an attack on public school kids


or this


or this, you know the i reckon 1 in 5 public school kids actually want to make something of themselves and the rest should be expelled to allow those remaining to thrive

fu** me dead

Alright! Some of that is "classist", but it is probably also an immutable fact of life.

Investing in kids to attend school who have absolutely no desire to be there is a bit of a waste. Your experience with the family member is positive. We need a lot more of this. Is that in regional Victoria or in the City? We need to find alternative paths for kids from an early age instead of forcing them to attend a school until 17. Do you agree?

There are kids in private schools who don't want to be there and the parents hope they will be turned, but it is a bigger issue in public schools.

 

[Gralin]

Howard and Morrison both went to public schools, we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss this wasters in the public system idea.

i mean we've still got pollies that got a free uni education running around trying to destroy the system

but yeah can't really agree with the 4/5 public school students are a waste of space idea because of Morrison and Howard, who I am assuming without bothering to check didn't go to poor public schools

 

[Gralin]

Alright! Some of that is "classist", but it is probably also an immutable fact of life.

So yeah some of it is classist but whatever?

Investing in kids to attend school who have absolutely no desire to be there is a bit of a waste.

bloody hell how many kids really want to be there in high school all the time

I agree they shouldn't treat high school as a funnel for University only, there are many pathways people can take and many jobs that don't require university but an education isn't a waste, if you can learn how to read and write and add up, that's pretty useful for anyone

Your experience with the family member is positive. We need a lot more of this. Is that in regional Victoria or in the City? We need to find alternative paths for kids from an early age instead of forcing them to attend a school until 17. Do you agree?

metro Melbourne
it's not just the schools, its the parents as well though, the push that higher education is the only pathway, private schools push that hard btw

There are kids in private schools who don't want to be there and the parents hope they will be turned, but it is a bigger issue in public schools.

how do you know its a bigger issue in public schools

 

[Sttew]

how do you know its a bigger issue in public schools

How do you know it isn't?

 

[Sttew]

I agree they shouldn't treat high school as a funnel for University only, there are many pathways people can take and many jobs that don't require university but an education isn't a waste, if you can learn how to read and write and add up, that's pretty useful for anyone

We're not talking primary or even middle school, where the fundamentals are taught. We're talking about secondary school and if kids haven't learnt the basics by then, then the system needs an overhaul.

 

[Gralin]

How do you know it isn't?

you're the one suggesting it is, but you've given no reason why

could it be classism again?

We're not talking primary or even middle school, where the fundamentals are taught. We're talking about secondary school and if kids haven't learnt the basics by then, then the system needs an overhaul.

middle school, where do you live?

also you think Primary school level is sufficient for all adults to be able to navigate society do you?

 

[Sttew]

middle school, where do you live?

also you think Primary school level is sufficient for all adults to be able to navigate society do you?

I didn't say that. You are prone to put words in the mouths of posters to suit your narrative. Where did you learn this neat trick? It's not just today that you have done it.

That aside, and this may be evidence of what you facetiously label, "classism" but many private schools are now divided into ELC; Primary; Middle and Senior (Yrs 10 -12).

You made the point, "an education isn't a waste, if you can learn how to read and write and add up, that's pretty useful for anyone". I said learning how to read and write are fundamentals taught in Primary school. Nowhere did I say Primary school is "sufficient for all adults to be able to navigate society".

 

[Gralin]

I didn't say that. You are prone to put words in the mouths of posters to suit your narrative. Where did you learn this neat trick? It's not just today that you have done it.

That aside, and this may be evidence of what you facetiously label, "classism" but many private schools are now divided into ELC; Primary; Middle and Senior (Yrs 10 -12).

You made the point, "an education isn't a waste, if you can learn how to read and write and add up, that's pretty useful for anyone". I said learning how to read and write are fundamentals taught in Primary school. Nowhere did I say Primary school is "sufficient for all adults to be able to navigate society".

I mean maybe use Universal names then We don't have middle school in Australia
We have pre, primary, secondary and tertiary

If your argument is year 10 is sufficient say that