Expansion QLD and NSW academies

[.Shotties.]

Yet it is. Being gifted a first round pick every 2.5 years is absurd in an equalized competition.

Have we ended up with five extra first round pick players over this time or am I missing something?

 

[Philhawk]

Have we ended up with five extra first round pick players over this time or am I missing something?

What are you missing?

Campbell, Heeney and Mills were all matched with rubbish later picks when bids were made in the top 5.

It must be nice to know irrespective of where you finish on the ladder, every 2.5 years you’ll get a top 5 pick for, essentially, free.

 

[.Shotties.]

What are you missing?

That we're not being gifted a first round pick every 2.5 years. I think over the journey there would have been one first round pick that came after our natural pick which resulted in us getting an extra first rounder.

 

[.Shotties.]

It must be nice to know irrespective of where you finish on the ladder, every 2.5 years you’ll get a top 5 pick for, essentially, free.

I'll ask you what I ask everyone about this:

Would you spend the next thirty years being unable to draft from Victoria in the main draft (or one chance every decade or so) have no trade requests back from Victorian players and maintain a list of 90% or more interstate players in exchange for a zone in the equivalent of the Tweed, Shoalhaven, and Hunter? That is, no existing elite junior pathways, football is third choice.

 

[Philhawk]

I'll ask you what I ask everyone about this:

Would you spend the next thirty years being unable to draft from Victoria in the main draft (or one chance every decade or so) have no trade requests back from Victorian players and maintain a list of 90% or more interstate players in exchange for a zone in the equivalent of the Tweed, Shoalhaven, and Hunter? That is, no existing elite junior pathways, football is third choice.

I have no idea how that is relevant. All clubs lose players elsewhere. West Coast have lost more than most. They just don’t have their own private recruiting area which gives them access to a free first rounder every 2.5 years

 

[Philhawk]

That we're not being gifted a first round pick every 2.5 years. I think over the journey there would have been one first round pick that came after our natural pick which resulted in us getting an extra first rounder.

That’s not how it works. It’s not about getting one after your pick, it’s about how in 2015 you finished 4th and received pick 3 (Mills), or in 2014 when you finished 2nd, receiving the guy who would have gone pick 2 at pick 18.

I think people would respect Swans fans and their protestations about the fairness of academies more if they stopped pretending this was nothing more than a spectacular rort, rather than pretending it’s anything but.

 

[RUNVS]

Often?

Mills was 3 picks in the 30s and 1 in the 40s.

Blakey was 2 picks in the 30s and 1 in the 40s.

Campbell was 2 picks in the 30s and 2 in the 40s

Yes, and where did we get those picks? A bit of a hint, we traded out our first rounder for those picks, hence, we used our first rounder.

 

[.Shotties.]

I have no idea how that is relevant. All clubs lose players elsewhere. West Coast have lost more than most. They just don’t have their own private recruiting area which gives them access to a free first rounder every 2.5 years

Haha, are you illiterate?

Would you take those circumstances or not in exchange for an academy in the areas mentioned? Yes or no?

 

[Philhawk]

Haha, are you illiterate?

Would you take those circumstances or not in exchange for an academy in the areas mentioned? Yes or no?

Your hypothetical is poorly worded and makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe try again.

 

[Maddo11]

This thread is laughable. Oh well, since we're getting "too many free first rounders" maybe we'll cop another trade ban for .... following the rules exactly as they're laid out.

 

[.Shotties.]

Your hypothetical is poorly worded and makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe try again.

No, it does. Would you accept the conditions laid out for 30 years? That is:

1. One, maybe two chances to draft a Victorian player in the main draft a decade. Especially if you're talking about not reaching into the following rounds.
2. Few (if any) requests from Victorian players to be traded back to Victoria.
3. No high level state league or junior pathways.
4. 90% of your list is made up of interstate players.

After those 30 years you get an academy in an area like our zones, which had produced no draftees for almost the entirety of their existence (Paul Bevan and Greg Stafford might count although I think they lived in GWS zones) and were third (at best) in terms of participation, not even mentioning the infrastructure and pathways around the junior programs.

So. Yes or no?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yes. Academies undermine the draft which is a key pillar of equalisation.

Father son does too so I'm happy for that to be consigned to history as well.

 

[RUNVS]

Yes. Academies undermine the draft which is a key pillar of equalisation.

Father son does too so I'm happy for that to be consigned to history as well.

Would you be happy though if Daniel Ward's son turns out to be the next Gary Ablett Jnr?

 

[Elixuh]

The VFL mind simply cannot comprehend why academies exist and laughably bring up equalisation as a reason to get rid of them

Supporters for the WA and SA clubs I give a little bit more rope to, even though they themselves exist in traditional AFL territory.

But VFL supporters complaining about equalisation? C'mon now.

 

[RUNVS]

The VFL mind simply cannot comprehend why academies exist and laughably bring up equalisation as a reason to get rid of them

Supporters for the WA and SA clubs I give a little bit more rope to, even though they themselves exist in traditional AFL territory.

But VFL supporters complaining about equalisation? C'mon now.

Yep. They don't even understand how the non-Victorian clubs actively discuss before the draft the go home factor, and will often take the less desirable player simply because there is less of a go home factor. Victorian clubs don't need to worry about that anywhere near as much.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Would you be happy though if Daniel Ward's son turns out to be the next Gary Ablett Jnr?

Yes

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The VFL mind simply cannot comprehend why academies exist and laughably bring up equalisation as a reason to get rid of them

Supporters for the WA and SA clubs I give a little bit more rope to, even though they themselves exist in traditional AFL territory.

But VFL supporters complaining about equalisation? C'mon now.

Supporters of clubs with these Academy priority pick free hits find any excuse to rationalise them. Understandable, why wouldn't you want to maintain a competitive advantage.

 

[strand_victor]

At a bare minimum no first round draft pick should be tied to an academy.

The academies make a mockery of trying to have an equal competition which is already filled with other flaws.

I wish our Club had an Academy we get Zilch while Teams in New South Wales and Queensland get Spoon Fed with High Quality Talent from their Academies/Father Sons. It's sad seeing South Australia and Western Australia being Neglected by the AFL.

 

[Muddiemoose]

This is just a random throw away idea but what about removing the club links to the academies but making it state links

So instead of any one team getting exclusive access to bid for a player they need to be able to outbid the other club in the state so the player will go to the club who chooses to match the bid with the lowest draft pick gets priority for the bid

I keeps the players and clubs invested but it’s just a little extra mechanism to hold teams accountable for fair value

 

[GC2015]

I wish our Club had an Academy we get Zilch while Teams in New South Wales and Queensland get Spoon Fed with High Quality Talent from their Academies/Father Sons. It's sad seeing South Australia and Western Australia being Neglected by the AFL.

Do some research into one of your NGA prospects named Zemes Pilot. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[My_Username]

All the draft exceptions (academy/nga/FS/shoe size/whatever) should be treated the same.

2 changes.

1st pick used to match must be within 1 round (18 picks, determined at the time) of the bid. With live trading, this shouldn't be a major issue, but will make the 'garbage picks' less of an issue.

Clubs get a limited number of points as 'discount', and if they run out, they pay full price.
So if you have 400pts discount points banked, and get to match pick 1, instead of paying 2400pts (3000 less 20%), you pay 2600.

If you don't use (all of) your picks in a given year, you can bank them (this goes some way to balancing out the good and bad luck with FS/NGAs/etc). One pool for all sources (so if you use all your points for a FS, and then have an NGA, you pay full price for the NGA). Clubs wont necessarily get the same amount (AFL might decide to give more/less based on ladder or location), but the average year should have more points used than given out (so clubs WILL run out unless they're really unlucky).

 

[Taper]

Brisbane are debt free or close to as of this year.

Brisbane's debt levels were $13 million as of two years ago.
Did their AFL sugar daddy wipe the debt?
It wouldn't surprise me given all the handouts the Lions and Suns have received and continue to receive.

 

[Cmarsh]

Brisbane's debt levels were $13 million as of two years ago.
Did their AFL sugar daddy wipe the debt?
It wouldn't surprise me given all the handouts the Lions and Suns have received and continue to receive.

Pretty sure every club gets a financial distribution from the AFL don't they?

Also I wouldn't have too much of a go at the Lions as a Geelong fan. Their home crowds at the Gabba are pretty comparable to Geelong's at Kardinia Park.

 

[Taper]

Pretty sure every club gets a financial distribution from the AFL don't they?

Also I wouldn't have too much of a go at the Lions as a Geelong fan. Their home crowds at the Gabba are pretty comparable to Geelong's at Kardinia Park.

QLD and NSW clubs are spoon fed because the AFL want to prioritise those clubs winning flags first and foremost, even if it means screwing over clubs in Victoria.

 

[Cmarsh]

QLD and NSW clubs are spoon fed because the AFL want to prioritise those clubs winning flags first and foremost, even if it means screwing over clubs in Victoria.

None of your response disputes that all clubs recieve financial distribution from the AFL.