Preview R10: Changes vs. Collingwood

[CrowBloke]

Reckon Curtin and Taylor would be feeling nervous.

Curtin, yes. I'm on Page One of this thread but a few posters above have called for Taylor to be dropped.
It's unfair imo.
Taylor curtailed Rozee in the second half from 21 disposals down to 11; no easy feat.

Curtin, however, had 2 Kicks and a handball before being subbed. Watching live on TV I didn't even notice him on the ground. Zero game impact.

 

[Cromulant]

Curtin, however, had 2 Kicks and a handball before being subbed. Watching live on TV I didn't even notice him on the ground. Zero game impact.

Not quite.

Few clever little tap ons and blocks, he also created the mismatch which allowed our forwards to get to work.

Didnt have a super game by any means, but he did some important things.

 

[GreyCrow]

Why is Draper getting 1/4 of a game at AFL level

Could have stopped there to answer your question

Its a philosophy that seems to be ingrained at our club that we dont trust - or try and protect - our younger players

We select these high draft picks and then dont trust them to showcase the talents that got them to a high pick

Now that could be fitness or philosophy but its frustrating as a supporter to see this dead ground that helps nobody

 

[Jarman3]

Curtin, yes. I'm on Page One of this thread but a few posters above have called for Taylor to be dropped.
It's unfair imo.
Taylor curtailed Rozee in the second half from 21 disposals down to 11; no easy feat.

Curtin, however, had 2 Kicks and a handball before being subbed. Watching live on TV I didn't even notice him on the ground. Zero game impact.

Yeah, he often gets a bit lost when playing up forward - gets starved of the ball with Tex, Fog and Thilthorpe in front of him as those tall forwards. But he was so quiet this week that I wasn't sure if he was even playing forward or wing or where because he just wasn't sighted. Although I wouldn't be dropping him on the basis of one quiet game. If he has another one or two like that then it may be time for a run in the 2's for a week or two just to get his hands on the ball a bit.

I wouldn't be dropping Taylor, he's been great the past few weeks. A little off against Port, but most of our side was and, as you said, he did a good job when shifted onto Rozee. There's a question to be asked about why it took until half time to make that change.

 

[Cromulant]

Could have stopped there to answer your question

Its a philosophy that seems to be ingrained at our club that we dont trust - or try and protect - our younger players

We select these high draft picks and then dont trust them to showcase the talents that got them to a high pick

Now that could be fitness or philosophy but its frustrating as a supporter to see this dead ground that helps nobody

We havent done it with everyone, certainly not as much as we have done with Sid anyway.

I think its as simple as a low fitness base off a limited pre season for him. Now what we SHOULD have done is said "Sid needs some time in the legs as he was managed heavily through his first pre season, so he's going to have a block of SANFL games"

We didnt do that, and we stuffed him around a bit (at least from the outside looking in).

 

[Jarman3]

In good news, that Showdown was the last game I'll see as I'm heading overseas in a few days for 6 weeks and won't be watching any games during that time. So look forward to us going on an absolute tear during that time (sadly wasting 1 week on the bye). Expect us to set up our finals berth during that time before collapsing in a heap after I get back in time to watch us suck again.

 

[1970crow]

There was an element of making Worrell wait due to past indiscretions. Not saying that's the right way to do it, but it's what they did.

We do need to put some games into Edwards, Ryan, Dowling and obviously Draper.

That would be extremely disappointing, but not surprising. When you screw up, you should serve your penalty and when it's done, it's done. If he was being held back due to that then they're penalising everyone.

 

[1970crow]

Yep, we don’t tag regardless of opposition. Our lack of ability to have a shutdown player or tactic for opposition A-Graders is a big deficiency, regardless of who we play in our midfield mix.

Neil Craig, "good sides don't tag". It still lives to this day, embedded in our culture.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Looks like it might be very wet on Saturday, surely a good time to rest Tex then whose movement has been coming off.

 

[DJ75]

Curtin, yes. I'm on Page One of this thread but a few posters above have called for Taylor to be dropped.
It's unfair imo.
Taylor curtailed Rozee in the second half from 21 disposals down to 11; no easy feat.

Curtin, however, had 2 Kicks and a handball before being subbed. Watching live on TV I didn't even notice him on the ground. Zero game impact.

Curtin also dropped his head in marking contests, went one handed and seemed completely out of it.

He's shown some great signs in the last few weeks, but that game was one he would like to forget.

 

[DJ75]

Huge test. It's going to require guts and determination.

I know we will be in this game, but we'll need the same belief as Collingwood in those final minutes and to be sure that any bad umpiring decisions will not stop us.

Go back and watch the close losses in the Collingwood games and you will see the same coaching failures we saw against Port. As soon as we get in front, we stop playing and running. We all stand still while we kick long high balls.
It allows the opposition to get on the front foot and attack until they get a mark, or lucky free and win the game.
Deliberately putting your defence under as much pressure as possible is not a winning strategy at then end of close games.

 

[rabidcrow]

We havent done it with everyone, certainly not as much as we have done with Sid anyway.

I think its as simple as a low fitness base off a limited pre season for him. Now what we SHOULD have done is said "Sid needs some time in the legs as he was managed heavily through his first pre season, so he's going to have a block of SANFL games"

We didnt do that, and we stuffed him around a bit (at least from the outside looking in).

These comments get made on here all the time - how we stuff young players around and often said how they will or should go elsewhere. Josh Worrell certainly had that said about him a bit

And yet I see in his interview last week he reckons he probably wouldn’t be on an AFL list if he played for another club after the early struggles he had

Highlights how people view what’s happening from the outside is not relevant to what’s actually going on

 

[rabidcrow]

That would be extremely disappointing, but not surprising. When you screw up, you should serve your penalty and when it's done, it's done. If he was being held back due to that then they're penalising everyone.

Depends on what it was - Worrell said himself he feels lucky to still be on an AFL list

 

[1970crow]

How many goals has he conceded? Which forward has beaten him this season? Without mentioning his disposal is top 25% comp wide - in a team that struggles to hit targets.

With respect to the disposal aspect, you can't compare disposal from general defenders to midfielders to forwards. As you progress up the ground, disposal becomes more difficult. There are very few easy sideways targets as you head forward of centre. So comparing Milera to other defenders, you'll find that he is fairly average. Of 183 defenders he is;

Disposal efficiency - 97th - 5.4
Kicking efficiency - 88th - 4.9
Metres gained/disposal - 119th - 6.6
Threat/Kick - 78th - 4.3
Score involvement/disposal - 75th - 4.2
Defensive 1on1 contests lost - 142nd - 7.9
Pressure acts - 67th - 3.7
One percenters - 148th - 8.2
Tackles - 48th - 2.7
Intercept marks - 101st - 5.6

So basically he's a guy that is basically middle of the pack for the difficulty of the kicks he takes on, the efficiency of those kicks and the scoring that comes from them. And then the only defensive aspect that he ranks in the top 3 players on average per team is tackles. So kudos there I guess. But if you want to bring statistics into the discussion, you're looking at the very definition of a bog average player. You'd wear it if he was 21 and developing towards something better. But you can't when it's a near 28 year old and you're looking at his ceiling. No different to Murphy.

 

[1970crow]

Maybe some on this board have it.

The opposite though is Treasued Old Toy Syndrome, and it has been a big problem at selection for years.

That dog on TV is giving up Ropey.

 

[Captain Furious]

With respect to the disposal aspect, you can't compare disposal from general defenders to midfielders to forwards. As you progress up the ground, disposal becomes more difficult. There are very few easy sideways targets as you head forward of centre. So comparing Milera to other defenders, you'll find that he is fairly average. Of 183 defenders he is;

Disposal efficiency - 97th - 5.4
Kicking efficiency - 88th - 4.9
Metres gained/disposal - 119th - 6.6
Threat/Kick - 78th - 4.3
Score involvement/disposal - 75th - 4.2
Defensive 1on1 contests lost - 142nd - 7.9
Pressure acts - 67th - 3.7
One percenters - 148th - 8.2
Tackles - 48th - 2.7
Intercept marks - 101st - 5.6

So basically he's a guy that is basically middle of the pack for the difficulty of the kicks he takes on, the efficiency of those kicks and the scoring that comes from them. And then the only defensive aspect that he ranks in the top 3 players on average per team is tackles. So kudos there I guess. But if you want to bring statistics into the discussion, you're looking at the very definition of a bog average player. You'd wear it if he was 21 and developing towards something better. But you can't when it's a near 28 year old and you're looking at his ceiling. No different to Murphy.

When you ignore the main point of the post…defenders that stop their opponents from getting the ball and scoring seem to be oddly underrated.

 

[Cromulant]

When you ignore the main point of the post…defenders that stop their opponents from getting the ball and scoring seem to be oddly underrated.

Milera doesn't really do that either

 

[CrowBloke]

Curtin also dropped his head in marking contests, went one handed and seemed completely out of it.

I didn't notice that; do you think he might've heard footsteps? He's a big lad.
Another poster (Cromulant?) pointed out above that Curtin did several 1-%-ers but I gotta say I didn't notice (that might be my fault, not Curtin's). I deadset did not notice Curtin at all.

He's shown some great signs in the last few weeks,

Yeah, he looked like he was coming along well.
Maybe the heat and niggle from the Showdown furnace got to him. I wouldn't want to be out there!

but that game was one he would like to forget.

Yeah, I agree, but Nicks (to his credit ) stuck with Nankervis, so maybe he'll give Curtin another go.

 

[Golumless]

Our senior players will never be held to account the same way our less experienced players are. Calling for Laird or Milera out is pointless.

Reckon Curtin and Taylor would be feeling nervous.

Curtin wouldn't be feeling any nerves whatsoever. We've made it pretty clear this year is just to get games into him.

Taylor might, though, at most it'll be a demotion to the sub role. Even then, it's probably a tad on the harsh side, especially after we gave Nankervis a reprieve last week.

That said, looks and smells like a no changes week though with Berry finally getting a starting role for one of Nankervis/Taylor.

 

[Redline]

We are clearly a few elite players short around the ground to be a genuine contender.

They may not make it but Draper and Curtin are potentially the closest to developing into that. They have to play and it would be good experience on the MCG.

 

[jimvic]

Curtin wouldn't be feeling any nerves whatsoever. We've made it pretty clear this year is just to get games into him.

Taylor might, though, at most it'll be a demotion to the sub role. Even then, it's probably a tad on the harsh side, especially after we gave Nankervis a reprieve last week.

That said, looks and smells like a no changes week though with Berry finally getting a starting role for one of Nankervis/Taylor.

Having watched the SANFL game it is clear we need to get Edwards in pronto. Maybe time for Tex to have a rest as he did pretty much nothing

 

[GameofSloanes]

We havent done it with everyone, certainly not as much as we have done with Sid anyway.

I think its as simple as a low fitness base off a limited pre season for him. Now what we SHOULD have done is said "Sid needs some time in the legs as he was managed heavily through his first pre season, so he's going to have a block of SANFL games"

We didnt do that, and we stuffed him around a bit (at least from the outside looking in).

He appeared to be rested in the last qtr of the SANFL game, so we may be at least keeping the option of bringing him in this week alive

 

[jenny61_99]

IMO, Curtin needs to stay in like they did with Nankervis, give him another chance to prove himself on a BIG stage at the G against the Pies.

 

[GameofSloanes]

Having watched the SANFL game it is clear we need to get Edwards in pronto. Maybe time for Tex to have a rest as he did pretty much nothing

Edwards was excellent, would play him instead of berry

 

[GameofSloanes]

IMO, Curtin needs to stay in like they did with Nankervis, give him another chance to prove himself on a BIG stage at the G against the Pies.

Nank had a few good moments in the showdown, was an improved performance from him and he's worth persisting with