Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Snake_Baker]

There are risks involved, but the current system is a disaster. Inheritance is fundamental to inequality

You make some very good points, but in a society that is at war with itself, it will never happen.

 

[Royal Flush]

There are risks involved, but the current system is a disaster. Inheritance is fundamental to inequality

So we should all be financially equal?

 

[Themanbun]

While a lot of the time inheritance taxes would probably result in the hyper wealthy having their money redistributed, they're a really blunt tool and create a lot of outright cruel situations.

The thought of a single mum or dad scrimping and scraping to leave their kids something and then dying in a car accident, having his or her kids' future security they aimed to leave them completely plundered is just too much.

I say this as someone who stands to inherit nothing.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

People are wedded to coal.

If you're not then turn off your ****ing computer.

They won’t let us have nuclear...

 

[Snake_Baker]

While a lot of the time inheritance taxes would probably result in the hyper wealthy having their money redistributed, they're a really blunt tool and create a lot of outright cruel situations.

Redistribute wealth to who?

Redistribute wealth in a society of liars & charlatans clawing at each other for victim status?

I have told you folks a million times before, universal libertarianism is the only answer.

Once we are divided, we are beaten. Once we all have the same rights, then we can't be beaten.

 

[DesertRoo]

They won’t let us have nuclear...

I pray to all the solar deities that there might be a solution...

 

[Snake_Baker]

They won’t let us have nuclear...

Among the dumbest decisions in Australia over the past 50 years.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You make some very good points, but in a society that is at war with itself, it will never happen.

I would add.........it not only won't happen, it won't work.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I keep reading about all these corporate tax and their affiliated enforcement solutions, but the problem is a lot of companies, especially foreign subsidiaries, will simply up and leave like they always do when a country raises wages and/or corporate tax enforcement.

There will be a lengthy void waiting on locals to fill the market gap and people will have to be attached to the welfare system in the, potentially lengthy, interim. Not to mention the other economic, living and social effects.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I pray to all the solar deities that there might be a solution...

You would have better luck praying to Cthulu.

 

[Themanbun]

I keep reading about all these corporate tax and their affiliated enforcement solutions, but the problem is a lot of companies, especially foreign subsidiaries, will simply up and leave like they always do when a country raises wages and/or corporate tax enforcement.

There will be a lengthy void waiting on locals to fill the market gap and people will have to be attached to the welfare system in the, potentially lengthy, interim. Not to mention the other economic, living and social effects.

Agreed in general, this is why I propose the creation of national industries (who don't pay tax) to outcompete them.

Having said that, foreign companies carrying on business through a branch in Australia are already subject to corporate tax here. The point about leaving is often overstated, at least where the company serves the Australian market through Australian personnel (different when Australian personnel serve overseas markets). The key question will be whether or not their business here remains profitable. Given that corporate taxes are hinged on a percentage of profits, by definition the company venture in Australia remains profitable...just less so than before. It's where Aussie taxes result in a double dipping for them that it gets sticky.

 

[samoodan]

So we should all be financially equal?

each generation should have equal opportunity. What they achieve/profit in their own lifetime is theirs.

Until they die... Mwa ha ha har!

 

[DesertRoo]

You would have better luck praying to Cthulu.

My next suggestion is solar panels on the moon..

 

[Snake_Baker]

each generation should have equal opportunity. What they achieve/profit in their own lifetime is theirs.

Until they die... Mwa ha ha har!

No, all folks should be entitled to a set of fundamentals basics and what they get after that comes from their own efforts.

 

[B4Bear]

I keep reading about all these corporate tax and their affiliated enforcement solutions, but the problem is a lot of companies, especially foreign subsidiaries, will simply up and leave like they always do when a country raises wages and/or corporate tax enforcement.

There will be a lengthy void waiting on locals to fill the market gap and people will have to be attached to the welfare system in the, potentially lengthy, interim. Not to mention the other economic, living and social effects.

What is the net loss if they do leave?

It is not like Amazon, Google or Apple actually employ many people here for the amount of profit they make.

These multi-national shitheads either toe the line or cya. Simples.

 

[B4Bear]

Bruce Billson to replace Kate Carnell as Small Business Ombudsman (afr.com)

This is exactly what I was talking about. HE should be in gaol for corruption.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Agreed in general, this is why I propose the creation of national industries (who don't pay tax) to outcompete them.

Having said that, foreign companies carrying on business through a branch in Australia are already subject to corporate tax here. The point about leaving is often overstated, at least where the company serves the Australian market through Australian personnel (different when Australian personnel serve overseas markets). The key question will be whether or not their business here remains profitable. Given that corporate taxes are hinged on a percentage of profits, by definition the company venture in Australia remains profitable...just less so than before. It's where Aussie taxes result in a double dipping for them that it gets sticky.

Good points, but near-complete economic, investment and technological self-sufficiency is not an achievable outcome for an isolated medium power like us. It is a balancing act.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Good points, but near-complete economic, investment and technological self-sufficiency is not an achievable outcome for an isolated medium power like us. It is a balancing act.

We'd be better situated than most.

What would we have to import if we provided our own industry & manufacturing?

National socialism could actually work in Australia.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

We'd be better situated than most.

What would we have to import if we provided our own industry & manufacturing?

National socialism could actually work in Australia.

A nationalisation-centric version of socialism, not the master race variant, I assume...

Those industries still need a vast amount of raw materials, technology, investment, etc., that we simply cannot generate. The best domestic example of what you describe is what we did with the national mobilisation program of 1942-45. We made a lot of improvements to overcome international deficiencies, but still heavily dependent on foreign technology and credit. The sustainability of it all is another question. Even China is not a national autarky or a complete command economy.

 

[Chadwiko]

Can anyone explain what sort of socialism they want in australia and how that would look?

Medicare / Universal Healthcare
A welfare system that helps people get out/stay out of poverty
HECS/HELP
Free school education for all
Government-subsidised early childhood
Paid Parental Leave for both parents
Strong workers entitlements such as 4 weeks rec-leave, strong sick-leave etc
Strong personal/community safety laws (IE gun control)

 

[The Warlord]

I wouldn’t say Chifley was a socialist. More of a left-wing nationalist than a proper socialist.

His involvement with Empire defence and commonwealth cooperation with the joint project, including nuclear collaboration discussions, also showed a tendency to favour the monarchy.

He tried to introduce universal healthcare and nationalise the banks.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

He tried to introduce universal healthcare and nationalise the banks.

And committed Australia to the joint imperial defence of regional shipping lanes, and the Middle East in the event of war. A lot more grey than a pure socialist was more my point.

 

[The Warlord]

I keep reading about all these corporate tax and their affiliated enforcement solutions, but the problem is a lot of companies, especially foreign subsidiaries, will simply up and leave like they always do when a country raises wages and/or corporate tax enforcement.

A right wing lie.

Right now companies are moving AWAY from Britain which will have lower personal and conmpany taxes, unto EU locations like Amsterdam, which have higher costs.

Because Britain has cooked itself.

There's a reason the Chicago Boys needed Pinochet's Chile to try out their theories.

 

[The Warlord]

And committed Australia to the joint imperial defence of regional shipping lanes, and the Middle East in the event of war. A lot more grey than a pure socialist was more my point.

Think you've got the classic problem of imposing your definition of socialism onto things. Often amazes me what folks on here claim is socialist.

There is not much more socialist than nationalising the banks. Or bringing in universal health care.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

A strong social safety net for all.

Increased resources for public education, public health and transportation systems.

Removal of lobbyists in perpetuity from the halls of power.

Removal of the loopholes that allow billions in tax to not be paid, consequently meaning the PAYE suckers have to foot that bill.

Potentially a universal basic income if the numbers stack up. But one that is more than the pittance the dole pays of $40 per day.

Re-invest in manufacturing that we have outsourced overseas. Bring back the car industry, it was the driver (no pun) of the skills and training we lack today.

Incentivise companies to train their own work force (tax breaks maybe?) instead of dodgy visas tha tkeep younger Australians out of training and employment opportunities.

Just off the top of my head.

Pretty much all this. And everything Themanbun said on taxation. Genuinely the best poster on this topic on this entire site, let alone this board.

I'm also big on the need to reconceptualise what we consider essential infrastructure in the digital age, starting with the nationalisation and free use of broadband and access to the internet. A move that will result in the possibility of a more remote workforce which has follow-on effects on climate change, de-urbanisation, regional growth etc