Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[The acurate one]

RIP Great Uncle Mick.

A part of your story man, the bravest of souls am sure you're all very proud.
I plan on heading that way when the coast is clear.

 

[Val Keating]

Harris was the one the DNC wanted all along. It’s why she’s VP while they play weekend at Bernies with Biden.

 

[Themanbun]

One of the great takedowns from Tulsi, basically stopped Harris run to the Whitehouse by attacking her record as a DA

Tulsi is one of my faves, but I feel like a lot of people clung to her here because they hate Harris, not because of what they think of the matters at hand that she discussed.

Harris was a prosecutor and AG. They don't write the laws and since moving into a position where they vote and write laws, she's been pro-reform on criminal justice, often citing her experiences as prosecutor. Anyway, convictions for marijuana related offences went down under her tenure, but AGs and chief prosecutors don't handle these low level cases in practice. Laws are written, complaints and arrests are made, and a decision will be made to prosecute - not based on what the AG feels about drug use, but on whether or not there are reasonable prospects of success and there is available and reliable evidence to prove a crime - made a crime by other people - can be proved.

With regard to the Kevin Cooper case Harris has been calling for DNA testing to be allowed in pre-DNA cases since at least 2018. This is an absolute legal minefield that we've dealt with in Australia so presumably it was the same type of minefield back when Harris was a prosecutor.

I don't know much about the other two accusations, but Gabbard isn't exactly going to be singing her praises and providing context in this video given the situation. Hell, Harris straight up calls the dude she eventually ends up running beside a racist at the start of that debate.

Harris has an extremely strong labour relations record from a left leaning point of view and absolutely obliterated the big banks in some consumer protections prosecutions when everyone thought she'd lose. Tulsi is one of my favourites but she has some ordinary votes (IMO) in the past as well.

I really don't get the attacking a prosecutor for prosecuting and doing their job, when it was politicians who wrote the laws. When they've used that experience to then head into politics to try and change things for the better is all I really ask. I guess you could say she asked for it by relying on her prosecutions record and implying she 'changed' things for the better during her tenure, but despite her bluster and despite Gabbard's accusations, prosecutors simply enforce the laws that exist.

My main issue with Gabbard is that she barely bothered to run an IR platform despite a relatively strong record on the topic. Stupid move.

 

[ferball]

Biden and Harris lost Florida for being 'too leftist'. It's an absurd assessment, but this is America. Given my political leanings of course Bernie was my favourite but I suspect he stood little chance in this election even if he weren't shafted in the primaries. Just my $0.02.

I also think the criticism of Harris from the left has been ridiculously unfair given her IR record and even some of the consumer matters she ran as prosecutor. I suspect the appointment of Harris went a long way to pacifying Bernie.

Florida is heavily influenced by the Cuban ex pat community and the right wing politics that goes with hating Castro.

 

[Themanbun]

Florida is heavily influenced by the Cuban ex pat community and the right wing politics that goes with hating Castro.

I know. But I don't think it's really in question that a lot of swing voters were put off Harris in particular for the same reasons.

 

[DesertRoo]

Tulsi is one of my faves, but I feel like a lot of people clung to her here because they hate Harris, not because of what they think of the matters at hand that she discussed.

Harris was a prosecutor and AG. They don't write the laws and since moving into a position where they vote and write laws, she's been pro-reform on criminal justice, often citing her experiences as prosecutor. Anyway, convictions for marijuana related offences went down under her tenure, but AGs and chief prosecutors don't handle these low level cases in practice. Laws are written, complaints and arrests are made, and a decision will be made to prosecute - not based on what the AG feels about drug use, but on whether or not there are reasonable prospects of success and there is available and reliable evidence to prove a crime - made a crime by other people - can be proved.

With regard to the Kevin Cooper case Harris has been calling for DNA testing to be allowed in pre-DNA cases since at least 2018. This is an absolute legal minefield that we've dealt with in Australia so presumably it was the same type of minefield back when Harris was a prosecutor.

I don't know much about the other two accusations, but Gabbard isn't exactly going to be singing her praises and providing context in this video given the situation. Hell, Harris straight up calls the dude she eventually ends up running beside a racist at the start of that debate.

Harris has an extremely strong labour relations record from a left leaning point of view and absolutely obliterated the big banks in some consumer protections prosecutions when everyone thought she'd lose. Tulsi is one of my favourites but she has some ordinary votes (IMO) in the past as well.

I really don't get the attacking a prosecutor for prosecuting and doing their job, when it was politicians who wrote the laws. When they've used that experience to then head into politics to try and change things for the better is all I really ask. I guess you could say she asked for it by relying on her prosecutions record and implying she 'changed' things for the better during her tenure, but despite her bluster and despite Gabbard's accusations, prosecutors simply enforce the laws that exist.

Dude, she defied a Supreme Court order to keep non violent offenders behind bars because they were a cheap labour force for the state...
She’s had a great PR team behind her because she’s actually a horrible human.

‘But the federal judicial panel did not take action on other steps it had ordered California to take last February. Those include increasing the sentence reductions minimum-custody inmates can earn for good behavior and participation in rehabilitation and education programs.

Most of those prisoners now work as groundskeepers, janitors and in prison kitchens, with wages that range from 8 cents to 37 cents per hour. Lawyers for Attorney General Kamala Harris had argued in court that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool.

Prisoners’ lawyers countered that the corrections department could hire public employees to do the work.’

Federal judges order California to expand prison releases

Federal judges on Friday ordered California to launch a new parole program that could free more prisoners early, ruling the state had failed to fully implement an order last February intended to reduce unconstitutional crowding.

www.latimes.com

 

[Themanbun]

Dude, she defied a Supreme Court order to keep non violent offenders behind bars because they were a cheap labour force for the state...
She’s had a great PR team behind her because she’s actually a horrible human.

Federal judges order California to expand prison releases

Federal judges on Friday ordered California to launch a new parole program that could free more prisoners early, ruling the state had failed to fully implement an order last February intended to reduce unconstitutional crowding.

www.latimes.com

'she'

Actually reads, 'lawyers for'. Obviously she has responsibility for the happenings in her department, but I guarantee you no one gave two shits about this until they decided they hated her. I'll repeat again: an AG has different priorities and factors to consider than a legislator does.

The hilarious thing is that even way back in 2014 she stated she was shocked at the argument being run and intervened to direct legal counsel not to continue running it.

As I said, I don't agree with everything but I'm not going to sit here and pot Gabbard for all of the votes she's cast which I dislike.

As for the sex offenders getting parole bonuses, for those ones in particular, cry me a river.

 

[DesertRoo]

'she'

Actually reads, 'lawyers for'. Obviously she has responsibility for the happenings in her department, but I guarantee you no one gave two shits about this until they decided they hated her. I'll repeat again: an AG has different priorities and factors to consider than a legislator does.

As I said, I don't agree with everything but I'm not going to sit here and pot Gabbard for all of the votes she's cast which I dislike.

As for the sex offenders getting parole bonuses, for those ones in particular, cry me a river.

You’re right, not many people cared for her until she decided to run for prez on a faux progressive campaign, and she was called out hard..

btw the above didn’t just happen once, it was argued a couple of times, while they tried to keep non violent offenders behind bars.

 

[Themanbun]

This is what I mean by context. Here's an article from 2014. People need to learn how these things actually operate in practice instead of painting Harris as some puppeteer string puller running 50,000 cases a year on her own. Justice Dept. didn't require AG approval prior to running arguments in court.

California AG "Shocked" To Learn Her Office Wanted To Keep Eligible Parolees In Jail To Work

<b>Lawyers for California Attorney General Kamala Harris argued releasing non-violent inmates early would harm efforts to fight California wildfires.</b> Harris told BuzzFeed News she first heard about this when she read it in the paper.

www.google.com

 

[ferball]

A part of your story man, the bravest of souls am sure you're all very proud.
I plan on heading that way when the coast is clear.

He was my nan's older brother, and I think he was her favorite. Maybe he looked after her more than her parents cos she was the youngest of thirteen kids. I dunno.

On the 29th of July 2016 he was KIA, I won't describe the circumstances but I know them, at Pozieres during the ill fated first attack. Anyway her heart was still broken around sixty years later when I was old enough to start understanding that sort of thing. And I'm telling his story for her sake. Lest we forget meant something to her.

 

[ferball]

This is what I mean by context. Here's an article from 2014. People need to learn how these things actually operate in practice instead of painting Harris as some puppeteer string puller running 50,000 cases a year on her own.

California AG "Shocked" To Learn Her Office Wanted To Keep Eligible Parolees In Jail To Work

<b>Lawyers for California Attorney General Kamala Harris argued releasing non-violent inmates early would harm efforts to fight California wildfires.</b> Harris told BuzzFeed News she first heard about this when she read it in the paper.

www.google.com

I'm not a fan of Harris but this is the first I've heard of this.

And frankly I'm shocked. Regardless of her knowledge of what happened its her responsibility.

Why the **** don't they release those prisoners and pay them properly for fighting the fires? "Oh we're broke from the GFC so we'll keep this slave labour force locked up." That would give them a stable reintroduction to society, aid the rehabilitation and give them some actual social credit when they went looking for housing and work. One of the few times I considered going to Cali to help with fires there was a good chance we'd have been involved with fire camp prisoners. They are some of the least dangerous people in the US prison system.

The fact she didn't know is no excuse. She is gonna be the VP with someone who may not make it thru their term. Can she afford to be that unaware of what her subordinates are doing. That was Reagan's excuse for the IranContra scandal.

 

[ferball]

I know. But I don't think it's really in question that a lot of swing voters were put off Harris in particular for the same reasons.

Florida is pretty big on voter suppression too.

 

[Themanbun]

I'm not a fan of Harris but this is the first I've heard of this.

And frankly I'm shocked. Regardless of her knowledge of what happened its her responsibility.

Why the fu** don't they release those prisoners and pay them properly for fighting the fires? "Oh we're broke from the GFC so we'll keep this slave labour force locked up." That would give them a stable reintroduction to society, aid the rehabilitation and give them some actual social credit when they went looking for housing and work. One of the few times I considered going to Cali to help with fires there was a good chance we'd have been involved with fire camp prisoners. They are some of the least dangerous people in the US prison system.

The fact she didn't know is no excuse. She is gonna be the VP with someone who may not make it thru their term. Can she afford to be that unaware of what her subordinates are doing. That was Reagan's excuse for the IranContra scandal.

Trouble is they do not need to notify her of their arguments under Justice Dept policy. We're talking probably one of the biggest departments in the state.

It wasn't just the bushfire argument they ran for what it's worth. They argued that because all the low risk prisoners were the ones actually doing work in the prisons that it would leave them bereft of people to effectively run the prisons. Not an excuse for dragging their feet since they could have just hired people to do it, but I reckon this is something that bounced from Corrections to legal representation, without much heads up going any higher up.

It's just not how things work in practice, and the fact that she intervened after becoming aware and ordering them to abandon an argument mid-case (which they wouldn't have been happy to do, given the costs of litigation) and actually dictated the negotiation that the Supreme Court accepted is actually a positive result for her intervention as AG. That's what they're there for, not to micromanage every single litigation in the Department.

She's establishment and people hate her for it. I get that. There are some legitimately weird things she did such as defending the state's death penalty, whilst simultaneously refusing to use it in a lot of cases and being publicly outspoken against it. But some of the criticisms are absolutely ridiculous and have absolutely no grounding in the role of a State Prosecutor or AG. Say what you want about these places not being run in an ideal way, but I'm not going to crucify someone for operating within a framework and then, once becoming aware, intervening to make it right. I doubt Gabbard or anyone in politics really would be all over every single litigation matter being run if they were in the same position.

 

[DesertRoo]

This is what I mean by context. Here's an article from 2014. People need to learn how these things actually operate in practice instead of painting Harris as some puppeteer string puller running 50,000 cases a year on her own. Justice Dept. didn't require AG approval prior to running arguments in court.

California AG "Shocked" To Learn Her Office Wanted To Keep Eligible Parolees In Jail To Work

<b>Lawyers for California Attorney General Kamala Harris argued releasing non-violent inmates early would harm efforts to fight California wildfires.</b> Harris told BuzzFeed News she first heard about this when she read it in the paper.

www.google.com

Absolutely shocked to be sitting here..

it was a Supreme Court order, saying over crowding prisoners in LA was akin torture, she might not have been across all the cases in LA but I guarantee she was across one involving the Supreme.

 

[Themanbun]

Absolutely shocked to be sitting here..

it was a Supreme Court order, saying over crowding prisoners in LA was akin torture, she might not have been across all the cases in LA but I guarantee she was across one involving the Supreme.

I'd hazard a guess that California's SC would probably have ~10,000 matters filed each year and a decent chunk of those would be relevant to the Justice Dept. Most of those would be disposed of immediately or denied, but we'd expect the AG to be across those too if we're holding them to that standard.

Anyway, as I've said, a fair bit of what Gabbard said should have an asterisk after it, especially considering the debate context (Harris almost straight up abusing her future running mate). I maintain that Harris' appointment would have pacified Bernie a bit and I don't consider him a sell out for that. I also generally gauge people on what they do when they write and vote on laws, not what they did when enforcing them.

 

[ferball]

I'd hazard a guess that California's SC would probably have ~10,000 matters filed each year and a decent chunk of those would be relevant to the Justice Dept. Most of those would be disposed of immediately or denied, but we'd expect the AG to be across those too if we're holding them to that standard.

Except this particular issue is a massive deal in the US in general and in California. I agree with DR - she should have been across it and would be surprised if she wasn't. This would have to be a high priority issue because of its political visibility. Its effectively slavery like so much US prison labour.

The reality is she is no worse than Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson or Truman, or Hilary or McCain. Might even be a little bit better. MMT is gaining a little traction in the Democratic party, she might be open to it. That doesn't make her better than the alternatives like Gabbard. But they are all politicians, its hard to trust any once they get a public name.

 

[DesertRoo]

I'd hazard a guess that California's SC would probably have ~10,000 matters filed each year and a decent chunk of those would be relevant to the Justice Dept. Most of those would be disposed of immediately or denied, but we'd expect the AG to be across those too if we're holding them to that standard.

Anyway, as I've said, a fair bit of what Gabbard said should have an asterisk after it, especially considering the debate context (Harris almost straight up abusing her future running mate). I maintain that Harris' appointment would have pacified Bernie a bit and I don't consider him a sell out for that. I also generally gauge people on what they do when they write and vote on laws, not what they did when enforcing them.

It was a United States Supreme Court order not a Cali one,

Maybe if one of her last acts as AG wasn’t sending back a case to retrail, after having someone locked up falsely, for a couple of decades, I’d cut her some slack.

Wrongfully convicted man labels Kamala Harris an 'opportunist'

Kamala Harris' record as San Francisco District Attorney and California's Attorney General is coming under scrutiny as she prepares to battle for the White House alongside Joe Biden.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Themanbun]

Except this particular issue is a massive deal in the US in general and in California. I agree with DR - she should have been across it and would be surprised if she wasn't. This would have to be a high priority issue because of its political visibility. Its effectively slavery like so much US prison labour.

The reality is she is no worse than Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson or Truman, or Hilary or McCain. Might even be a little bit better. MMT is gaining a little traction in the Democratic party, she might be open to it. That doesn't make her better than the alternatives like Gabbard. But they are all politicians, its hard to trust any once they get a public name.

Her reaction had 1-2 articles written on it at the time. It was not as huge as you're making out.

Gabbard didn't even bother with an IR platform (I suspect she knew a lot of the positive press she got from conservatives would have died). Foreign policy only gets you so far.

 

[Themanbun]

It was a United States Supreme Court order not a Cali one,

Maybe if one of her last acts as AG wasn’t sending back a case to retrail, after having someone locked up falsely, for a couple of decades, I’d cut her some slack.

Wrongfully convicted man labels Kamala Harris an 'opportunist'

Kamala Harris' record as San Francisco District Attorney and California's Attorney General is coming under scrutiny as she prepares to battle for the White House alongside Joe Biden.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Shit decision in this case (and she had a few doozies during her DA days), but she brought the felony conviction rate up by something like 20-25 per cent compared to her predecessor. That means that in general the prosecutions she brought had more available and reliable evidence to secure a conviction, suggesting that compared to those before her, she was far more considered in which cases to bring to trial and which not to. After her, Gascon improved it by a further 7-8 per cent.

Again, not perfect, and even Gascon after her said they disagreed with the judge freeing Conley. It's easy to latch onto one decision, especially in criminal prosecutions because this seriously affects people's lives, but her overall numbers suggest a far more considered approach (e.g. not bringing cases with weak evidence to trial) to litigation than whatever came before her.

 

[ferball]

Her reaction had 1-2 articles written on it at the time. It was not as huge as you're making out.

Gabbard didn't even bother with an IR platform (I suspect she knew a lot of the positive press she got from conservatives would have died). Foreign policy only gets you so far.

It (conditions in Cali p[risons) was a massive deal among people I knew in the US who worked with prisoners rights and stuff.

I'm not that big a fan of Gabbard to be honest either. She supports Modi who is a piece of shit. And as flawed as Bernie is at least he got some money for poor people into that legislation a few months ago. Everything has more nuance than we ever get to recognise online.

 

[Agenda 21]

Woman climbs safety barrier and ignores warning signs at Boroka lookout in the Grampians for a selfie and plunges 80 metres to her death leaving behind husband and two kids who witnessed the fall.

Sheer stupidity. Sorry.

100% agree.

Absolute tragedy, nonetheless.

 

[Shermanator]

Anyone else heard the ‘rumour’ about a certain Premiership Head Coach’s late night rendezvous’ without the Mrs or is this old news already?

 

[gokangas]

Anyone else heard the ‘rumour’ about a certain Premiership Head Coach’s late night rendezvous’ without the Mrs or is this old news already?

Do tell.

 

[Shermanator]

Do tell.

If legit, there could be a Gale forced wind through the place..

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

If legit, there could be a Gale forced wind through the place..

Christ the irony if true, hope some brave journo asks him about Mrs Hardwick at his first presser of 21. Even better if they've just lost to the baggers!