Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[CharlieMortdecai]

I remember that interview with Abigail. It’s about young teenage girls in particular becoming trans in clusters, or friendship groups and then getting to about their 20’s and trying to transition back. Obviously a pretty controversial topic.

That interview with Peterson was so bad. Honestly don’t know what people see in him. Anyway, Joe was actually quoting Douglas Murray who has studied the fall of societies and found one thing they all had in common close to the end was that they became obsessed with gender…or something like that anyway.

Yeah the planet of the apes thing is bad. Doesn’t matter if he was in mushrooms. He admitted it was wrong and deleted the episode when he listened back but someone saved it.

I don't think Murray has studied the fall of societies in any great depth - his degree is in English, and as far as I can tell he hasn't done any further study. He is an editor at The Spectator (British) and all his books are on the kind of push-button issues conservatives love - Islam, immigration, the decline of European enlightenment values, and of course gender and identity politics. I could not find a review of his book in any historical journals, and the reviews I read made no mention of this end-of-empire thesis. I think it may well have been simply an off-the-cuff remark he made in his interview with Rogan, and it's not quite clear whether they are saying that an obsession with gender and sexuality was a cause or effect of the end of empire. Ancient history is not really my thing, but I don't think any serious historians today subscribe to the theory that decadence was a major factor in the decline of the (Western) Roman empire. My understanding is that modern historiography tends to emphasise continuity with the early middle ages, rather than any clear break and collapse.

Anyway, from the reviews I read this seems like a good summary of his arguments (despite the fact he is only in his early 40s):

Viewed as an historical document, The Madness of Crowds is a push-back (sometimes hurt, sometimes simply cantankerous) by these old-school liberals against a “woke” movement that now sees them as part of the problem rather than part of the solution. There is a lot of talk of the new cultural “tripwires” which can unexpectedly cause the bien pensants—people accustomed to being revered as “good”—to fall flat on their faces ... Many who teach in universities have long complained about the political apathy of students, relative to the good old days of the 1960s. Now that at least part of the student body is on the march again, it is naive to think their new heroes would be lions of an aging liberal establishment. Many of these lions were indeed the stars of a previous cultural revolution, so are left licking their wounds in bewilderment when now denounced as reactionaries.

He has plenty of supporters for his views (generally to be found in other conservative publications), but the impression I get is that his argument lacks nuance - Murray's view seems to be that Western societies have achieved equality for all and we are now tipping the scales too far the other way. I think there are some legitimate issues with "cancel culture", where it doesn't allow space for forgiveness, growth and change, but the instances of that are far rarer then its critics would have you believe.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Here’s her book

Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our…

Irreversible Damage is an exploration of a mystery: Why…

www.goodreads.com

Did you read the review on there by "Sleepless Dreamer"? That seems a fairly balanced critique of the book. I think it's been well-publicised that the study central to her thesis has been discredited. There's a good article here with references about the various factual errors in the book: New Book “Irreversible Damage” Is Full of Misinformation

 

[travelli]

For library lovers like travelli somebody has written a history of public libraries, who I heard interviewed on the radio Saturday morning: The chequered history of great public libraries

The history of the public library is not so much rooted in the great libraries of the ancient and medieval world, but rather in subscription book lending services that appeared in the US in the 19th century. They didn't go into it, but I believe in the Australian context the history can be traced to the Mechanics Institutes that appeared in suburbs and small towns around the same time.

Hey, thanks for that. I reckon they will hang in there. It seems that as the middle class gets more self sufficient, they forget that there are people who need what public libraries bring. And research libraries will always have a place.

 

[ferball]

I will always stick up for people I like.

2). Ghislaine Maxwell and the lack of interest in who the clients were.

Yeah i know, good on you.

I will always stick up for people I like.

2). Ghislaine Maxwell and the lack of interest in who the clients were.

Its marketing. i dunno if Young was in on it to begin with, probably not. They probably took advantage of his annoyance to create a publicity stunt and sold it to Amazon. Young probably doesn't understand what he's doing ... or he's a bigger sellout.

Not Maxwell. But yes its an interesting phenomenon.

Here's a list of some of the many stories we never hear about because the MSMs business model is fake garbage and manufactured bullshit like the pile on Rogan:

Google and youtube continue to demonetise and destroy independent media organisations. Like Rogan but with substance and usually anti-corporate anti corruption and pro worker, left leaning organisations have been cancelled by Youtube and Google for years. I can provide a list if anyone gives a crap.

There is a war of sorts between Big Pharma Agriculture and networks of small farmers across the world that's been goping on for decades. the latest front in that war is the success of international seed saver networks trying to maintain access to freely distributed, patent (and therefore cost) free open polinated seeds for small farmers despite regulatory and financial hurdles being put in their way. Its called the "seed sovereignty" movement. No prizes for guessing whose side Bill Gates is on.

The Amazon is still being destroyed all these decades later. Meanwhile the other amazon, the crap one that adds plastic to the world not Oxygen, is going great guns.

US companies spend $350M per year paying union avoidance companies to undermine workers attempts to unionise and collectively bargain or get better wages and conditions. SO US companies are underpaying workers by more than $350M per year. US governments also spend money on anti union organisations.

There are plenty more where they came from.

It shits me to tears that people give a **** what Rogan said a decade ago and coiuldn't give a rats about those things or other stuff.

Like that the Hague's anti Child Abduction Treaty actually keeps more children in abusive situations with abusive family than it keeps safe by preventing mothers from taking their kids across international borders to help them escape abusive family members.

 

[ferball]

Pretty compelling.

Maybe. Superpacs are all over US politics. I very much doubt they want to cancel Rogan as a show of power. That is deluded thinking from people who think culture wars on twitter matter.

 

[Val Keating]

Yeah i know, good on you.



Its marketing. i dunno if Young was in on it to begin with, probably not. They probably took advantage of his annoyance to create a publicity stunt and sold it to Amazon. Young probably doesn't understand what he's doing ... or he's a bigger sellout.

Not Maxwell. But yes its an interesting phenomenon.

Here's a list of some of the many stories we never hear about because the MSMs business model is fake garbage and manufactured bullshit like the pile on Rogan:

Google and youtube continue to demonetise and destroy independent media organisations. Like Rogan but with substance and usually anti-corporate anti corruption and pro worker, left leaning organisations have been cancelled by Youtube and Google for years. I can provide a list if anyone gives a crap.

There is a war of sorts between Big Pharma Agriculture and networks of small farmers across the world that's been goping on for decades. the latest front in that war is the success of international seed saver networks trying to maintain access to freely distributed, patent (and therefore cost) free open polinated seeds for small farmers despite regulatory and financial hurdles being put in their way. Its called the "seed sovereignty" movement. No prizes for guessing whose side Bill Gates is on.

The Amazon is still being destroyed all these decades later. Meanwhile the other amazon, the crap one that adds plastic to the world not Oxygen, is going great guns.

US companies spend $350M per year paying union avoidance companies to undermine workers attempts to unionise and collectively bargain or get better wages and conditions. SO US companies are underpaying workers by more than $350M per year. US governments also spend money on anti union organisations.

There are plenty more where they came from.

It shits me to tears that people give a fu** what Rogan said a decade ago and coiuldn't give a rats about those things or other stuff.

Like that the Hague's anti Child Abduction Treaty actually keeps more children in abusive situations with abusive family than it keeps safe by preventing mothers from taking their kids across international borders to help them escape abusive family members.

Yeah that’s a lot.

People are saying that the fund that owns Young’s music is also heavily invested in Amazon. If there’s any truth to that the internet sleuths will find it.

 

[ferball]

Did the stock market just collapse?

Did facebook just lose $200 billion in value?

Dunno but Neil Old hate Ronnie Rogan and that's all that matters.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Like that the Hague's anti Child Abduction Treaty actually keeps more children in abusive situations with abusive family than it keeps safe by preventing mothers from taking their kids across international borders to help them escape abusive family members.

Sorry Ferbs, I’m struggling to keep up with your analogy.

Are you talking about the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction?

How exactly does it keep more kids in abusive situations?

 

[ferball]

Yeah that’s a lot.

People are saying that the fund that owns Young’s music is also heavily invested in Amazon. If there’s any truth to that the internet sleuths will find it.

Everything owns everything else.

Amazon and Spotify probably own signifcant shares in each other. Or the people companies that own them do.

But there is this:

Blackstone strikes $18.7B pact to get into business with Amazon | PitchBook

A global private equity giant will soon be in business with a global ecommerce giant.

pitchbook.com

 

[Val Keating]

Maybe. Superpacs are all over US politics. I very much doubt they want to cancel Rogan as a show of power. That is deluded thinking from people who think culture wars on twitter matter.

Not really. Have you seen the graph of his show up against all the mainstream news top shows? He absolutely dwarfs them. People are sick of fake curated crap. Joes not popular because he’s perfect, far from it. He’s popular because he’s genuine.

Politicians use the media to control the narrative. They can no longer do that because people don’t trust them.

That’s per episode. Incredible really.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Like that the Hague's anti Child Abduction Treaty actually keeps more children in abusive situations with abusive family than it keeps safe by preventing mothers from taking their kids across international borders to help them escape abusive family members.

That has receive mainstream media coverage: Hannah's violent ex is trapping her in Australia, and a 'good law gone bad' is allowing it

There also is no simple solution. Clearly the convention needs updating, but the bigger issue is the lack of support for people in abusive situations, especially temporary residents.

EDIT: Makeshift Park See the article linked above

 

[ferball]

Sorry Ferbs, I’m struggling to keep up with your analogy.

Are you talking about the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction?

How exactly does it keep more kids in abusive situations?

Look it started out well and with the best of intentions but now its part of the International War on Women.

(That's right kiddies, while Clemantine Ford is busy being mean to snowflakes the rates of murder and general violence against women are climbing across the world. You might have thought that was just something that happened here after all those politicians talked about murdering Julia Gillard and no one told them to stop being violent campaigners. But no it happens everywhere increasingly these days.)

This article is a good place to start:

Treaty Created to Stop Child Abductions Could Now Be Protecting Abusers

The Hague Convention was created to protect children from abductions, but abusers can sometimes use it to regain custody of the children, and regain power over their victims.

whowhatwhy.org

 

[ferball]

That has receive mainstream media coverage: Hannah's violent ex is trapping her in Australia, and a 'good law gone bad' is allowing it

There also is no simple solution. Clearly the convention needs updating, but the bigger issue is the lack of support for people in abusive situations, especially temporary residents.

You've spent more time talking about Joe Rogan than about that.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

You've spent more time talking about Joe Rogan than about that.

I've actually spent very little time talking about Joe Rogan per se. I've spent more time talking about the role of comedians, transphobia and the "fall" of the Roman Empire. Issues tangential to Rogan and far more interesting than him. I actually know very little about him or what he does.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

Maybe. Superpacs are all over US politics. I very much doubt they want to cancel Rogan as a show of power. That is deluded thinking from people who think culture wars on twitter matter.

Pretty naive to think it doesn't. Rogan has a target on his head from mainstream media and they've been waiting for this moment for some time. There is also an element that would be worried that he might back a political party in the future and sway votes.

The trump reply people made 100's of thousands. There are a lot of groups that want to be the next 'Lincoln project' swinging their dick around hoping to get big funding so they create narratives.

Not to mention the next gem are looking to twitter and insta for news.

 

[ferball]

And I'm not having a go at you Charlie, i'm just pointing it out. if you're engaged with modern media it would be hard not to do what you did.

 

[ferball]

I've actually spent very little time talking about Joe Rogan per se. I've spent more time talking about the role of comedians, transphobia and the "fall" of the Roman Empire. Issues tangential to Rogan and far more interesting than him. I actually know very little about him or what he does.

Still more time than that tho.

Like I said its not you, its how the discussions available to us are framed and controlled.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

You've spent more time talking about Joe Rogan than about that.

Also I read that article back in October 2020 when it was published. If I'd have been in this thread at that time I would have been glad to discuss it

 

[ferball]

Pretty naive to think it doesn't. Rogan has a target on his head from mainstream media and they've been waiting for this moment for some time. There is also an element that would be worried that he might back a political party in the future and sway votes.

The trump reply people made 100's of thousands. There are a lot of groups that want to be the next 'Lincoln project' swinging their dick around hoping to get big funding so they create narratives.

Not to mention the next gem are looking to twitter and insta for news.

Pretty niave to think it does. Its a distraction while the important stuff happens elsewhere.

 

[ferball]

Also I read that article back in October 2020 when it was published. If I'd have been in this thread at that time I would have been glad to discuss it

What can we do about it?

 

[Val Keating]

Pretty niave to think it does. Its a distraction while the important stuff happens elsewhere.

They’re about to go into campaign season. Could have something to do with it.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Still more time than that tho.

Like I said its not you, its how the discussions available to us are framed and controlled.

Well, go on change the framing. I was really just prompted by VK posting that tweet about comedian's role being to question authority.

Prompt me to discuss something else. Give me the list of de-platformed media organisations and why I should care. (That last sounds more aggressive than intended, but you know what I mean. I'm quite certain I should care)

 

[Makeshift Park]

That has receive mainstream media coverage: Hannah's violent ex is trapping her in Australia, and a 'good law gone bad' is allowing it

There also is no simple solution. Clearly the convention needs updating, but the bigger issue is the lack of support for people in abusive situations, especially temporary residents.

EDIT: Makeshift Park See the article linked above

Gee. I had no idea. Thanks for the link. I’m actually going to look into this further tomorrow.

What’s funny is that when I joined this site checks date about six months ago, not for a second did I think it’d be a platform for discovering hitherto unknown areas of international jurisprudence.

This forum is wild.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

Pretty niave to think it does. Its a distraction while the important stuff happens elsewhere.

Yes yes blah blah big picture. Of course there is always bigger stuff going on but to brush this off as nothing is pretty short sighted. As Val highlighted...rogan gets over 10M views/listens an episode. Compare that to CNN losing 90% of its viewers in a year. MSM is in trouble. They can't paint narratives and distract people if people keep dropping off and look elsewhere. The evidence is there: why would 3 brothers have so much interest in Rogan...they aren't 3 joe blows either...they have a lot of influence.

 

[Ligma]

Gee. I had no idea. Thanks for the link. I’m actually going to look into this further tomorrow.

What’s funny is that when I joined this site checks date about six months ago, not for a second did I think it’d be a platform for discovering hitherto unknown areas of international jurisprudence.

This forum is wild.

No offence I thought u were here for like a decade