Ratten and Knights. Who is under most pressure?

[Jamie007]

It's all about having cofidence in our draftees. We have it. We have addressed alot of areas in the past few drafts and fully expect to start seeing the results. As may ant club with its draftees. Just because the names are not recognizable to opposition supporters, does not mean much. Just look at Brisbanes latest offerings last year, that came on all of a sudden and impressed. Or Collingwoods "no - name" youngsters who came along in leaps and bounds last year also. We have confidence because we have watched them mature, noticing their fitness, weight, times improve constantly. Watchng what they do at Bendigo etc. Just as I am sure you do with your Richmond kids, who I can't rate because I don't know them well enough.

Self Belief and Unity bring results. .

I was at Optus oval before Christmas and it just happened that essendon started training..I stayed and watched.. You may have a lot of faith in yr draftees, but one thing was for sure Jobe Watson and Winderlich cant hit the side of a barn with their foot skills and these are players who need to really step up... All you could hear after every time they went to pass to a leading player (after it sailed 3 meters over their head) was "agggggggggghhhhhhh" fom both players.. Must have heard it atleast 20 times from Jobe.. Gee it was funny.

COnfidence in your draftees is fine.. Expecting them to make such a big impact in 2 years is a bit unrealistic.. But you are one Essendon Supporter who does make some sense.

 

[iRemember87]

Might pay to have another read as to who said what.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/knights-looks-to-the-stars/2008/02/04/1202090323815.html

So he didn't "declare" we can win 12 games, but has said we are aiming to play finals footy.

Aiming at something and declaring something, are vastly different.

OK, so the egg is on Lloyds face....thats good, i dislike him more, pansy!!

 

[OB1]

I will reverse the question then... How do you know Hardwick was wrong...
And to the others, dont worry.. Boards dont always get everything right,
I know that for sure.. Thats why the current Essendon board certainly wont be the last board to be voted out for making silly mistakes..

Here's a question for you. How the hell would you or any other zero on this board know what Hardwick even said & presented or the reasons why the board chose Knights? You're trying to impose a judgement based on something you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[OB1]

I've already been through this with them. Apparently their board is incapable of making mistakes

No, what all Essendon supporters are saying is that WE get to decide IF they have made a mistake. Not some preteen tools on BF who think they can make a judgement before a ball has even been bounced.

 

[Merv]

OK, so the egg is on Lloyds face....thats good, i dislike him more, pansy!!

That depends on how you look at it.

I would say the egg is on your face for being wrong, once again.

Of course you have made a habit of it in this thread, so i suppose you will probably make an omelet.

 

[Donstuie]

No, what all Essendon supporters are saying is that WE get to decide IF they have made a mistake. Not some preteen tools on BF who think they can make a judgement before a ball has even been bounced.

Learn something from one of your own colleagues

No, I agree. The board did not handle the whole Sheedy or picking a replacement well at all, that is for certain.

Well quite frankly, I was embarassed by the way things went down.

 

[Big John]

I think Knights would be under a lot more pressure from bomber fans if he said he wasn't aiming to play finals.

 

[DarthTed]

Because they have appointed a coach who has told them that they can perform a lot better than what they really can. He sucked them in. They fell for it and will be made to look like geese especially when supporters turn.
He not only has built the boards hopes, he has built the supporters hopes up. The board clearly dont know where Essendon are at if they beleive they can win 12 games.. He told them what they wanted to hear.. Instead of the facts.. (which are bottom 4 material..)

And you know that's what he told the board (and what they based the decision on) how?

 

[DarthTed]

Put it this way, he would make a good real estate agent.. Tell the owner what they want to hear to get the listing...
If the owner is stupid enough to go with the one who tells them what they want to hear than instead of the truth then they get what they deserved.. Which you will..

Doesnt sound stupid to me..

He told them that their list was in a much better postiton than what it is.
Hardwick was always going to make more changes and said it would take longer.. They were just about to appoint him until the final day when Knights came along and told them this crap.

How about giving yr reason..
Or you can keep just saying I sound stupid..

Can you prove any of that?

 

[OB1]

Learn something from one of your own colleagues

Did you even read my post? What am I supposed to learn from blow hard, that the removing of Sheedy wasn't handled as well as we'd hoped. Is that even in dispute? There is no doubt that it should have been done with more tact & the fact that it was leaked before the official announcement is an inditement on our board. You will get no arguements from me & most Bombers that we would have liked it to have gone smoother. What I won't cop however is that the process to find a replacement was done poorly & I certainly won't cop any judgements on the outcome before Knights is at least given some time to prove his worth. How the hell can you or anyone else say the board has made a mistake in appointing Knights at this early stage. Even if we don't perform that well this year then how can you conclude that Hardwick would have been a better option? All we really know at this point is that the board undertook a concise review of all available options & came to a decission that Knights was the best candidate. We could have just appointed a favourite son, which would have been an easier decission but not neccesarily the right one. I'm certainly in no position to say Knight will definately be better than coach than Hardwick might have been but unless you have a crystal ball then nobody can pass judgement either way.
I could be of the belief that say Bond (or Hardwick for that matter) would have been better for Carlton than Ratten. I could also belive that Carlton simply took the easy road & appointed a past player rather than look at other options. Does that make the appointment of Ratten a mistake? As I said its up to Essendon supporters & in particular members to decide if the board has made mistakes & if they need replacing.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This is a trick question isn't it?
The obvious answer is Wallace.

 

[Donstuie]

Did you even read my post? What am I supposed to learn from blow hard, that the removing of Sheedy wasn't handled as well as we'd hoped. Is that even in dispute? There is no doubt that it should have been done with more tact & the fact that it was leaked before the official announcement is an inditement on our board. You will get no arguements from me & most Bombers that we would have liked it to have gone smoother.

That's all I've been talking about, genius. So you admit your board made a mistake? Congratulations

As for the process to put Knights in place, you have your feelings on it, and I (along with more than a few non-Essendon people, who are allowed to voice an opinion despite what you think) have mine. No matter what I say I won't convince you that it was handled poorly irrespective of what results Knights reaps, just like you'll never convince me that you're not in denial. Such is life.

 

[OB1]

That's all I've been talking about, genius. So you admit your board made a mistake? Congratulations

Not real quick are you sport? The board made several mistakes in the way they handled Sheedy's departure (as was covered ad-nauseum at the time)but this thread & your posts have been about the appointment of Knights. As I keep saying, you are in no possition to make any judgements on the merits of that appointment or the process that led to it. Just as I'm in no position to conclude that appointing Ratten was a mistake by Carlton.

As for the process to put Knights in place, you have your feelings on it, and I (along with more than a few non-Essendon people, who are allowed to voice an opinion despite what you think) have mine. No matter what I say I won't convince you that it was handled poorly irrespective of what results Knights reaps, just like you'll never convince me that you're not in denial. Such is life.

Its not a matter of opinons. The facts are you have absolutely no idea what the process even was. You're basing your judgements on some rumour that Hardwick may have rated our list differently to Knights. How exactly do you think the process of finding a new coach should have been done differently - should we have just handed it to an ex-player & be done with it or is it more prudent to look at all options? Your guessing!
It should be pretty obvious to even the most bitter Carlton supporter that both our clubs new coaches have been appointed because our boards believe they are the best people for the job. Both could turn out to be inspired choices & both could be monumental mistakes. I'm certainly not passing any final judgements on Ratten (dispite his poor start) so why do you feel the need to pass judgement on Knights before he's even coached a game?

 

[Tigersman]

It's all about having cofidence in our draftees. We have it. We have addressed alot of areas in the past few drafts and fully expect to start seeing the results. As may ant club with its draftees. Just because the names are not recognizable to opposition supporters, does not mean much. Just look at Brisbanes latest offerings last year, that came on all of a sudden and impressed. Or Collingwoods "no - name" youngsters who came along in leaps and bounds last year also. We have confidence because we have watched them mature, noticing their fitness, weight, times improve constantly. Watchng what they do at Bendigo etc. Just as I am sure you do with your Richmond kids, who I can't rate because I don't know them well enough.

Self Belief and Unity bring results. .

Fair enough, I look forward to seeing these "no names" come on this year then.
I just think that for Knights to come in and say this list is good enough to play finals left himself with nowhere to go if things dont fall his way. Ratten can afford one or two years without finals with no real pressure.

Bombers fans arent used to long periods without success so it will be interesting to see the reaction if all doesnt go as Knights seems to think it will.

 

[Ziltoid]

Surely Ratten has to produce some sort of result this year, another year of being a celler dweller would not, I assume, be expected from the Carlton fans. If i was a Carlton fan, i would want to see significant improve in the team this. This 'Oh Ratten has 2 years to prove it, while Knights has this year to prove it' is a cop out. Both need to perform. Given Carlton's track record in the past few years, they are surely due with all the high draft picks 'finally' coming through.
However Knights is under just as much but i would think that the board would give him a year at least to introduce young players and a new game plan, and to be as successful as he hopes to be.

That's my 2 cents on it anyway..

 

[iRemember87]

That depends on how you look at it.

I would say the egg is on your face for being wrong, once again.

Of course you have made a habit of it in this thread, so i suppose you will probably make an omelet.

The only thing i was wrong about on this thread is it was Lloyd and not The Albino.

The other things like Essendon have an aging list, nothing to prove my point wrong when all you old players are in your best 22 and you have no mid age talent coming through.

Knight being under more pressure, well that is debatable.

Essendon struggling without Hird, that is correct.

The egg will still be on Lloyds face when you take the spoon with less than 4 wins....

 

[Merv]

The other things like Essendon have an aging list, nothing to prove my point wrong when all you old players are in your best 22 and you have no mid age talent coming through.

Knight being under more pressure, well that is debatable.

I can see that this is pointless.
Even though it has been pointed out to you numerous times that you are wrong you continue to ramble on with your incorrect rubbish.

Good bye

 

[iRemember87]

I can see that this is pointless.
Even though it has been pointed out to you numerous times that you are wrong you continue to ramble on with your incorrect rubbish.

Good bye

Pointed out that i'm wrong about my assessment on Essendon. WOW!!!

But at the end of the day its my opinion.

And if you are referring to the RFC thing about their finals, well that wasn't mistake, that was a point to reflect their previous 28 years of failure.

But again, enjoy the spoon in 2008, that aging list won't get you off the bottom this year!!!

 

[Pumpa35]

Knights is under more pressure. Carlton fans know their list is complete crap, and if the 08 lot fails then Judd will cop it. Essendon fans are still deluded into thinking they have a flag-winning list, they will go feral when they discover how many years they need to spend in the wilderness.

History shows you've been enjoying the wilderness a little longer than we have.

The Dons and Hawks could be due for a repeat of the 80's, albeit we may be a year or two behind in players development.

Both Knights and Ratten will do well, i know many at EFC are happy with Knights and for those who think Knights in deluding himself for wanting to play finals explain why IMO every player and every coach from every league wants to play finals footy, its why we play the game.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

you gotta wonder, where's Dean Bailey in this debate?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

you gotta wonder, where's Dean Bailey in this debate?

Good point.

But nobody expects Melbourne to achieve anything this year.

Carlton expect massive improvement after years of incompetence, and Essendon expect to make the finals despite being carried by Dads Army. Thats the difference.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Good point.

But nobody expects Melbourne to achieve anything this year.

Carlton expect massive improvement after years of incompetence, and Essendon expect to make the finals despite being carried by Dads Army. Thats the difference.

fair enough. He sure is flying under the BF radar though.

Having said that, this thread isn't devoted to him; but maybe the OP should have added him, as it appears the criteria is Brand New coaches - given that common sense says out of all the coaches in the league (bar maybe Matthews and a couple of others) Knights & Rattan would be under the least pressure

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Nobody cares about Melbourne - they always fly under the radar.

 

[DaSawx]

Essendon expect to make the finals despite being carried by Dads Army. Thats the difference.

Aiming and expecting are 2 different things

 

[Jamie007]

Aiming and expecting are 2 different things

Angus Monfries said on radio yesterday "we expect to make the finals and would be disappointed if we dont".

So dont tell me now they are aiming for the finals.. The whole team is expecting to play finals..

And dont come out and say "oh all teams say that", because they dont...

Good luck with that attempt of miracle performing