Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[COBALT BLUE]

Why are we playing Doc?

He’s barely VFL level.

Cause there is noooo depth.....i have not seen a deep and great Carlton list for ?????? .......yep depth drop is bad...can we raid GWS again for 3or4 A grads players?..........then we good.....cause we are short

 

[The Sultan]

Missing two key forwards
Missed some easy shots
Three posters
20 points loss, could’ve been worse

 

[agro]

For 20 years we’ve had to put up either Smarmey Hodge, the shit eating grin of Mitchell and Gunston putting us to the sword - it’s galling.

 

[Accidental genius]

Voss presser

 

[Blueballs38]

If the MC had any balls, they'd drop Gov. Bloke gives us nothing.

Would prefer to see us persist with Youngy - he looked great tonight and in the preseason as well.

**** no, get rid of both of them. Young is a deer in headlights and shouldn’t be on an AFL list. McGovern is a merc and completely conditional

 

[tarczonandjane]

Hawthorn are a serious football club. We are not.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Its called being weak to pressure. Laughable to suggest a coach would literally instruct a player to panic kick out of defence. Such an observation is what I'd expect from a grade schooler.

When you're trying to defend and feel like you're about to be tackled, all game plan goes out the window in a player's mind and they think "I have to kick the ball out asap!" Its as simple as that.

1/3 of our list is B-graders and another 1/3 is C-graders. Hawthorn have zero C-graders; everyone in that squad knows they can depend on each other. Meanwhile with us, someone like Cerra might have the ball in defence in a high pressure situation, but after seeing guys like Haynes, Motlop, Fogarty, Docherty, Cottrell, Acres and co fumbling, dropping marks, getting caught unaware, being too slow to react etc, it creates an overarching pressure across the whole team. In the end, even a good player like Cerra can make a dumb kick out of defence under these circumstances.

You ignored my post and wrote a post about something else.

Whether it is by design or not the long bomb into forward 50 is done by the whole team. Not just 3 or 4 "dumb" players.

And whether it is game plan or not if the coach can't stop the team doing it he is not an effective coach. He's just a spectator with a good seat.

 

[mikey83]

I would think, if the Carlton players had the licence to kick into the centre of the ground or at least try and change angles with a kick a bit, we’d have seen someone attempt it by this point.

Instead it’s kick in a straight line down one wing, and if that doesn’t work maybe slowly switch across and try to kick in a straight line down the other wing.

And what would happen if they started kicking down the middle and getting easily intercepted by Barass? You'd be potting the skill level.

Kicking aggressively works when you have players who can actually kick. When you have players like Battle, Dambrosio, Weddle, Among, and a raft of players who can both run and kick, it makes sense. When you have players like Lewis Young, Mitch McGovern, Lachie Cowan and Nick Haynes, chances are it won't work. Players tend to only go for aggressive kicks if they know they can connect them.

 

[Kernafides]

We broke their system for most of the game. Sometimes you just have to concede a team is better. I bet most people sinking the boot were surprised we were as close as we were. We had our chances.

 

[Blueballs38]

Voss presser

I’m not going to listen to it. He will roll out the same shithouse tripe and nothing will be done. I’m beginning to seriously dislike the w***er

 

[Blue Ratts]

Curnow obviously not ready, once the ball got to ground, he couldn't second effort it. Kemp can't do it without the 2 big forwards. Jsos would have been good if kicked accurately ,but he's been trained in defense. He could have dished off a certain goal if turned around though. Doc, I'm sorry but you look slow, I do love your heart though. Thought Motlop showed a bit, needs a few crafty smalls along side him. Williams kicked 2 which is a good reward but didn't pressure enough at times. Fog, not enough. Tried and failed

 

[Blueballs38]

We broke their system for most of the game. Sometimes you just have to concede a team is better. I bet most people sinking the boot were surprised we were as close as we were. We had our chances.

I thought we would lose by at least 40 pts so yeah

 

[Flaggers22]

The list has holes but so does the Hawks list and Pies list.

Voss is the problem.

You've hit the nail on the head. Most premiers in recent history have had list holes, Melbourne in '21 with their key forwards and one paced midfield, Geelong in '22 with their midfield and rucks, Collingwood in '23 with their key position players and inside mids. We have 8 All Australians on our list (6 still in their prime), De Koning will likely make it 9 by the end of the year, and yet we look like a bottom 4 team. Every gameplan has a counter, and yes "Hokball" is in vogue right now, but let's not pretend that it is the only way to play modern football. It is Voss' job to work out how to prevent the slingshot goals from D50 and clean up our entry inside 50. I've seen no intent to address this. We could stop selecting the role players who throw it on the boot without thought (Acres, Docherty, Cottrell, Fogarty, Hewett, Motlop). Or we could possess the ball more and methodically break down the zone à la Fremantle. To me it seems like most of the players are impatient, if an uncontested target doesn't immediately materialise, they'll bomb the ball down the line or to the hotspot. If we fail to address these issues, then we'll be wasting the nucleus of a fantastic list.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Hawthorn are a serious football club. We are not.

We're not serious people.

 

[thechamps2025]

Did l hear Voss once say there was no time to work on skills? After tonight we can have a system but if you can't hit a target like the Hawks did no system will work. We cannot hit targets 56,percent by foot. Our biggest possession winners around 50. Not quiet top 8 material.

 

[agro]

We broke their system for most of the game. Sometimes you just have to concede a team is better. I bet most people sinking the boot were surprised we were as close as we were. We had our chances.

Yep I concede this team off the back of a three year rebuild is better than us off the back of a 10 year 66 game reset.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Curnow obviously not ready, once the ball got to ground, he couldn't second effort it.

In all seriousness that's how he usually plays so genuinely hard to tell....

 

[dragonsblues]

I won’t hear Docherty slander on here. He has barely played in 18 months. Give him some time

 

[Gethelred]

Please Elijah - hurry back!

Bring Boyd in for god sake.

I really wish people - the people who are lamenting the quality of our disposal - realise that, of the team that took to the field tonight, the best kick out there was Ollie Hollands.

Let that sink in.

Over the past few years, it's been Newman, Boyd, daylight, then Saad, Williams, Charlie, Cripps (when he lowers his eyes) and Jack. Elijah has played one season, but his ability to find space when there isn't any and a target under pressure is exceptional.

It's rarely as bad as it seems, and right now it seems pretty bad. But this sport is littered with examples of where teams have come from to achieve through adversity. We'll see.

 

[thechamps2025]

T o add Vosss pressor sees no issue other than taking our moments. sees no issue with Curnow l still don't know why he didn't put him deep. Lost me this guy

 

[teddy-hopkins]

If the MC had any balls, they'd drop Gov. Bloke gives us nothing.

Would prefer to see us persist with Youngy - he looked great tonight and in the preseason as well.

Young?

Did you like that bit where he had an uncontested chestmark on the wing had just stood there and punched it over the line instead? Or when he got touched in the chest by Chol in the first quarter and fell over? Or when he got tapped on the back by Chol and fell over? both times gifting a simple mark and shot at goal.

Or maybe you're a fan of how when he does get the ball in the back line he stands there frozen with panic all over his face and only looks in one direction straight down the line? Doesn't even look to see if there is a short option or a switch on as he knows he could stuff the kick so he doesn't even look for it.

He is a panic merchant.

 

[Wickzki]

We've had horrible forwards 50 entries and a lack of pace for years, how has it not been addressed?

Agresta'd Development.

List Manager

February 2018 to June 2020

National Recruiting Manager

June 2020 to current.

Seems about the same time we've been crying about the same issues.

The loss of jagga is showing. He does what others can’t do

To expect a first-year player to be the cure-all solution to our list problems - that have existed for years - demonstrates how absolutely abysmal our list management and recruiting has been.

Inexcusable.

 

[jj1978]

Voss agitated at the media…

 

[azlou]

These guys aren't kids though. They are elite professionals. If they can't handle a spray there is something wront.

It might be wront but it

These guys aren't kids though. They are elite professionals. If they can't handle a spray there is something wront.

Doesn’t matter how wront it is it matters if it gets results it might make feel like you’ve released some energy but the results are usually counter to the outcome you won’t

 

[thechamps2025]

I won’t hear Docherty slander on here. He has barely played in 18 months. Give him some time

He's had a preseason l think time has caught up with him but doesn't help him playing everywhere.