Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[Sharks On A Plane]

I won’t hear Docherty slander on here. He has barely played in 18 months. Give him some time

It's no slight on him, it's the match committee. Docherty should not be playing AFL football. If he wants to keep playing to find form it has to be in the VFL, it is genuinely disgusting that he is being picked.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Its called being weak to pressure. Laughable to suggest a coach would literally instruct a player to panic kick out of defence. Such an observation is what I'd expect from a grade schooler.

When you're trying to defend and feel like you're about to be tackled, all game plan goes out the window in a player's mind and they think "I have to kick the ball out asap!" Its as simple as that.

1/3 of our list is B-graders and another 1/3 is C-graders. Hawthorn have zero C-graders; everyone in that squad knows they can depend on each other. Meanwhile with us, someone like Cerra might have the ball in defence in a high pressure situation, but after seeing guys like Haynes, Motlop, Fogarty, Docherty, Cottrell, Acres and co fumbling, dropping marks, getting caught unaware, being too slow to react etc, it creates an overarching pressure across the whole team. In the end, even a good player like Cerra can make a dumb kick out of defence under these circumstances.

Coach here... Usually panic under pressure is quite simple to alleviate and change through providing a good framework(maybe not simple. Good frameworks escape many coaches) for players. They understand the framework they don't feel pressure they just know what the options are regardless of the situation.... Pressure or not. Hope that's not too grade schooler for you.

 

[Opium]

Cause there is noooo depth.....i have not seen a deep and great Carlton list for ?????? .......yep depth drop is bad...can we raid GWS again for 3or4 A grads players?..........then we good.....cause we are short

2023

 

[Beyond Blue]

It’s the players. They are dumb beyond comprehension. The game plan everyone criticises had us in it up to our eye balls. The players couldn’t execute.From the top down. I’m not sure we can blame the coach for this loss.

 

[Wickzki]

Voss agitated at the media…

History has a way of repeating itself.

He knows he's under the pump. New president, new CEO incumbent, likely a new head of football, etc.

The writing is on the wall. Again.

It's easier to sack a coach than it is to gut the list and rebuild and usually when you do the latter you do the former as well.

 

[Opium]

It's no slight on him, it's the match committee. Docherty should not be playing AFL football. If he wants to keep playing to find form it has to be in the VFL, it is genuinely disgusting that he is being picked.

Docherty and Haynes are not AFL standard any more

 

[Beer n Skittles]

And what would happen if they started kicking down the middle and getting easily intercepted by Barass? You'd be potting the skill level.

Kicking aggressively works when you have players who can actually kick. When you have players like Battle, Dambrosio, Weddle, Among, and a raft of players who can both run and kick, it makes sense. When you have players like Lewis Young, Mitch McGovern, Lachie Cowan and Nick Haynes, chances are it won't work. Players tend to only go for aggressive kicks if they know they can connect them.

So now no-one in the team can kick and they should be coached to always kick long down the line?
I get the sense you’re not trying to make a coherent point and are just looking to argue here

 

[reg_lower91]

**** no, get rid of both of them. Young is a deer in headlights and shouldn’t be on an AFL list. McGovern is a merc and completely conditional

Think that's really harsh. Young was very good tonight. Think a lot of people on here judge him with a harsher lens. Understand he has been poor in the past but it's important to measure him fairly.

 

[bigm386]

Last week Blight was a star and this week it's Battle.

I mean the common denominator is our disposal inside 50 being woeful I would have thought.

 

[Benaly28]

If only we had 18 Jsos’ one of a few that bleeds blue.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Did l hear Voss once say there was no time to work on skills? After tonight we can have a system but if you can't hit a target like the Hawks did no system will work. We cannot hit targets 56,percent by foot. Our biggest possession winners around 50. Not quiet top 8 material.

Yes you did.

 

[bringdoullback]

Bringing Young in was a bizarre choice, not adjusting the mix of talls at either end for a quarter was just pure, unmitigated horseshit.

I am so sick of seeing a team that is too tired to do basic running for each other.

What good is winning possession at a stoppage if your only available options are consistently under 2m away and unlikely to be in motion, nor blocking for each other.

Mind-blowingly shit football, because while they're definitely not planning for that, they're absolutely not recognising the personnel issues creating an exhausted and disenfranchised team.

Looks like we played a plus one at the contest for a lot of the night, which makes sense in wet conditions and explains why we won a lot contested ball. But we dont use it cleanly. Our lack of spread from contest really hurts us.

 

[Kernafides]

Yep I concede this team off the back of a three year rebuild is better than us off the back of a 10 year 66 game reset.

You'd be fun at a party lol

 

[blues4flag]

I don’t understand the Vossy bashing, evident again with our lack of polish costing us dearly.
Too many dump kickers (Docherty, Walsh, Cottrell), dumb footballers like McGovern and then players with basic mistakes, too regularly.

Playing with 1 hand behind our back most of the time.

Couldn’t fault the efforts.

F*, I dislike just about everything about Hawthorn.

Cottrell is one of the very few who lowers his eyes when kicking inside 50. Damning but he's probably a top 5 kick at the club.

We desperately miss Eli.

 

[Mondyboy]

I would think, if the Carlton players had the licence to kick into the centre of the ground or at least try and change angles with a kick a bit, we’d have seen someone attempt it by this point.

Instead it’s kick in a straight line down one wing, and if that doesn’t work maybe slowly switch across and try to kick in a straight line down the other wing.

This. Absolutely this. We rarely even try to take the inside kick. Hawks did, despite the conditions. A couple of times they stuffed it, but they still did it.

We didn't do it it once.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I really wish people - the people who are lamenting the quality of our disposal - realise that, of the team that took to the field tonight, the best kick out there was Ollie Hollands.

Let that sink in.

Over the past few years, it's been Newman, Boyd, daylight, then Saad, Williams, Charlie, Cripps (when he lowers his eyes) and Jack. Elijah has played one season, but his ability to find space when there isn't any and a target under pressure is exceptional.

It's rarely as bad as it seems, and right now it seems pretty bad. But this sport is littered with examples of where teams have come from to achieve through adversity. We'll see.

Why isn't it cerra? It was all about how amazing a kick he was when he was recruited and his first season.

Now he's suddenly ignored in lists of good kicks.

Has his skill evaporated? Or does a framework provide nobody to ever kick it to.

Maybe a bit of both. As we know... Fundamentals are not high on the priority list in Carlton land

 

[COBALT BLUE]

Hawthorn won because they have skills, speed and a system..... We're slow, poorly skilled and have no system outside of bombing it and hoping for the best.

That was a close game...with fit Curnow plus Harry we win...
Kick straighter tho.
Hawks had to work very hard...
Carlton will get wins sooner or later....tonight was pretty good I enjoyed the game

 

[Juddrockz]

I miss Nic Newman left foot more than anything right now.

He's been a massive loss.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

It’s the players. They are dumb beyond comprehension. The game plan everyone criticises had us in it up to our eye balls. The players couldn’t execute.From the top down. I’m not sure we can blame the coach for this loss.

My view is the freaks in the contest keep us in the game. Cripps and TDK. They're enough to break anybodies game plan 50% of the time. Weits covers a bit more all on his own too.

 

[Loose at HB]

Not really interested in praising effort - effort should be the bare minimum. But at least it was there

Played one good quarter IMO (the second)
TDK, Cripps, Cerra, Hewett good. Cottrell decent, Jack our most dangerous forward but finishing was horrendous

On TDK - geez we are reliant on him. All of our little runs of momentum came with him on the ground, then Hawks on top promptly when he went off. Why he was off the ground for 10 mins in the last quarter while they put us away defies belief
Also not sure why Voss took Cerra out of the midfield in the third term and sat him at HB when he had 14 and a goal in the first half…

We just make everything so hard - we don’t get easy goals out the back, we don’t get uncontested marks inside 40m, everything just seems so effortful and it has for most of the Voss era (and before it tbh). Coaching is a problem but we have dumb footballers and a frankly overrated list

I love Doc but seeing him pull out of that contest in the third - needs to be dropped. Can’t have senior players doing that

 

[Gethelred]

Why isn't it cerra? It was all about how amazing a kick he was when he was recruited and his first season.

Now he's suddenly ignored in lists of good kicks.

Has his skill evaporated? Or does a framework provide nobody to ever kick it to.

Maybe a bit of both. As we know... Fundamentals are not high on the priority list in Carlton land

I really don't ****ing get it with Cerra. It doesn't make sense.

At Freo, he was their distributor inside 50. Could thread a needle by foot, nail a target 45m away from standing start; and he needed to, because their talls were for shit.

He has time, and so does Walsh. But we need to figure out WTF, pretty soon.

 

[agro]

You'd be fun at a party lol

Haven’t missed a premiership celebration in 55 years, but must confess the last one was 30 years ago.

 

[Graffy4242]

Has anyone said what Harry's "illness" was??

 

[Blue Ratts]

In all seriousness that's how he usually plays so genuinely hard to tell....

I have seen stronger efforts. none today

 

[SwarlesBarkley]

I was at the game and it is now pretty clear to me that what we lack is the ability to create easy goals. All of our goals are a grind and we can grind it out with the best teams but when it comes to maximising a turnover or ‘free hit’ so to speak we are either not composed enough to make the right decision or classy enough to make sure we hit targets to create space for the easy goals. Jagga would have made a difference tonight as would straight kicking. We arent far off but I’m not sure we are coaching to better this area.

We could have won tonight but we ran out of legs due to our nature of the grind. We fix this issue and we win most games.


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