Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[Soapy V]

We are back in the “honourable loss” phase

Not me

It hit home for me last night that we aren't good enough. Effort for 4 quarters was great. Can't question it

Issue is game plan/structure and bottom end talent. We just aren't good enough to compete with the top teams and that really saddens me. We are 5-10 years way from competeing for a flag and that's if we get it right

 

[Curnowisagun]

This is spot on the Hawks spread and run from contest allows more efficient ball movement with players free in space. The Blues have no handball links out of pressure and no spread and run when we get possession. Therefore they have to opt to just kick long and often dump kick whilst under pressure.The game plan is based around contested possession and does not have a good balance of offensive spread and run.

Agree with both posts. A few posters have mentioned lack of spread like many did after the hawks loss last year. We play a completely different contested style which unfortunately is looking to be dated based on the past couple of seasons. Basically polar opposite to the hawks that are considered the best team in the comp atm. Anyone can look quick at AFL level in space but we don't create enough of it. It is painful to see Hollands Saad etc sitting at the back of a pack and dump kicking like anyone in the team could do. Our half back flankers (which we do lack) need to be at the front of the contest or at least on the sides to create that spread and overlap. We are so hellbent on the team defense though that players zone off, get lost and seem to be too scared to run with dare.

As an example, saad's run through the middle last night and kick to Williams. Looked like our best play of the season! He was front of the congestion and got into space. Made the hawks chaser look slow in that play. One of very few unfortunately.

Everyone is calling out the dump kicking to a point where it looks like the game plan, and rightfully so. I don't think that is the instruction (would be scary if it actually is - hope I am not wrong here) but it stems from an overly defensive mindset where we seem to not trust anyone outside Weitering to win a one on one in our back half.

Hawks dump kicked a lot too last night. Difference was they set up for it and try to hit those certain spots knowing and expecting players to be there. A lot of our dump kicks look totally blind and to open opposition players.

Collingwood were kings of the dump kick to the boundary and reset from a stoppage. Especially in their flag years. Hawks look to do the same from the back half.

 

[Accidental genius]

Sorry but if this is the message from the coaching staff, no wonder our playing group is cooked.

His pressers have become a lot worse …clutching straws eyes moving around quickly …it’s all becoming too confusing for him and he doesn’t have answers

He’s out of his depths unfortunately for us

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

8 of the bottom 10 were Blues... there's the game, right there. Even before addressing game plan and basic skill errors....

A few must be dropped.


A few must be dropped...

 

[Blue Pulse]

A lot of people criticise our forwards, particularly our smalls BUT I just wonder how good they would be if ball was delievered better

Issue for me at the moment is we kick it in the same every time and the opposition are reday for it. We don't give them a chance. I reckon any small forward would struggle in our set up

I have said it for three years now. We don't get easy goals. Everything is an effort

How many times last night did Hawthorn kick to the pockets where a lone Hawk player would be standing? We would fill the holes in front of the gaols but they were happy to use every part of the ground and spread. They also are happy to kick to who ever is free and in best position.

We hit the hot spot every time going forward so we usually have 20 blokes in one area with no room to move

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Agree with both posts. A few posters have mentioned lack of spread like many did after the hawks loss last year. We play a completely different contested style which unfortunately is looking to be dated based on the past couple of seasons. Basically polar opposite to the hawks that are considered the best team in the comp atm. Anyone can look quick at AFL level in space but we don't create enough of it. It is painful to see Hollands Saad etc sitting at the back of a pack and dump kicking like anyone in the team could do. Our half back flankers (which we do lack) need to be at the front of the contest or at least on the sides to create that spread and overlap. We are so hellbent on the team defense though that players zone off, get lost and see to be too scared to run with dare.

As an example, saad's run through the middle last night and kick to Williams. Looked like our best play of the season! He was front of the congestion and got into space. Made the hawks chaser look slow in that play. One of very few unfortunately.

Every is calling out the dump kicking to a point where it looks like the game plan, and rightfully so. I don't think that is the instruction (would be scary if it actually is - hope I am not wtong here) but it stems from an overly defensive mindset where we seem to not trust anyone outside Weitering to win a one on one.

Hawks dump kicked a lot too last night. Difference was they set up for it and try to hit those certain spots knowing and expecting players to be there. A lot of our dump kicks look totally blind and to open opposition players.

no game plan works if you can't execute the basics well most of the time....

 

[Gavstar]

Interesting watching the Hawks run last night.

When you see both sides just running we keep up.

It’s when they get the ball they all take off and get to positions. Ball user looks up and has options and uses them. They are drilled this way

Their team discipline is very impressive. We look like an amateur team from the 80s the last at we play. No system at all

They run in a formation designed to help the player with the ball if the pressure comes on. We seem to just try and use brute force to push through or bomb it if the pressure arrives.

The whole hawks team seems to be on the same page on when to handpass, kick or take the tackle. Our decision making seems random roll of the dice stuff.

Surely it must be trained as there was a couple of 5 min periods where some of the hawks seemed make inconsistent decisions (kicked a couple of times when they should have hand passed and hand passed when they should have taken the tackle etc). We capitalised and then they switched back to their method and once again they tightened up their control of the ball.

 

[Soapy V]

Agree with both posts. A few posters have mentioned lack of spread like many did after the hawks loss last year. We play a completely different contested style which unfortunately is looking to be dated based on the past couple of seasons. Basically polar opposite to the hawks that are considered the best team in the comp atm. Anyone can look quick at AFL level in space but we don't create enough of it. It is painful to see Hollands Saad etc sitting at the back of a pack and dump kicking like anyone in the team could do. Our half back flankers (which we do lack) need to be at the front of the contest or at least on the sides to create that spread and overlap. We are so hellbent on the team defense though that players zone off, get lost and see to be too scared to run with dare.

As an example, saad's run through the middle last night and kick to Williams. Looked like our best play of the season! He was front of the congestion and got into space. Made the hawks chaser look slow in that play. One of very few unfortunately.

Every is calling out the dump kicking to a point where it looks like the game plan, and rightfully so. I don't think that is the instruction (would be scary if it actually is - hope I am not wtong here) but it stems from an overly defensive mindset where we seem to not trust anyone outside Weitering to win a one on one.

Hawks dump kicked a lot too last night. Difference was they set up for it and try to hit those certain spots knowing and expecting players to be there. A lot of our dump kicks look totally blind and to open opposition players.

Great summation

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

His pressers have become a lot worse …clutching straws eyes moving around quickly …it’s all becoming too confusing for him and he doesn’t have answers

He’s out of his depths unfortunately for us

yep, i'm just about off that train.... just a massive failure to change things....

 

[branedotorg]

He’s not. Matt Carroll is a better option.

I'd bring him in but not for Hollands. Ollie isn't a great HB but he's performing his role better than any of our defenders bar JW.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

TDK Cripps Hewett Cerra were brilliant last night.

Cerra got better as the night wore on, but gee he looked insanely slow at times (like way slower than George H.)...

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Not me

It hit home for me last night that we aren't good enough. Effort for 4 quarters was great. Can't question it

Issue is game plan/structure and bottom end talent. We just aren't good enough to compete with the top teams and that really saddens me. We are 5-10 years way from competeing for a flag and that's if we get it right

when the likes of Fogarty, Haynes and even Acres are in your bottom half dozen on the night, you're in trouble... then there's Charlie (and Kemp)....

 

[Soapy V]

His pressers have become a lot worse …clutching straws eyes moving around quickly …it’s all becoming too confusing for him and he doesn’t have answers

He’s out of his depths unfortunately for us

I loved Voss as a player. One of the best. Tough and uncompromising.

I feel like Voss is not a natural coach. He doesn't be himself. He is trying to be what he thinks a modern coach should be. Using right words etc. It's manufactured

We aren't going to sack him but we should surround him him smart tactical coaches and encourage him to be more like he was as a player. If he does that I reckon players would follow

 

[branedotorg]

Not me

It hit home for me last night that we aren't good enough. Effort for 4 quarters was great. Can't question it

Issue is game plan/structure and bottom end talent. We just aren't good enough to compete with the top teams and that really saddens me. We are 5-10 years way from competeing for a flag and that's if we get it right

Good planning makes your bottom 5-10 more effective players. Richmond won 3 premierships with 10 well below average players who bought into the game plan and comitted to role/team first football.

Maximise your strengths and stop exposing average players to crucial plays that ask them to do more than their abilities allow.

 

[Jatz]

Not a surprising result in the slightest.

Club lacking confidence clearly. Huge game next week now, 1-2 and we can bounce back into the season, 0-3 leading into the Collingwood game would be diabolical.

 

[Soapy V]

Good planning makes your bottom 5-10 more effective players. Richmond won 3 premierships with 10 well below average players who bought into the game plan and comitted to role/team first football.

Maximise you strengths and stop exposing average players to crucial plays that ask them to do more than their abilities allow.

Exactly. Our bottom 6 or so aren't great but I reckon we don't use them well either

I just feel we don't coach/structure to best use what we have. That is the sign of a great coach

 

[M_I_G]

This is the issue
Is “football” just one performance metric and they think things are fine because they are performing well against all their other non football related KPIs ie memberships etc.
I don’t give a fk about financials and feel good crap - I want on field success

i know certain sections of the fan base are disgruntled and reference the business side of the club but i do not buy into that as a distraction or something the club focuses on more than football. "everything is ok cos we are generating profit and we have a new business or medical imaging center" etc i think its embarrassing that fans clutch onto this as the club not focusing on on field results. we're just not good enough on field for many many reasons.

Region Beta Paradox: The paradox suggests that people often remain in "good enough" but not "great" situations, only taking action when the situation becomes dire, or when the negative impact is severe.

Where we have been for a long time, accepting and turning blind eye to really poor poor signs. We've waited too long and wasted this group now.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Kemp spends most of the game getting shepherded off the marking contest because the opposition have set up a 2 on 1 long. This is the problem with how we're playing.

he's a decent athlete/runner. Needs to get on his bike more....

Not try and do the Curnow wrestle thing...

Hate to say it, but how much are we missing E. Hollands!

 

[tarczonandjane]

Not me

It hit home for me last night that we aren't good enough. Effort for 4 quarters was great. Can't question it

Issue is game plan/structure and bottom end talent. We just aren't good enough to compete with the top teams and that really saddens me. We are 5-10 years way from competeing for a flag and that's if we get it right

I find it telling that we have misread the direction of the game so often. We thought Judd and Fev was enough in an era when key position players were dominant. We decided attack was the way to go under Teague when everyone else was perfecting zone defence. We’ve gone for brutalised clearance work and endurance under Voss when everyone else is going speed and skills. We just continue to miss a beat on the way the game is evolving and it has disastrous consequences for our list management (in particular).

 

[NavyBlueHeaven]

Agree with both posts. A few posters have mentioned lack of spread like many did after the hawks loss last year. We play a completely different contested style which unfortunately is looking to be dated based on the past couple of seasons. Basically polar opposite to the hawks that are considered the best team in the comp atm. Anyone can look quick at AFL level in space but we don't create enough of it. It is painful to see Hollands Saad etc sitting at the back of a pack and dump kicking like anyone in the team could do. Our half back flankers (which we do lack) need to be at the front of the contest or at least on the sides to create that spread and overlap. We are so hellbent on the team defense though that players zone off, get lost and seem to be too scared to run with dare.

As an example, saad's run through the middle last night and kick to Williams. Looked like our best play of the season! He was front of the congestion and got into space. Made the hawks chaser look slow in that play. One of very few unfortunately.

Everyone is calling out the dump kicking to a point where it looks like the game plan, and rightfully so. I don't think that is the instruction (would be scary if it actually is - hope I am not wrong here) but it stems from an overly defensive mindset where we seem to not trust anyone outside Weitering to win a one on one in our back half.

Hawks dump kicked a lot too last night. Difference was they set up for it and try to hit those certain spots knowing and expecting players to be there. A lot of our dump kicks look totally blind and to open opposition players.

Collingwood were kings of the dump kick to the boundary and reset from a stoppage. Especially in their flag years. Hawks look to do the same from the back half.

All good points and agree hawks players are often on the end of their dump kicks and ours which is a problem

I also think our unbalanced game plan focused on stoppage/ contested play is hurting Walsh’s game.

 

[goreds]

We were not that far off it last night.
Effort was there. We “rugby” it forward.
The issue is poor system and inability to execute basic football skills under pressure.
It’s so rare that our boys look fluid and connected transitioning from defence.
This team lacks confidence and belief in what it is doing.
We will win as many games as we lose just on top end talent but we are not a top 4 side.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

It comes down to list management. Again, elite players have wanted to come to our club in the last 6 months, Trac and Houston but we 'stuck to our guns' and went with the current list.

Houston last weekend: 27 disposals, 10 intercepts, 5 inside 50s. BOG, let me say that again BOG...

Sometimes you have to pull the trigger and try and win a flag...

 

[T2B_]

Thing I noticed is even when we were applying pressure and tackling, we looked slow even doing that. By that I don't just mean leg speed, sure we're not quick, but we'd gang tackle an opposition player and just sort of... hold them up and everyone else around stood around waiting to see what would happen next, rather than proactively keeping on the move. Because often the opposition player might get the ball away or the ball spill out in some way, and we're just being pedestrian.

Suggests we really don't know what we're doing, always being reactive rather proactive.

 

[Coops93]

Pressure and intent was better, but what also showed was - as the title suggests - we plain and simply don't have the mobility or the skill.

It's really as simple as that, and teams that hurt on the outside will continue to slice us up because as soon as the ball gets outside the contest we're toast, and when we have it outside the contest we aren't damaging, in the slightest, so we can't hurt the other way.

When your ruckman is one of your better repeat contest to contest players that's a problem. As great an athlete as TDK is, that's just not acceptable.

 

[ajb72]

people like to claim the dump kick isnt part of the game plan. Yet time and time again, we get the ball middle of the ground, have free players on the open side and the player with the ball, looks and ignores them, and dumps the ball forward.

its game plan. and it is a steaming pile of dog shit.

 

[sparkybagger]

WTF was Charlie doing at CHB last night? You take the best fwd in the comp on his day, even undercooked as he was and move him to CHB. Tell me an opposition coach who wouldn't rub his hands in glee at the sight of that.

1. If Charlie isn't fit (he wasn't). Don't play him.
2. If you ignore 1, play him in his best position. He's still drawing their best defender, if not 2 of them. Use him as a f***king decoy if you have to create space for Kemp or whoever else.