Unofficial Preview Rd 22 Geelong v Fremantle at KP.. does it even matter ?

[Grimoz]

Should have a poll in this thread with the question: Will this game be frustrating to watch?

No need for a poll, pretty much every GFC game is frustrating to watch, its just part of the DNA of being a cats supporter, we have sat through a decade of frustration while losing all those grand finals and come out the other side.

 

[00VicWard001]

Maybe Selwood will return the favor from the last match and knock Ballantyne out!!!

Yep, Tex Walker on Tuohy style. Purely accidental. Incidental contact. No report required... sure... pigs will fly.

 

[Grimoz]

Yep, Tex Walker on Tuohy style. Purely accidental. Incidental contact. No report required... sure... pigs will fly.

Maybe we can get Scarlett to deck him again

 

[Mr Blicavs]

69% Win Loss ratio for Scott is ahead of Clarkson but its over a shorter period so far.
I think both are amazing coaches. I know many want to hate on Chris Scott for not selecting the side we want to see or not winning the games we could have won. I just actually respect his design on 2018 and feel strongly with a bit of luck we're a genuine chance. Just like last year.

For this week, I'd love to see Murda or GHS get a run for Parsons. Whomever we have most likely to keep in the squad for the first final. I think 2 ruckman might not fit the design we were aiming at with a Buzza/Sav option as a legit backup. So Harry probably gets the nod for forward/ruck.

56 wins from his last 100 games.....including 2 wins from the last 5 finals and in 2015, missing the finals altogether.

Pretty mediocre if you ask me.
To even mention him in the same breath as Clarkson is laughable.

The first half of his coaching career has been propped up because of the list he inherited
He hasn’t even come close to maintaining that standard.

 

[Grimoz]

56 wins from his last 100 games.....including 2 wins from the last 5 finals and in 2015, missing the finals altogether.

Pretty mediocre if you ask me.
To ev n mention him in the same breath as Clarkson is laughable.

The first half of his coaching career has been propped up because of the list he inherited
He hasn’t even come close to maintaining that standard.

Clarkson in my opinion is probably in the top 3 best coaches ever, a tactical mastermind who gets the best out of his players and isnt afraid to let players have it, Scott on the other hand wouldnt be in the top 50 even with the premiership he won in 2011 which was really Bombers anyway.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Clarkson in my opinion is probably in the top 3 best coaches ever, a tactical mastermind who gets the best out of his players and isnt afraid to let players have it, Scott on the other hand wouldnt be in the top 50 even with the premiership he won in 2011 which was really Bombers anyway.

Best coach I’ve seen.
No coincidence the Hawfies are top 4 again this year.
He gets the absolute best out of every single player on the list. They buy in or it’s the highway.
Scott ........not

 

[candiehappy]

I really hate to be relying on a team to drop one for us to get into the finals

no doubt about that

but I am glad that it's Collingwood & Essendon playing Port, and not Carlton & StKilda .....

 

[Max Milburn]

Why does the Scott debate keep polluting this thread?

 

[Grimoz]

no doubt about that

but I am glad that it's Collingwood & Essendon playing Port, and not Carlton & StKilda .....

Does Essendon have anything to play for though? They might tank the last game in Adelaide which will cost us if Port beat the pies.

 

[Grimoz]

Why does the Scott debate keep polluting this thread?

Because its a topic of conversation, thats what you do on forums, talk about stuff that matters.....ya know

 

[00VicWard001]

I think there is not enough direction from the coaching panel and the roles required when and where to setup at stoppages. Instead each player is playing the game in his own head and deciding it's up to him to get the ball and do something. If instead each player was given a very specific role of WHERE he should be and not give up his position to his opponent we would have a better chance. We also need a ruckman that knows and can put the ball where it needs to be for our mids to get first touch. Our mids outside Danger/Selwood are not doing a good enough job finding space to receive the feed off and get a good disposal off.

To be honest though it all comes back to the tap from the ruck and how well our mids are reading it and we had no chance against Hawthorn - even with Stanley there taps weren't going our way. Instead of all our mids working hard to get best position they were giving it up too easily and then not applying enough pressure to their opposition player through either tackles or close body contact to force a turn over. Hawthorn only needed to send 1 mid in to read the tap and then they had multiple options to feed it off to on the outside. When we did win first possession too often our players were tackled within a millisecond because of bad positioning or a disposal receive that was not accurate forcing them to lose time in getting a kick/handpass off.

Completely agree with this. Our rucks are just not talented enough, or have not been coached well enough to be in sync with the midfield.

Winning that clearance changes everything. It allows us to attack and allows us to move first in the forward line. That period where Hawkins kicked 7 goals against Melbourne? Clearances were everything. We can say Danger and Kelly lowered their eyes - but more importantly - Stanley hit the ball to the right spot, allowing Hawkins to push off into space and he in the right spot for the pass.

The more I see our team play, the more I feel like coaches only do the real work during the pre-season when they try and put together a forward thinking game-plan. The recruiters to their job and try and find the best players to make the game plan work.

Then during the week, they try and remind the players how to execute the game plan (whether it worked or not on the weekend). They also show players what the opposition seem to be trying to do.

If the coaches are completely off with their game plan, i.e. it's just terrible tactically, or the players (due to injury or capability) are unable to execute it, then there's literally nothing that can be done for the rest of the season. It's like that statement how no plan survives first contact with the enemy. When this happens, it's just cobble a new plan together, salvage something of the old plan, re-train the players etc. There is also the fact that your game plan can't work because you're players may be too good for the plan. I.e. Dangerfield dominates sometimes, but potentially to the detriment of the team as a whole - because he's trying too hard in the wrong position. Martin is an ideal player to look at in this context. He plays his role. With his strength, he could no doubt do similar things to Danger, but he doesn't get involved in that. His real strength is the distance he creates on an opponent by pushing off and then his sublime kicking. He is build like an inside bull, but plays an exquisite outside game.

Anyway, back to my point, I feel that coaching on match-day is literally obsolete. Unless the opponents are doing radically different things, or you need to move players around, it ends up plug and play. Yes, they can monitor performance of players with stats and tell them to work harder etc, but that's it. There is no real control of your players on the field. This is why we often see CS in his press conferences be really snappy or really shitty. He's expecting his players to execute based on what they have been taught and what they are clearly demonstrating on the track. When they don't - then really, coaches cannot manage or contain the hundreds of variables that have emerged on game day. Half the time, they probably cannot even identify the emerging variables.

Great coaches like Clarkson fit their team into their system. Their plans actually do survive first contact with the enemy, because they keep them as basic as possible. Zone into these spots, play keepings off with kicking etc etc. No need to be a superstar. Just play your role. Their players learn the system to such a disciplined level that after a while it becomes bread and butter to them and then their talent rises even further. Someone like Gunston (or Breust), who was just an average third tall, has easily replaced a once in a generation player like Buddy. They don't even miss the guy. And he is the most valuable player of the last 10 years. That's because Gunston played in the structure. Learned his role and got so consistent and good at it that when he played 5% better, he became elite. It's also why players are attracted to teams like that. They can see that their personal trajectory will improve being there. They can play their role for 3 years and expect to be consistent and elite by the fourth year.

A great team does not need stars. The stars are the icing, but they shouldn't be doing the heavy lifting. The team as a whole need to lift together. This happens through the right age mix, the right personnel, and of course, the right coaching.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Why does the Scott debate keep polluting this thread?

You’re confusing this place with your safe space.
It’s a chat forum not an echo chamber

 

[00VicWard001]

Maybe we can get Scarlett to deck him again

Can coaches be suspended?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

56 wins from his last 100 games.....including 2 wins from the last 5 finals and in 2015, missing the finals altogether.

Pretty mediocre if you ask me.
To even mention him in the same breath as Clarkson is laughable.

The first half of his coaching career has been propped up because of the list he inherited
He hasn’t even come close to maintaining that standard.

*waits for geelong_crazy to come and tell us how great Scott is compared to Clarkson*

 

[00VicWard001]

You’re confusing this place with your safe space.
It’s a chat forum not an echo chamber

It's not even a Scott debate. It's actually a rational discussion at the moment and quite interesting.

 

[Max Milburn]

You’re confusing this place with your safe space.
It’s a chat forum not an echo chamber

There's already a thread for it. Whether a man who was coaching at Essendon deserves credit for our 2011 flag or the man who actually was coaching Geelong has nothing to do with this weekend's game. And I don't need a safe place, thanks.

 

[Grimoz]

It's not even a Scott debate. It's actually a rational discussion at the moment and quite interesting.

Also its not a debate because nobody is arguing in favor of Scott, we all think he is s**t

 

[PatrickBateman]

Serious question - has Guthrie ever been dropped? Can't remember it if he has.

Remember him playing VFL earlier in the year, but that was because he was coming back from injury.

Don't think so.

Guthrie is thought of in the same regard as Motlop was by Chris Scott. I'm convinced he has a talent hierarchy, the top players on it are never dropped. If under performing, he'll find another role in another position or find some other way to not address the 'problem'.

Dropping players has been proven time and time again to provide a refresh of mind (most importantly). Why the hell wouldn't you drop Guthrie? The argument of 'but, but who's better that can come in for him?' is not necessarily relevant when you're trying to address a players form. You do what it takes to get a player back to his best. Guthrie isn't performing any better than a fringe player anyway, there's absolutely nothing to be lost in trying it.

GFC fail... Motlop + Guthrie.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

*waits for geelong_crazy to come and tell us how great Scott is compared to Clarkson*

6......5.......4.......3........

 

[Mr Blicavs]

There's already a thread for it. Whether a man who was coaching at Essendon deserves credit for our 2011 flag or the man who actually was coaching Geelong has nothing to do with this weekend's game. And I don't need a safe place, thanks.

Nor do you get to control the narrative.

 

[Strange Cat]

You’re confusing this place with your safe space.
It’s a chat forum not an echo chamber

You know that there’s a thread for all of you haters to write your dribble about the coach right?

 

[Strange Cat]

Also its not a debate because nobody is arguing in favor of Scott, we all think he is s**t

You don’t speak for all of us

 

[Grimoz]

There's already a thread for it. Whether a man who was coaching at Essendon deserves credit for our 2011 flag or the man who actually was coaching Geelong has nothing to do with this weekend's game. And I don't need a safe place, thanks.

Max Milburn not to be disrespectful to you but you have been here 5 minutes, I wouldn't be going around telling long term members what they can and cant talk about on this forum, it wont go down well.

 

[Max Milburn]

Nor do you get to control the narrative.

Sure, carry on then.

 

[Grimoz]

You don’t speak for all of us

It was a joke mate hence the tongue smilie!!!