The Law recreational drugs decriminalize or not?

[FlowersByIrene]

For medical purposes no.

You oppose them for recreation purposes?

Why?

 

[theyellowsash]

You oppose them for recreation purposes?

Why?

Because it's rank, its bad enough that tobacco is legal and puts a strain on the health system as well as disturbing other people around smokers, its been shown to have negative health effects despite the people who support it completely ignore the evidence, and I am much more worried about people driving while high than while drunk.

Also the fact that Amsterdam, the poster child for legal marijuana, is progressively increasing restrictions on it suggests that the legalisation of it is not the solution to all problems and that they may have learnt from it.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Because it's rank, its bad enough that tobacco is legal and puts a strain on the health system as well as disturbing other people around smokers, its been shown to have negative health effects despite the people who support it completely ignore the evidence, and I am much more worried about people driving while high than while drunk.

Also the fact that Amsterdam, the poster child for legal marijuana, is progressively increasing restrictions on it suggests that the legalisation of it is not the solution to all problems and that they may have learnt from it.

So it's a moralistic argument rather than a logical one?

As driving whilst under the influence of narcotics is already illegal, and would be more readily enforced (although theyd have to get a more accurate test)

The health system strain would be miniscule compated to obesity, smoking and alcohol related problems, and i dont see you suggesting banning alcohol or fatty food

Do you enjoy a drink on the odd occasion and act like a normal person? I assume you do?

 

[theyellowsash]

Also I just don't see any real evidence for why it should be legalised, considering that there's proof it is harmful, other than people want it to be.

 

[M Malice]

do we all want to live in a nanny state where the government holds our hands and tells us how to live our lives or do we want to be treated as adults who don't require supervision and are allowed to ingest whatever we want into our own bodies?

 

[theyellowsash]

So it's a moralistic argument rather than a logical one?

As driving whilst under the influence of narcotics is already illegal, and would be more readily enforced (although theyd have to get a more accurate test)

The health system strain would be miniscule compated to obesity, smoking and alcohol related problems, and i dont see you suggesting banning alcohol or fatty food

Do you enjoy a drink on the odd occasion and act like a normal person? I assume you do?

The argument comparing weed to fat, sugar and alcohol is a complete fallacy. It is well proven that there are safe consumption levels of all those things, and even having amounts of then can even provide health benefits.

Comparatively there is very iffy evidence that weed is safe and plenty of evidence that it is not. It's about the same as tobacco (which I would support banning, I hate that stuff and the companies that sell it). The very act of smoking marijuana is harmful to begin with.

When you start saying stuff like why don't we ban fat and sugar, youre on the way to losing the argument because you're just making wildly exaggerated arguments based on a loose similarity between the health problems of two substances, which cannot be reasonably compared at all.

 

[theyellowsash]

do we all want to live in a nanny state where the government holds our hands and tells us how to live our lives or do we want to be treated as adults who don't require supervision and are allowed to ingest whatever we want into our own bodies?

That would be good if we all lived in isolation and nothing we did had any impact on the society around us.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The argument comparing weed to fat, sugar and alcohol is a complete fallacy. It is well proven that there are safe consumption levels of all those things, and even having amounts of then can even provide health benefits.

Comparatively there is very iffy evidence that weed is safe and plenty of evidence that it is not. It's about the same as tobacco (which I would support banning, I hate that stuff and the companies that sell it). The very act of smoking marijuana is harmful to begin with.

When you start saying stuff like why don't we ban fat and sugar, youre on the way to losing the argument because you're just making wildly exaggerated arguments based on a loose similarity between the health problems of two substances, which cannot be reasonably compared at all.

Please provide a link that states Marijuana is harmful in moderation, i'd love to see it.

The rest of your post is just continuing on from that basis, so i wont address it until you provide a sound basis for it, if thats okay.

And what about MDMA?

 

[M Malice]

That would be good if we all lived in isolation and nothing we did had any impact on the society around us.

it's all a matter of where you draw the line. do you mean only the safety issue of those around us or the financial strains on society as well. am repeating myself but i have posted the following a few times in this and other threads.

yep, one of my main points on this whole drug issue is- if you are a sound of mind adult you should be able to ingest or do anything you want as long as it does not negatively affect other people or property.

 

[theyellowsash]

Please provide a link that states Marijuana is harmful in moderation, i'd love to see it.

The rest of your post is just continuing on from that basis, so i wont address it until you provide a sound basis for it, if thats okay.

And what about MDMA?

How is smoking marijuana any different to smoking tobacco? There is no moderately safe amount to smoke tobacco, which is mostly due to the effect ingesting smoke has in the lungs. And there have been numerous reports recently about the effect moderate marijuana use has on the body.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

That would be good if we all lived in isolation and nothing we did had any impact on the society around us.

Agreed. I'm sick of gettin' beaten up by drug crazed stoners
























fightin' me for the last pack of Crunchy Nut Cornflakes

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

How is smoking marijuana any different to smoking tobacco? There is no moderately safe amount to smoke tobacco, which is mostly due to the effect ingesting smoke has in the lungs. And there have been numerous reports recently about the effect moderate marijuana use has on the body.

Vape it, eat it, drink it on tea.

You moralising windbag

 

[theyellowsash]

Well since you asked, 5 seconds on Google found something evidence of harmful moderate marijuana.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/casual-marijuana-smoking-linked-to-brain-changes-041614

 

[theyellowsash]

Vape it, eat it, drink it on tea.

You moralising windbag

You are losing the argument when you start resorting to insults.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Well since you asked, 5 seconds on Google found something evidence of harmful moderate marijuana.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/casual-marijuana-smoking-linked-to-brain-changes-041614

From that very same journal

Recent research has suggested that marijuana use is associated with volumetric and shape differences in subcortical structures, including the nucleus accumbens and amygdala, in a dose-dependent fashion. Replication of such results in well controlled studies is essential to clarify the effects of marijuana. To that end, this retrospective study examined brain morphology in a sample of adult daily marijuana users (n = 29) versus nonusers (n = 29) and a sample of adolescent daily users (n = 50) versus nonusers (n = 50). Groups were matched on a critical confounding variable, alcohol use, to a far greater degree than in previously published studies. We acquired high-resolution MRI scans, and investigated group differences in gray matter using voxel-based morphometry, surface-based morphometry, and shape analysis in structures suggested to be associated with marijuana use, as follows: the nucleus accumbens, amygdala, hippocampus, and cerebellum. No statistically significant differences were found between daily users and nonusers on volume or shape in the regions of interest. Effect sizes suggest that the failure to find differences was not due to a lack of statistical power, but rather was due to the lack of even a modest effect. In sum, the results indicate that, when carefully controlling for alcohol use, gender, age, and other variables, there is no association between marijuana use and standard volumetric or shape measurements of subcortical structures

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/casual-marijuana-smoking-linked-to-brain-changes-041614#1

You are losing the argument when you start resorting to insults.

You need to try harder, Blowhard

 

[FlowersByIrene]

How is smoking marijuana any different to smoking tobacco? There is no moderately safe amount to smoke tobacco, which is mostly due to the effect ingesting smoke has in the lungs. And there have been numerous reports recently about the effect moderate marijuana use has on the body.

What about edible marinjuana then?

 

[Long Live HFC]

Comparatively there is very iffy evidence that weed is safe and plenty of evidence that it is not. It's about the same as tobacco...

you're just making wildly exaggerated arguments based on a loose similarity between the health problems of two substances, which cannot be reasonably compared at all.

 

[Pie eyed]

Australia is the largest grower of opiates in the world. surely we could allocate some for free for addicts.

imagine the cost savings in health, crime and social issues if those that want to drop out of society had a clear pathway to chose. its a win for them and a win for everyone else.

Maybe pharmaceutical opiates.....

 

[Power Raid]

Maybe pharmaceutical opiates.....

I'm fairly sure the illicit crops in Pakistan, Afghanistan and the golden triangle could give Tasmania a run for its money

I'm just not sure whether they would donate their crop for a good cause

 

[LFTWNG11]

From that very same journal



http://www.healthline.com/health-news/casual-marijuana-smoking-linked-to-brain-changes-041614#1



You need to try harder, Blowhard

It's funny when people link you to information sources they have not read; and that information source actually backs up that they are wrong. I doubt yellowstash will be back after that one.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

It's funny when people link you to information sources they have not read; and that information source actually backs up that they are wrong. I doubt yellowstash will be back after that one.

I subscribe to it

 

[theyellowsash]

You're right about something finally, I won't be back because I have better things to do than argue with idiots whose arguments are that we should be allowed to do whatever we want because nanny state, and you are a w***er. Flowersbyirene is the only one interesting in having any sort of meaningful discussion.

And you cannot just quote a different article in a journal to make up the idea that I didn't read it. What you quoted was not in the page i posted, so try harder next time. Journals are a collection of separate papers on a topic (I've done a journal article before so I know how they work). Journals often have articles of varying opinions and that only supports my argument further that the evidence marijuana is safe is frequently contradicted.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

You're right about something finally, I won't be back because I have better things to do than argue with idiots whose arguments are that we should be allowed to do whatever we want because nanny state, and you are a ******. Flowersbyirene is the only one interesting in having any sort of meaningful discussion..

Don't recall anybody making that claim, Mr. Hyperbole. The argumant is against prohibition which has clearly been a failure, particularly in the case of cannabis where the harms of criminalising users far outweighs the actual harms caused (not saying that choofin' weed is completely harmless).

And you cannot just quote a different article in a journal to make up the idea that I didn't read it. What you quoted was not in the page i posted, so try harder next time .

No it wasn't. I sought out the source journal article, as in my experience second and third hand reports can sometimes twist the original finbdings

Journals are a collection of separate papers on a topic (I've done a journal article before so I know how they work).

I wouldn't claim Sanctimonious Prats Weekly to be a scientific, peer-reviewed journal

Journals often have articles of varying opinions and that only supports my argument further that the evidence marijuana is safe is frequently contradicted.

Over 20 years of experience in the mental health and addiction field (clinical, research and training) means that I have a fair grasp on the issue, and I'd safely say that cannabis is way down the list of harmful substances. I was choofin' daily whilst completing my masters degree

 

[LFTWNG11]

You're right about something finally, I won't be back because I have better things to do than argue with idiots whose arguments are that we should be allowed to do whatever we want because nanny state, and you are a ******. Flowersbyirene is the only one interesting in having any sort of meaningful discussion.

And you cannot just quote a different article in a journal to make up the idea that I didn't read it. What you quoted was not in the page i posted, so try harder next time. Journals are a collection of separate papers on a topic (I've done a journal article before so I know how they work). Journals often have articles of varying opinions and that only supports my argument further that the evidence marijuana is safe is frequently contradicted.

...and the 'evidence' that there is not not safe levels of consumption are also contradicted by peer reviewed journal papers, like the one you linked

No one argues we should "do whatever we want because nanny state"; you are literally making that up. I suggest you re-read the argument provided by above posters and consider the points they are making - making things up is not going to create a decent discussion on the topic.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Well since you asked, 5 seconds on Google found something evidence of harmful moderate marijuana.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/casual-marijuana-smoking-linked-to-brain-changes-041614