Richmond 2017-20 v Hawthorn 2012-15

[Mikevk123]

Hawks
B Gibson Lake Suckling
HB Hodge Frawley Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Gunston
F Bruest Roughead Puopolo
FOLL McEvoy Shiels Lewis
I/C- Burgoyne, Hale, Stratton, Sewell

Tigers
B Grimes Astbury Vlaustin
HB Short Rance Houli
C Pickett Prestia Mclntosh
HF D.Rioli Lynch Bolton
F Castanga Riewoldt Caddy
FOLL Nankervis Cotchin Martin
I/C- Ellis, Graham, Broad, Balta

 

[Captain_Bender]

Hawks
B Gibson Lake Suckling
HB Hodge Frawley Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Gunston
F Bruest Roughead Puopolo
FOLL McEvoy Shiels Lewis
I/C- Burgoyne, Hale, Stratton, Sewell

Tigers
B Grimes Astbury Vlaustin
HB Short Rance Houli
C Pickett Prestia Mclntosh
HF D.Rioli Lynch Bolton
F Castanga Riewoldt Caddy
FOLL Nankervis Cotchin Martin
I/C- Ellis, Graham, Broad, Balta

No Edwards or Lambert in that Richmond side?

 

[PrinceCharles]

Hawks
B Gibson Lake Suckling
HB Hodge Frawley Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Gunston
F Bruest Roughead Puopolo
FOLL McEvoy Shiels Lewis
I/C- Burgoyne, Hale, Stratton, Sewell

Tigers
B Grimes Astbury Vlaustin
HB Short Rance Houli
C Pickett Prestia Mclntosh
HF D.Rioli Lynch Bolton
F Castanga Riewoldt Caddy
FOLL Nankervis Cotchin Martin
I/C- Ellis, Graham, Broad, Balta

B Gibson Lake Houli
HB Hodge Rance Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Lynch
F Bruest Riewoldt Bolton
FOLL McEvoy Prestia Martin
I/C- Burgoyne, Roughhead, Lewis, Cotchin

 

[Falcon3518]

B Gibson Lake Houli
HB Hodge Rance Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Lynch
F Bruest Riewoldt Bolton
FOLL McEvoy Prestia Martin
I/C- Burgoyne, Roughhead, Lewis, Cotchin

I’d swap Grimes or Vlastuin for Birchall and put in edwards for Hill. But you’d have to rearrange the team a bit. Otherwise spot on


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[Walshawk]

Hawks
B Gibson Lake Guerra
HB Hodge Stratton Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Gunston
F Bruest Roughead Puopolo
FOLL McEvoy Shiels Lewis
I/C- Burgoyne, Hale, Suckling, Sewell

6 x def HOF - Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli, Franko, Rough, Burgoyne.
7 x absolute stars - Gibson, Birchall, Smith, Gunston, Breust, Lewis, Lake.
Sewell & Guerra past their best by then.

Tiges - 4 x HOF Martin, Rance, Reiwoldt, Cotchin
? x stars- Lynch, Prestia, ?, ?, ? (I get those backmen confuse).
Bolton not yet a star in the premiership years.

Hawks by plenty.

 

[Falcon3518]

Hawks
B Gibson Lake Guerra
HB Hodge Stratton Birchall
C Hill Mitchell Smith
HF Rioli Franklin Gunston
F Bruest Roughead Puopolo
FOLL McEvoy Shiels Lewis
I/C- Burgoyne, Hale, Suckling, Sewell

6 x def HOF - Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli, Franko, Rough, Burgoyne.
7 x absolute stars - Gibson, Birchall, Smith, Gunston, Breust, Lewis, Lake.
Sewell & Guerra past their best by then.

Tiges - 3 x HOF Martin, Rance, Reiwoldt
? X stars- Cotchin, Lynch, Prestia, ?, ?, ?
Bolton not yet a star in the premiership years.

Hawks by plenty.

Lethal says the exact opposite


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[Walshawk]

Lethal says the exact opposite


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Recency bias.
I reckon the Hawks best team of the last 25 years was in 2011.

 

[Falcon3518]

Recency bias.
I reckon the Hawks best team of the last 25 years was in 2011.

Chris Scott also agrees, recency bias again? Hmm ok


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[CrowToon]

Richmond won their premierships in a really weak era. It is why the teams they played in their Grand Finals were up for a season or two at most. They (GWS, Adelaide etc) were not up there because they were good, they were up there because the previous heavyweight teams (Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney and Fremantle) were all in decline.

This is one of the dumbest takes that seems to get applied whenever someone decides there wasn't a head and shoulders team.

What you really mean is that the competition was more even which is usually a sign of a stronger competition, not a weaker one. There were and are elite players all over the shop during those years.

Having one or two teams dominate a period says more about the weakness of the other teams to be honest.

The AFL is very cyclical and that is by design. There will always be teams in decline and those on the rise and that will always create opportunities for any rising side. That's just what happens and it is absolutely embarrassing that this would ever be used as a serious argument to invalidate a side's accomplishment.

My vote is for Hawthorn but Richmond didnt just luck into their wins, they became the best. It wasn't as pretty as Hawthorn but it was effective and it very effectively shut down teams that WERE strong.

I don't mind when people make a mistake but when you get run over by the common sense bus and then just brush it off as if nothing happens That's just unforgivable.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

It all comes down to opinion and there's no right or wrong answer.

I think that Hawks period beat the Tigers 7 or 8 out of 10 times. That Hawks side was simply too well drilled.

 

[Fadge]

Recency bias.
I reckon the Hawks best team of the last 25 years was in 2011.

Astute poster this one

 

[Falcon3518]

Astute poster this one

Amazing how people dismiss what Legends of the game as said to suit their narrative. Good on ya Fadge, keep it going


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[hawkman]

Recency bias.
I reckon the Hawks best team of the last 25 years was in 2011.

I disagree with that. 2011 we were still carrying players like Bateman, Osborne who were on their last legs. Roughead missed half the season with the achilles. Gunston hadn't arrived and Breust, Puopolo and Smith were all in their 1st season. The best football we played between 2011 and 2015 was the back half of 2012

 

[JR82]

Richmond won their premierships in a really weak era. It is why the teams they played in their Grand Finals were up for a season or two at most. They (GWS, Adelaide etc) were not up there because they were good, they were up there because the previous heavyweight teams (Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney and Fremantle) were all in decline.

I am curious as to when Freo was a "heavyweight team"?

 

[JR82]

I disagree with that. 2011 we were still carrying players like Bateman, Osborne who were on their last legs. Roughead missed half the season with the achilles. Gunston hadn't arrived and Breust, Puopolo and Smith were all in their 1st season. The best football we played between 2011 and 2015 was the back half of 2012

Obviously '12 was "the one that got away". Would you say that '12 team beats all 3 of the following Premiership sides? I ask as with Richmond i personally think '18 was our best recent season & that was our "one that got away", we'd just peaked to early (our best footy that yr was pre bye).

 

[hawkman]

Obviously '12 was "the one that got away". Would you say that '12 team beats all 3 of the following Premiership sides? I ask as with Richmond i personally think '18 was our best recent season & that was our "one that got away", we'd just peaked to early (our best footy that yr was pre bye).

No. There were still some weaknesses in the 2012 team, some players but also some mental

After the loss to Richmond that year we went on a run over the next 10 games of 9-1 with a percentage of 200, scoring an average of 157. The one loss was to Geelong after the siren after coming from 51 down. It was the best footy we played and amazing to watch but if it broke down it broke down badly and would see us down by 6 goals in a quarter.

2013 and 2014 were stronger teams mentally

 

[Captain_Bender]

Obviously '12 was "the one that got away". Would you say that '12 team beats all 3 of the following Premiership sides? I ask as with Richmond i personally think '18 was our best recent season & that was our "one that got away", we'd just peaked to early (our best footy that yr was pre bye).

I'll argue that Richmond's best footy was in the last few weeks + finals of 2019

 

[SSSSSS]

Recency bias.
I reckon the Hawks best team of the last 25 years was in 2011.

2012 and 2013 were our absolute peak years.

As for the thread Hawthorn easily. No offence to the Tigers but being considered in the mix with some of the best teams of the century (Brisbane, Hawthorn and Geelong in that order) is a feat itself.

 

[JR82]

2012 and 2013 were our absolute peak years.

As for the thread Hawthorn easily. No offence to the Tigers but being considered in the mix with some of the best teams of the century (Brisbane, Hawthorn and Geelong in that order) is a feat itself.

even tho a lesser version of our Premiership sides had little trouble beating your mob during it's peak? Alongside Port we had the best record against that team during that time. When the roles were reversed they couldn't get near us...

 

[Smedts_2]

even tho a lesser version of our Premiership sides had little trouble beating your mob during it's peak? Alongside Port we had the best record against that team during that time. When the roles were reversed they couldn't get near us...

You cannot honestly believe a 2-1 home and away record against Hawthorn in 2013-2015, with <100% percentage, is significant.

 

[hawkman]

You cannot honestly believe a 2-1 home and away record against Hawthorn in 2013-2015, with <100% percentage, is significant.

They also played a completely different style to what they played in 2017-2020

 

[Falcon3518]

They also played a completely different style to what they played in 2017-2020

Yeah a worse one.


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[hawkman]

Yeah a worse one.


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A worse style can be successful against certain teams. The Hawthorn style was terrible between 2019-2021, it would still help upset some bigger teams though

 

[Falcon3518]

A worse style can be successful against certain teams. The Hawthorn style was terrible between 2019-2021, it would still help upset some bigger teams though

I find it hard to believe the system that won as 3 flags and was made to counter your style as well as getting rid of Vickery and improving the list would make us match up worse against you. But you can believe whatever you like I guess.

I’m not even taking into account players entering their prime years. Dusty was a baby when he beat you guys, imagine what he would’ve done to you in his prime.


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[threesixpio]

I can't split them

The tigers won it during a period of a very even comp. Winning once during in even comp is one thing but winning three is a major achievement.

The hawks won a flag where the lead up was impossible to rebuild due to the compromised drafts. Winning one against the like of freo, cats and swans is one thing, but three is incredible.

I dare say 16 other clubs would like to have this record in the last decade

This is a shitty argument. The teams that were good were better competition. Richmond beat a whole lot of weakened pretenders and smashed them.

Hawthorn smashed some genuinely kick ass teams in a competition that was more lop sided