Roach and Jars get it right

[Stiffy_18]

what an absolute crock CM

Craig had a bad day. End of story. So did Roo - does that make him a 'sluggish, never gonna amount to much player'? Of course it doesnt FFS

General perception from fans and media alike that ive seen is that Craig is regarded as a astute and proactive game day tactician. Didnt he outsmart your mate Malthouse just a few weeks back?

We have lost 3 of out 19 last minor round games - by a grand collective margin of less than 2 kicks

Wake up and smell the roses sunshine

He is anything but actually.

Craig's lack of match day coaching has been exposed a number of times. Does that make him a bad coach. Hell no.

Craigy is a methodical coach. His team is a well drilled hardened unit. He won't make any drastic moves during the game. He likes to show faith to his players to work it out for themselves.

Craig does his best work leading up to the game. He is a perfectionist and covers a lot of bases during the week in the lead up to the game. Couple that undeniable professionalism and drive for perfection with his exceptional motivational skills and he will win you many games.

Craig is a VERY VERY good coach, but he is not a match day tactician as you like to put it. He covers up his weaknesses with unbelievable strengths. His match day coaching is not that great but his preparation and work in the lead up to the game has no peer in this competion.

As a match day tactician, there is none better than Rodney Eade IMHO. He is a master match day tactician but he is not as strong in the areas that Craig is. Does that make him a bad coach, I don't think so

 

[The Crows Truth]

He is anything but actually.

Craig's lack of match day coaching has been exposed a number of times. Does that make him a bad coach. Hell no.

Craigy is a methodical coach. His team is a well drilled hardened unit. He won't make any drastic moves during the game. He likes to show faith to his players to work it out for themselves.

Craig does his best work leading up to the game. He is a perfectionist and covers a lot of bases during the week in the lead up to the game. Couple that undeniable professionalism and drive for perfection with his exceptional motivational skills and he will win you many games.

Craig is a VERY VERY good coach, but he is not a match day tactician as you like to put it. He covers up his weaknesses with unbelievable strengths. His match day coaching is not that great but his preparation and work in the lead up to the game has no peer in this competion.

As a match day tactician, there is none better than Rodney Eade IMHO. He is a master match day tactician but he is not as strong in the areas that Craig is. Does that make him a bad coach, I don't think so

ok so let me get this right. Craig isnt a good day match day coach. Is this what you are saying? If so, explain how we have won all but 3 of our last 19 minor round games

 

[The Crows Truth]

And quite right too.

Paul Roos, who is no amateur, said that it was Adelaide who should have been booed for Saturday's display, not Richmond, as they had the power to end it at any time. Cold hard fact.

So I'll take the opinion of that professional over your amateur one.

Craig is the best thing that ever happened to the Adelaide footy club in recent years - but as the experts say, he fkd up big time on Saturday.

You raise nothing new in your post. As I previously stated he had a shocker on Saturday - blind bl00dy freedy could see that

Can you find me some professional views saying he aint a good overall match day coach - im talking of substance not a one off game

 

[Stiffy_18]

ok so let me get this right. Craig isnt a good day match day coach. Is this what you are saying? If so, explain how we have won all but 3 of our last 19 minor round games

We have won so many games because he is second to none in his preparation leading up to the game. He breaks down oppositions styles to a every minute detail and comes up with a plan to beat it. In most of those games he doesn't do much on match days.

If he is such a great match day coach, then tell me what is the biggest match winning move he has ever made. What changes on the field did he do that got us over the line when we didn't look like winning?

You don't have to be a good match day tactician to win many games. Just as you don't have to be great at preparation in the lead up to the game. As long as you make up your defficiencies with you strengths (which Craig no doubt does) you will win games. Provided you have the players.

Are you telling me that Craig is anywhere near as good a match day coach as Malcolm Blight was?

Blighty's preparation in the week leading up to the game was average. He spent most of his day perfecting his golf game but on game day he would pull moves out of his backside to win us games. Craig is completely the opposite. He will prepare exceptionally well and thats what wins him the game.

Craig's match day coaching has been exposed a number of times in his time as head coach here. He is slow to react a lot of the time.

 

[CrowMagnum]

He is anything but actually.

Craig's lack of match day coaching has been exposed a number of times. Does that make him a bad coach. Hell no.

Craigy is a methodical coach. His team is a well drilled hardened unit. He won't make any drastic moves during the game. He likes to show faith to his players to work it out for themselves.

Craig does his best work leading up to the game. He is a perfectionist and covers a lot of bases during the week in the lead up to the game. Couple that undeniable professionalism and drive for perfection with his exceptional motivational skills and he will win you many games.

Craig is a VERY VERY good coach, but he is not a match day tactician as you like to put it. He covers up his weaknesses with unbelievable strengths. His match day coaching is not that great but his preparation and work in the lead up to the game has no peer in this competion.

As a match day tactician, there is none better than Rodney Eade IMHO. He is a master match day tactician but he is not as strong in the areas that Craig is. Does that make him a bad coach, I don't think so

Like you say , Craig is methodical and meticulous, an obsessive perfectionist if you like, but this comes at a cost. He has brilliant preconceived plans for most situations but like many perfectionists he finds it hard to improvise and occasionally fly by the seat of his pants to cope with the unexpected or unconventional. It seems to me he is a good learner but not a quick learner. I'm sure he'll dream up the perfect counter to any team that repeats Richmond's game plan but it will take him a week to do that, not 5 minutes or even a quarter.

That's not to say he's not the best coach for us. The results prove he is, but no-one's perfect. He doesn't need to learn how to counteract tempo football a week later, he needs to learn how to counteract the next unexpected game plan on the same day.

 

[Crow-mo]

ok so let me get this right. Craig isnt a good day match day coach. Is this what you are saying? If so, explain how we have won all but 3 of our last 19 minor round games

err. are you serious? otherwise we're going right back to basics.

for a start Stiffy has explained it perfectly above, so it seems that you're of the opinion that a coach's work begins and ends in the coaching box on match day - is that correct?

Modern footy has gotten to the stage where all the work by the coaching staff is done by match day, and then it's up to the players to execute. which is why Craig's devolution of responsibility and leadership to the players has been so important. He comes from the position, that by the time the game starts, his work is done. broadly speaking anyway.
which is why his perceived shortcomings in the box don't matter so much, that's the old economy of footy.

just in case you really haven't seen any footy since 1996, the main reason Rodney Eade was sacked by the swannies, is that he was preparing well enough leading up to game day. he was getting lazy on the training track, and only wanted to wave his magic wand in the box.

now contrast that with Craig circa 2006, and it should all be a little more clear.

 

[Southerntakeover]

And quite right too.

Doing well so far...

Paul Roos, who is no amateur, said that it was Adelaide who should have been booed for Saturday's display, not Richmond, as they had the power to end it at any time. Cold hard fact.

So I'll take the opinion of that professional over your amateur one.

Doh!

You need to retake arguement 101.

You cant call something both a cold hard fact and an opinion, its one or the other. Roos expressed an opinion.

The facts say that we've had an exceptional record over the last two years. The opinions say that Craig cant coach in the box based on a three point defeat. I know which one is more credible to me.

 

[The Crows Truth]

Doing well so far...



Doh!

You need to retake arguement 101.

You cant call something both a cold hard fact and an opinion, its one or the other. Roos expressed an opinion.

The facts say that we've had an exceptional record over the last two years. The opinions say that Craig cant coach in the box based on a three point defeat. I know which one is more credible to me.

a voice of reason

Off course Roos opinion is just that - an opinion.

Win-loss stats on the other hand.....

 

[Crow-mo]

a voice of reason

Off course Roos opinion is just that - an opinion.

Win-loss stats on the other hand.....

do you know what a non-sequitur is?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=non%20sequitur

 

[Southerntakeover]

do you know what a non-sequitur is?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=non%20sequitur

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Relevance

The next word of the day is...

 

[beartoo]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Relevance

The next word of the day is...

B... S...

 

[macca23]

Doing well so far...



Doh!

You need to retake arguement 101.

You cant call something both a cold hard fact and an opinion, its one or the other. Roos expressed an opinion.

The facts say that we've had an exceptional record over the last two years. The opinions say that Craig cant coach in the box based on a three point defeat. I know which one is more credible to me.

And yours is only an opinion as well.

Paul Roos is just slightly better qualified than both of us, wouldn't you say, and he thinks it was a coaching mistake by Craig.

I'm happy to believe him before I believe you.

Answering my comments with generalisms not related to the game I'm specifically talking about are irrelevant.

 

[Southerntakeover]

And yours is only an opinion as well.

Paul Roos is just slightly better qualified than both of us, wouldn't you say, and he thinks it was a coaching mistake by Craig.

I'm happy to believe him before I believe you.

Answering my comments with generalisms not related to the game I'm specifically talking about are irrelevant.

Ill summarise whats been said more clearly for you and see if you cant understand this time.

You say: Neil Craigs coaching in the box, based on last week, 'isnt good enough'. You then quote Paul Roo's critisizing us, and cite it as fact.

The Crows Truth said: Neil Craig is good enough, under him we have had an exceptional record, we've lost only 3 of 19 games, with a combined margin of less than two goals. These are facts.

Ive said: You were wrong in your citation of Roo's as fact, and i personally find the facts more credible than the opinions put forward, no matter how expert.

You may personally be misunderstood here, and indeed i hope so. I hope you are only saying that Craigs day wasnt as good as it had been, and you are not critisizing his entire performance as a coach based on one three point upset loss. I am however dissappointed to see this level of 'feral supporter' syndrome bagging the sh1t out of the team when everyone on this board was happy to ride the bandwagon during our wins this season. Its the downs that reveal the true nature of a supporter.

 

[- PC -]

I am however dissappointed to see this level of 'feral supporter' syndrome bagging the sh1t out of the team when everyone on this board was happy to ride the bandwagon during our wins this season. Its the downs that reveal the true nature of a supporter.

I dont think its Feral Supporter Syndrome. I think it is a genuine questioning of a match day tactic . I have posted in another thread that I have had some questions regarding the coaching on other occassions but I said those questions were quitened by the wins...what use would questioning moves have done after a winning game?

Can you answer me this , would you have wanted NC to instruct his players to man up?

Can someone tell me what manning up would have done in a negative sense. ie if we manned up would we have lost by more?

 

[Southerntakeover]

I dont think its Feral Supporter Syndrome. I think it is a genuine questioning of a match day tactic . I have posted in another thread that I have had some questions regarding the coaching on other occassions but I said those questions were quitened by the wins...what use would questioning moves have done after a winning game?

Can you answer me this , would you have wanted NC to instruct his players to man up?

Truthfully i didnt think that Richmond would come out doing that after half time, since the tempo football philosophy means using it to break momentum. Seeing it done for a whole match was unprecedented. I was wanting the change in the third quarter, i was even screaming for it, but realistically craig didnt address his men again until three quarter time, when he got them to change system to great effect.

Seriously though, the critisism of an otherwise great coach is just the tip of the iceberg ive read here this week. Add that onto other beauties like Brett Burton is a w*nker and a curse, and lets murder scott stevens, and we're starting to look no different than the other rabbles who turn on their own at the first sign of trouble.

 

[Vader]

Lets face it, the whole team - including the coach - had a shocker. For all that, they only lost by three points.

Yes, Craig was slow in reacting to Richmond's tactics - but to blame him solely for the loss is absurd.

The players on the field also had a shocker, getting belted in many aspects of the game.

You can argue shoulda, coulda, woulda's until the cows come home. If Hentschell had kicked better we might have won, if Kenny Mac could kick over a jam tin we might have won, if, if, if. The fact is that these things didn't happen and we lost as a result of the WHOLE TEAM dropping its collective bundle.

It may well be that losing this game works out for the good of the side - it should ensure that there is no more complacency in any games this year, it should also ensure that Craig examines the tactics he introduces and works out counter-tactics to use in case they are used against us in the future.

 

[bigman]

Lets face it, the whole team - including the coach - had a shocker. For all that, they only lost by three points.

Yes, Craig was slow in reacting to Richmond's tactics - but to blame him solely for the loss is absurd.

The players on the field also had a shocker, getting belted in many aspects of the game.

You can argue shoulda, coulda, woulda's until the cows come home. If Hentschell had kicked better we might have won, if Kenny Mac could kick over a jam tin we might have won, if, if, if. The fact is that these things didn't happen and we lost as a result of the WHOLE TEAM dropping its collective bundle.

It may well be that losing this game works out for the good of the side - it should ensure that there is no more complacency in any games this year, it should also ensure that Craig examines the tactics he introduces and works out counter-tactics to use in case they are used against us in the future.

And lets win the hard ball gets Vader.

We had one of the lowest totals for the year in Hard Ball gets.

We need to win the aggatt and get our hands dirty.

I think we were down the previous week too in this area.

I could sense a loss coming despite the optimism and cockiness of many of the board last week.

The whole team had an off week last week including the coaching team and Craigy.

Lets hope we dont need another wake up call against Carlton.

 

[Vader]

And lets win the hard ball gets Vader.

We had one of the lowest totals for the year in Hard Ball gets.

Agreed.

That would fall under the banner of "players on the field" getting "belted in many aspects" of the game.

 

[Crow-mo]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Relevance

The next word of the day is...

if you can't see the "relevance" you have no place in this or any other discussion

 

[Crow-mo]

Ive said: You were wrong in your citation of Roo's as fact, and i personally find the facts more credible than the opinions put forward, no matter how expert.

well if you follow the thread you'll see very clearly the context. he is correct, it is a FACT that 1. Roos is an expert; 2. he made these public statements. Now as the response was in line to a comment that we should trust the experts, and I not sure what you're on about?

It is also a fact that our finals record under craig is 1 out of 3. however, like the other, I am not sure anything can be taken from either statistic to inform a specific discussion on one element of coaching.

As it is, it is also a FACT that choco and cornflakes have pretty strong regular season records too, what do you take from that?

 

[Southerntakeover]

well if you follow the thread you'll see very clearly the context. he is correct, it is a FACT that 1. Roos is an expert; 2. he made these public statements. Now as the response was in line to a comment that we should trust the experts, and I not sure what you're on about?

It is also a fact that our finals record under craig is 1 out of 3. however, like the other, I am not sure anything can be taken from either statistic to inform a specific discussion on one element of coaching.

As it is, it is also a FACT that choco and cornflakes have pretty strong regular season records too, what do you take from that?

Ive seen the context. Those two statements are facts, however what Roo's put forward was not fact, it was opinion. He responded to a statement saying he liked cold hard facts with an opinion and i pointed out his error, its as simple as that. No matter what word games you try to play its the same result.

I would suggest that we've played in too few finals under Craig for the figures to have developed a pattern upon which to judge.

As for Choco etc, id suggest that for the majority of his coaching stint with Port he has actually been a good coach, its only recently that he has underperformed.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Ive seen the context. Those two statements are facts, however what Roo's put forward was not fact, it was opinion. He responded to a statement saying he liked cold hard facts with an opinion and i pointed out his error, its as simple as that. No matter what word games you try to play its the same result.
.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

well if you follow the thread you'll see very clearly the context. he is correct, it is a FACT that 1. Roos is an expert; 2. he made these public statements. Now as the response was in line to a comment that we should trust the experts, and I not sure what you're on about?

It is also a fact that our finals record under craig is 1 out of 3. however, like the other, I am not sure anything can be taken from either statistic to inform a specific discussion on one element of coaching.

As it is, it is also a FACT that choco and cornflakes have pretty strong regular season records too, what do you take from that?

There is a lot of sprouting about facts v opinon & plenty of premium hot air & egos going around on this forum. Nothing like an unexpected loss ot heat things up!

Even though it is a fact that Paul Roos is an coach, who knows more than Joe average about the game, this it is not really a big call, along with the same comment about any other coach. Also, it is not a huge surprise that they make some public statements. Whilst most of the time they make informed comment, it is not always the case (though I agree they do the majority of the time).

Now to the fact that our finals record under Craig is 1-2, which is undeniable. I would say that injury to Bock & suspension to Roo cost us the Saints game more than either Cornflakes' outcoaching of Craig ... & that basically blew away our chances of a flag, given we had to play away to the Eagles.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Lets face it, the whole team - including the coach - had a shocker. For all that, they only lost by three points.

Yes, Craig was slow in reacting to Richmond's tactics - but to blame him solely for the loss is absurd.

The players on the field also had a shocker, getting belted in many aspects of the game.

You can argue shoulda, coulda, woulda's until the cows come home. If Hentschell had kicked better we might have won, if Kenny Mac could kick over a jam tin we might have won, if, if, if. The fact is that these things didn't happen and we lost as a result of the WHOLE TEAM dropping its collective bundle.

It may well be that losing this game works out for the good of the side - it should ensure that there is no more complacency in any games this year, it should also ensure that Craig examines the tactics he introduces and works out counter-tactics to use in case they are used against us in the future.

The voice of reason.

 

[Crow-mo]

Now to the fact that our finals record under Craig is 1-2, which is undeniable. I would say that injury to Bock & suspension to Roo cost us the Saints game more than either Cornflakes' outcoaching of Craig ... & that basically blew away our chances of a flag, given we had to play away to the Eagles.

i might refer you to the part where I stated that I didn't think anything meaningful could be taken from this fact.