rookie draft thread

[rizzo]

Stephen reckons he'll be right to play round 1 or 2 next year, doubt it though.

That would be a miracle. from memory he got the injury in round 18. Knee recos need a good 12 months.

 

[Budda 230]

Which games did you see him play at Bunyip Budda? Also, he was more often not playing for Geelong VFL because both King and Westy were in the team, and obvioulsy neither could be dropped. Also, I wouldn't call it unprofessional if him turning up so much fitter was what convinced them to take him. Presumably they thought he could play, but didnt think he'd ever get fit enough. Then they see him fit and that concern is removed. Sounds smart to me. Sure, they have taken a risk, but any 17 or 18 year old ruckman is going to be just as big a risk, plus, you dont know if they will get size or not. Mumf has size already. Now, all of a sudden he has access to PREMIERSHIP winning coaches, nutritionist, Strength coaches, hig performance coaches. He might suprise after a year, he might not. At least you (a so called 10 year team mate, yet no one knows who you are) could be supportive of him, especially now that your club has drafted him.

All the best Shane!

Bards

Oh ouch. How would you know who I am anyway? I haven't stated my name anywhere.

Anyway, moving on. I didn't say I was a 10 year team mate, I said I was at the same club as him for 10 years. I was 2 years older than him and usually a grade higher during juniors. I may have played a couple of thirds games with him, but I can't remember. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

I watched him play against the Dusties about mid season, against Longwarry when Bunyip smashed them just before the finals and the Catani match which I think was 1 or 2 games before finals. Like I said he dominated in all 3 matches.

It needs to be remembered that Mumford wasn't dropped for the King/West combination in the VFL side, but for a West/Butler version. King was still injured at the time. So he was dropped for form not pushed out because of King's experience. The West/King combo may have stopped him from coming back into the side, but we'll never know that for sure.

Instead of only considering your own Mumford bias, look at it from a Geelong supporters point of view who is wondering why his team has made this decision. He is a ruckman who is turning 22 next year who hasn't shown any form in any state leagues (ie VFL, SANFL, WAFL) or junior leagues (ie TAC Cup) to warrant being drafted. He already has a big body which means there is less scope for improvement and development. His biggest upside is his ability to use his body weight to his advantage. So what does he do? He loses that weight that gave him such a great advantage. Yes, I agree he needed to get fit, but he only has one year to pump that iron back on now.

The only player that I can think of who is in a similar state to Mumford at the same time of their careers (physically and experience against quality opposition wise) that have gone on to be successful is Ben Hudson. It also needs to be remembered Hudson was a very late starter to Aussie Rules (about 17 or 18), while Mumford has been playing since about 10ish. Even Hudson needed to have a couple of solid seasons at Werribee before being considered. Is it really that difficult to admit that he has a bit going against him (except for the fact he is on an AFL list)? Would you say the negatives out weigh the positives? You would have to say yes. I just think that there were much better options available. Like Rizzo said, we only used pick 50 something in the rookie draft so it won't hurt the club if things do go pear shaped.

Like I said on the Gippsland board, I would be rapted if he proves me wrong and makes me look like a idiot because that would mean a great result for the footy club.

 

[tin can sam]

Are u Kevin Sheehan? How would u know, really? DO u have access to all the scouting networks that Geelong are privvy to? Did u have inside access to everything Owen did re: training, development, etc? I trust the clubs judgement over yours, no offence...

It's just an opinion, get off your high horse.

But when Kangars and Mumford are not retained at years end I won't be bumnping this thread.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

It's just an opinion, get off your high horse.

But when Kangars and Mumford are not retained at years end I won't be bumnping this thread.

Kangars is a highly disciplined elite athlete...who is a late starter to footy...giving him only 12 months to prove his worth at the top level defeats the whole purpose of picking him as a rookie in the first place.

Mumford is a different proposition, older for starters and should look to make some bigger strides pardon the pun in that first 12 months than a guy like Kangars because he has more of a footy background and if fitness is the query then its reasonable to expect his ability to start to shine through somewhere round the second half of next season in the VFL...and will probably be rated accordingly.

My point being lumping Mumford and Kangars into the same pot and comparing them to a guy like Owen who will hardly play any decent footy next year due to rehab doesnt make much sense to me...but thats just my opinion...not high and not on a horse...

 

[rizzo]

It's just an opinion, get off your high horse.

But when Kangars and Mumford are not retained at years end I won't be bumnping this thread.

How you can group those two together completely defies logic. Kangars went to draft camp and shone. Athletically he is perfect, his skill just needs a bit of work, especially his kicking.

You can teach a kid to kick a footy, you cant teach a kid to run 400m quicker than Cathy Freeman.

 

[Rosso]

How you can group those two together completely defies logic. Kangars went to draft camp and shone. Athletically he is perfect, his skill just needs a bit of work, especially his kicking.

You can teach a kid to kick a footy, you cant teach a kid to run 400m quicker than Cathy Freeman.

What if the kid is really really fast but just needs a few tips on his running style to shave Cathy's time?

Didn't think of that one Rizzo did ya!!

 

[forrrestGump]

What if the kid is really really fast but just needs a few tips on his running style to shave Cathy's time?

Didn't think of that one Rizzo did ya!!

great we will continue to argue how fast byrnes is or are we going to discuss spriggs as well, who cares they are shite, need ability and speed is secondary, otherwise bartel will not get a game, williams will be traded again again again,

 

[bards]

Oh ouch. How would you know who I am anyway? I haven't stated my name anywhere.

Anyway, moving on. I didn't say I was a 10 year team mate, I said I was at the same club as him for 10 years. I was 2 years older than him and usually a grade higher during juniors. I may have played a couple of thirds games with him, but I can't remember. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

I watched him play against the Dusties about mid season, against Longwarry when Bunyip smashed them just before the finals and the Catani match which I think was 1 or 2 games before finals. Like I said he dominated in all 3 matches.

It needs to be remembered that Mumford wasn't dropped for the King/West combination in the VFL side, but for a West/Butler version. King was still injured at the time. So he was dropped for form not pushed out because of King's experience. The West/King combo may have stopped him from coming back into the side, but we'll never know that for sure.

Instead of only considering your own Mumford bias, look at it from a Geelong supporters point of view who is wondering why his team has made this decision. He is a ruckman who is turning 22 next year who hasn't shown any form in any state leagues (ie VFL, SANFL, WAFL) or junior leagues (ie TAC Cup) to warrant being drafted. He already has a big body which means there is less scope for improvement and development. His biggest upside is his ability to use his body weight to his advantage. So what does he do? He loses that weight that gave him such a great advantage. Yes, I agree he needed to get fit, but he only has one year to pump that iron back on now.

The only player that I can think of who is in a similar state to Mumford at the same time of their careers (physically and experience against quality opposition wise) that have gone on to be successful is Ben Hudson. It also needs to be remembered Hudson was a very late starter to Aussie Rules (about 17 or 18), while Mumford has been playing since about 10ish. Even Hudson needed to have a couple of solid seasons at Werribee before being considered. Is it really that difficult to admit that he has a bit going against him (except for the fact he is on an AFL list)? Would you say the negatives out weigh the positives? You would have to say yes. I just think that there were much better options available. Like Rizzo said, we only used pick 50 something in the rookie draft so it won't hurt the club if things do go pear shaped.

Like I said on the Gippsland board, I would be rapted if he proves me wrong and makes me look like a idiot because that would mean a great result for the footy club.

Actually, Craig, I do know who you are, but thats not important.

I have realised that you are just a passionate cat, I am the same with my Hawks, and you probably mean no harm to Mumf. Just doesnt come across that way.

Yep, you played at bunyip, had a big afro and wore a helmet.

I dont think you can group ruckmen in the same group as other players. These blokes always take longer. If they havent shown it at state level doesnt mean they aren't up to it. Have a look at how many ruckman size blokes make it by 22. Hardly any. Like I said before, the gamble is the same, if not better taking a 22 yo over an 18 year old, if they are that type of player. The stakes here aren't even high, the final rookie spot on a premiership team.

I dont think the negatives do outweigh the positives. Negative - hasn't done much yet above club level, positive - 199cm, 102kg, 22, ready to play against men, fit (now), has dominated levels he's played at consistantly, can kick, mark and handball.

Less scope for improvement because he already has a big body. No way. OK, he might not get taller, he can get fitter (its takes elite midfielders multiple preseasons to get to the elite class in endurance), can get stronger (bring on the weight stack), can improve running technique and therefore speed. Can be coached in better ruck techniques, centre square strategies etc. The opporuntities on offer at an AFL club a huge compared to being a fill in VFL player.

There is a huge difference between Ellinbank and VFL, and a huge difference between VFL and AFL, but who knows, with improvement, and opportunity, the gulfs might be bridged.

Best of luck with cricket at Iona this weekend.

Shane's opening the bowling for Bunyip.....

..... just kidding, no more cricket for him.

Cheers

Bards

 

[scottydeewah]

People often forget that most of the NEW players picked in Rookie and preseason drafts will never play.

 

[Budda 230]

Actually, Craig, I do know who you are, but thats not important.

I have realised that you are just a passionate cat, I am the same with my Hawks, and you probably mean no harm to Mumf. Just doesnt come across that way.

Yep, you played at bunyip, had a big afro and wore a helmet.

I dont think you can group ruckmen in the same group as other players. These blokes always take longer. If they havent shown it at state level doesnt mean they aren't up to it. Have a look at how many ruckman size blokes make it by 22. Hardly any. Like I said before, the gamble is the same, if not better taking a 22 yo over an 18 year old, if they are that type of player. The stakes here aren't even high, the final rookie spot on a premiership team.

I dont think the negatives do outweigh the positives. Negative - hasn't done much yet above club level, positive - 199cm, 102kg, 22, ready to play against men, fit (now), has dominated levels he's played at consistantly, can kick, mark and handball.

Less scope for improvement because he already has a big body. No way. OK, he might not get taller, he can get fitter (its takes elite midfielders multiple preseasons to get to the elite class in endurance), can get stronger (bring on the weight stack), can improve running technique and therefore speed. Can be coached in better ruck techniques, centre square strategies etc. The opporuntities on offer at an AFL club a huge compared to being a fill in VFL player.

There is a huge difference between Ellinbank and VFL, and a huge difference between VFL and AFL, but who knows, with improvement, and opportunity, the gulfs might be bridged.

Best of luck with cricket at Iona this weekend.

Shane's opening the bowling for Bunyip.....

..... just kidding, no more cricket for him.

Cheers

Bards

Ahh! Ok, you do know who I am. Gee, I probably need to change my bigfooty name to make my identity a little less obvious.

I've got no doubt that the coaching and facilities will obviously help Mumf out with his development, as it would any young footballer just drafted to an AFL club (especially the reigning Premiers). What I haven't heard yet is an explanation as to why he was chosen ahead of other players that better suited our needs and IMHO that had greater positives. We don't generally have so many ruckman on the list. Yeah, we have a couple of developing rucks on the list that may need back up, but even Wellsy said Geelong wouldn't draft ruckman just for that reason. But Wellsy obviously went to see a few games at Bunyip and saw his league domination.

Ok, maybe I need to be a little more positive toward the drafting of Mumford which I will as time goes by. I don't want to sound like I want him to fail because I certainly don't at all. Plus I don't want Mumf to eat me in anger!

Yeah, I need all the luck I can get with my cricket at the moment because I can't get a bloody run since coming back from injury.

Cheers Budda 230

PS - Who the hell are you by the way?

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Ahh! Ok, you do know who I am. Gee, I probably need to change my bigfooty name to make my identity a little less obvious.

I've got no doubt that the coaching and facilities will obviously help Mumf out with his development, as it would any young footballer just drafted to an AFL club (especially the reigning Premiers). What I haven't heard yet is an explanation as to why he was chosen ahead of other players that better suited our needs and IMHO that had greater positives. We don't generally have so many ruckman on the list. Yeah, we have a couple of developing rucks on the list that may need back up, but even Wellsy said Geelong wouldn't draft ruckman just for that reason. But Wellsy obviously went to see a few games at Bunyip and saw his league domination.

Ok, maybe I need to be a little more positive toward the drafting of Mumford which I will as time goes by. I don't want to sound like I want him to fail because I certainly don't at all. Plus I don't want Mumf to eat me in anger!

Yeah, I need all the luck I can get with my cricket at the moment because I can't get a bloody run since coming back from injury.

Cheers Budda 230

PS - Who the hell are you by the way?

I reckon he might be Mumf...

 

[bards]

Nah, Im not mumf. Its only fair you know who I am I guess as you told me. And yes, I was disapointed to do the work to work out who you were (I found that picture of you from the day out you guys had and asked a couple of people), only to find out that your big footy nickname is your real nickname anyway.

My names Glenn, I played a few games at Bunyip last year in the 2's, was on the committee and am one of the Publicans at the Top.

Cheers

Bards

 

[Turbocat]

I have no real problem with the selection of Mumford. A ruck in the main draft and one in the Rookie is what several on this board have been crying out for.
As Grima has shown , being picked as a Rookie and performing well guarantees nothing but at least you have had a chance

Good luck to him and the other three we have picked , my only disappointment is the guys like Urie and the others who showed enough imo to be given a chance as well , unfortunately there is just not enough spots for everyone worthy. Its a shame that clubs that are capable of having extra players arn't able to due to cap pressure and number restrictions maybe thy should increase the rookie numbers or be able to directly draft players from their VFL list

 

[Budda 230]

Nah, Im not mumf. Its only fair you know who I am I guess as you told me. And yes, I was disapointed to do the work to work out who you were (I found that picture of you from the day out you guys had and asked a couple of people), only to find out that your big footy nickname is your real nickname anyway.

My names Glenn, I played a few games at Bunyip last year in the 2's, was on the committee and am one of the Publicans at the Top.

Cheers

Bards

There we go. Fair enough. Who recognised me?

I'll have to come in for a beer after cricket some day soon.

 

[sarah.13]

Another ruckman in the rookie draft was an absolute necessity IMO and 4 ruckmen on the list was never going to be enough given;
Ottens is our main man and can be injury prone.
Blake has only played 33 games and could not carry the ruck on his own (physically not ready)
West and Dawson have not played a senior game between them. West might be able to play some senior football as the second string ala Blake.
Dawson will only be given 40% of game time in the Vfl as West was given over the last two years. That is all that should be expected of him.

If something were to happen to either Otto or Blake, West would be promoted as Bomber plays 2 rucks.
This would leave Dawson Simpson to ruck on his own in the Vfl.
Mumford is big and strong,has good skills and seems that he has knuckled down fitness wise. His selection was in consideration of the club as a whole and could be a blessing in disguise if he becomes a quality footballer because he was given a chance.