Autopsy Round 11, 2021: Suns burn Hawks

[lethalselbow]

Is Bolton our midfield coach? Something is seriously wrong there.


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I'm not sure. There are slim pickings to choose from in that midfield. No JOM, no midfield. almost.

 

[Lotus]

I went to the player sponsor event and at least all the players that I talked to, genuinely ashamed, embarrassed and apologetic with how they've played and our team performances. They definitely want to win every game but looks like that's not the case.

We, as supporters been identified that midfield is the obvious weakness in our team. Watching Ned Reeves last night actually makes me happy. Happy with Dylan Moore as well. I was happy with Morris effort on chasing and tackling, eventhough he's only got 2 disposals.

What lacking from the team was leadership. Hence I'm looking forward to the return of fully fit Gunston. I believe he'll help organising and give on field leadrship to at least the very young forward line.

Anyway will probably watch the reply just to listen to Hodgey again.

 

[MadDawg]

I'm not sure. There are slim pickings to choose from in that midfield. No JOM, no midfield. almost.

I can't understand why Scrimshaw and Impey can't get another run in there. They looked good to quarter of two they got a few weeks back.

Now it's back to the regulars in there....because it's going so well

 

[TylerDurden]

Morris had donuts until the last quarter. Has a crack, but is clearly not ready. That's an example of playing a bloke who needs more time at VFL. Should we throw more in the mix, well then welcome to 100 point thrashings on a weekly basis.

As bad as Shiels was, he had our most possessions, clearances, contested ball. At some point we have to move on, but it's a fine balance right now.

I'm not Howe's biggest fan, but that was his best game for us in a while. Looked composed and hit targets coming out of defence. Needs to stay for now.

We have to be careful throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[LMGjr]

Didn't get to watch the game, but won't bother after reading about it on socials.

Were we really that putrid?

Also whats these Jaeger 'Rumours'?

Depends on where you sit mate - in the first qtr yes we were totally putrid; in that each player was looking at his team mate to do it.

The good news is that as the game went on we got to see a couple of kids get pissed at this and they started being proactive - could be a big turning point viewed in a certain light, as it showed who wants it - this is where/when leaders are found and the players start to trust each other or not. None of this takes away from where we are talent wise of course, but it's subtle little things like Moore and Worpel deciding they'd had enough of this s**t and Cj trying to run again even though it didn't really work out - this is the start.

It's just we're starting a fair way back compared to what the rest of comp has built.

Not sure if that helps.

 

[lethalselbow]

I can't understand why Scrimshaw and Impey can't get another run in there. They looked good to quarter of two they got a few weeks back.

Now it's back to the regulars in there....because it's going so well

Robbing the backline to prop up the midfield. I think Clarko wants a core of midfielders with guys who can pinch hit in there. from time to time. I see Scrimshaw and Impey as pinch hitters... or on the wing, from time to time.

 

[HedgeFund]

So a different coach would have us playing and performing better ?
I highly doubt it .

Why do you doubt that?

Clarkson has been a master. So was Sheedy. How did his last 6 seasons work out for the Bombers? They slowly drifted from minor premiers in 2001 to 5th, 8th, 8th, 13th and 15th and finally cut the cord when the finished 12th in 2007.

Why should we make the same mistake of sticking fat with a head coach who has seen us go from premiers in 2015 to 3rd, 12th, 4th, 9th, 15th and 17th?

It’s clearly time for our 17 season straight coach to seek new pastures.

There’s plenty of fresh, astute and progressive coaches out there who would give our list the shot in the arm it needs (as well as a fair bit of overhaul).

Clarkson is the coach who has us performing as we are. No one else.

End of the year should see a mutual parting of ways.

Great career at Hawthorn Clarko. Don’t let emotion or ego taint your legacy.

 

[lethalselbow]

Morris had donuts until the last quarter. Has a crack, but is clearly not ready. That's an example of playing a bloke who needs more time at VFL. Should we throw more in the mix, well then welcome to 100 point thrashings on a weekly basis.

As bad as Shiels was, he had our most possessions, clearances, contested ball. At some point we have to move on, but it's a fine balance right now.

I'm not Howe's biggest fan, but that was his best game for us in a while. Looked composed and hit targets coming out of defence. Needs to stay for now.

We have to be careful throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Didn't see the forward entry count, but we hardly had it down our end. And how many times did the talls bring the ball to ground? Tough night out for any small forward. Really hard position to play when a side isn't getting the ball or bringing it down like we do. I hope he gets 3 games to show something.

How many times did Hawthorn kick long to a non-moving tall and sit it on this head for the easy rebound?

 

[Hawk Dork]

Morris had donuts until the last quarter. Has a crack, but is clearly not ready. That's an example of playing a bloke who needs more time at VFL. Should we throw more in the mix, well then welcome to 100 point thrashings on a weekly basis.

I would like to see him get a few games
The kid looked like he was having a go, it just didnt happen on the stat sheet ,,,maybe tackles or pressure acts ???

 

[On Topic]

One thing I thought worked well was Reeves taking the #1 ruck role and McEvoy playing forward. When Gunston returns I'd like to see that continue but have one of Lewis and Kozi come out of the side.

Hoping we consider a side like this after the bye assuming Day, Gunston and O'Meara are fit to return. I really want to see Brockman back in the side but its probably more unlikely than likely at this stage. We really need to see more looks in the middle too.

B: Jiath, Hartigan, Hardwick
HB: Impey, Frost, Scrimshaw
C: Phillips, O'Meara, Day
HF: Wingard, McEvoy, Brockman
F: Breust, Koschitzke, Gunston
R: Reeves, Mitchell, Worpel
I/C: Shiels, Burgoyne, Cousins, Moore

Downie, Grainger Barras, Maginness, Morris, Jeka, Hanrahan, Greaves, Mitchell and Lewis will have the opportunity to force their way into this side.

 

[lethalselbow]

I think some of the discussion and comments on here are fantastic and great conversation starters. We are all one eyed Hawthorn which is great. Allowing people the space to have a different view is what it is all about.

Just because some are happy to let the build take place at the current pace doesn’t mean others need to agree or be called whingers because they have a different tone and view for how the rebuild should look.

Bleaters and whingers are always welcome. Easiest thing to post and have a sook.

Reckon jn the game thread and autopsy I've read that we should never play Shiels, Mitchell, Lewis, Phillips, Morris, Burgoyne, TOB, etc. Just potting players with nothing else more to add. Easy stuff.

Much prefer reading the ones who bleat and offer their thoughts on a solution. Though of course this doesn't need to be done and people can snipe away.

 

[The hands of stone]

Why do you doubt that?

Clarkson has been a master. So was Sheedy. How did his last 6 seasons work out for the Bombers? They slowly drifted from minor premiers in 2001 to 5th, 8th, 8th, 13th and 15th and finally cut the cord when the finished 12th in 2007.

Why should we make the same mistake of sticking fat with a head coach who has seen us go from premiers in 2015 to 3rd, 12th, 4th, 9th, 15th and 17th?

It’s clearly time for our 17 season straight coach to seek new pastures.

There’s plenty of fresh, astute and progressive coaches out there who would give our list the shot in the arm it needs (as well as a fair bit of overhaul).

Clarkson is the coach who has us performing as we are. No one else.

End of the year should see a mutual parting of ways.

Great career at Hawthorn Clarko. Don’t let emotion or ego taint your legacy.

Im talking right now currently , very open to another option for next season and beyond

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

One thing I thought worked well was Reeves taking the #1 ruck role and McEvoy playing forward. When Gunston returns I'd like to see that continue but have one of Lewis and Kozi come out of the side.

Hoping we consider a side like this after the bye assuming Day, Gunston and O'Meara are fit to return. I really want to see Brockman back in the side but its probably more unlikely than likely at this stage. We really need to see more looks in the middle too.

B: Jiath, Hartigan, Hardwick
HB: Impey, Frost, Scrimshaw
C: Phillips, O'Meara, Day
HF: Wingard, McEvoy, Brockman
F: Breust, Koschitzke, Gunston
R: Reeves, Mitchell, Worpel
I/C: Shiels, Burgoyne, Cousins, Moore

Downie, Grainger Barras, Maginness, Morris, Jeka, Hanrahan, Greaves, Mitchell and Lewis will have the opportunity to force their way into this side.

Wouldn’t you want to play someone like DGB ahead of either Hartigan or Frost?

With Impey, Hardwick and hartigan/frost I think you’d have enough experience to accommodate 1st year DGB, 4th year CJ and 5th year Scrimshaw.

also reckon you should try playing one young midfielder.With titch, Sheils, Worpel, Phillips, Howe, o’meara, cousins you’ve got enough experience in there to easily accommodate a youngster. In place of a shiels or a Howe.

 

[Steven Tyler]

I don't know about playing to minimise losses. You listen to Jom, Phillips, scrim,bb, after the game and they all lament the fact that we are not sticking to the game plan.

TheFourPillars will attest that all through preseason and at training that what we dish up is definitely not trained

Training against Hawthorn players, playing meaningful games against opposition teams



No wonder we look good at training with “structures”

 

[LMGjr]

This club, this team, this coach and these players have become accepting of losing. And it disgusts me. It's as though as soon as you label yourself as 'rebuilding' everyone thinks you aren't able to win any games or demand any standards at all.

What a load of s**t.

You're just a sore loser.

 

[Howe Amazing]

I reckon Shiels stays on the list next year playing on a half back flank so guys with more speed such as CJ play on a wing, try something different from the start of a game not when it is over.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

As everyone knows I don't expect much from this team as I think we're dogshit. But I must say we could be even worse than I thought, to play in a 15thvs 17th clash and never look like we had a chance of winning is damning. I actually thought last night would be close.

 

[Stottzy]

Morris had donuts until the last quarter. Has a crack, but is clearly not ready. That's an example of playing a bloke who needs more time at VFL. Should we throw more in the mix, well then welcome to 100 point thrashings on a weekly basis.

As bad as Shiels was, he had our most possessions, clearances, contested ball. At some point we have to move on, but it's a fine balance right now.

I'm not Howe's biggest fan, but that was his best game for us in a while. Looked composed and hit targets coming out of defence. Needs to stay for now.

We have to be careful throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

He played in a forward line that didn't see a forward entry for most of the first quarter and had putrid inside 50 entries. Offers forward pressure, which is something we've lacked in. He doesn't need more time in the VFL, he has been dominating it and earned his spot. He needs a good run of games in the seniors.

 

[Mrzohs]

One thing I thought worked well was Reeves taking the #1 ruck role and McEvoy playing forward. When Gunston returns I'd like to see that continue but have one of Lewis and Kozi come out of the side.

Hoping we consider a side like this after the bye assuming Day, Gunston and O'Meara are fit to return. I really want to see Brockman back in the side but its probably more unlikely than likely at this stage. We really need to see more looks in the middle too.

B: Jiath, Hartigan, Hardwick
HB: Impey, Frost, Scrimshaw
C: Phillips, O'Meara, Day
HF: Wingard, McEvoy, Brockman
F: Breust, Koschitzke, Gunston
R: Reeves, Mitchell, Worpel
I/C: Shiels, Burgoyne, Cousins, Moore

Downie, Grainger Barras, Maginness, Morris, Jeka, Hanrahan, Greaves, Mitchell and Lewis will have the opportunity to force their way into this side.

I like this team I will suggest 2 possible moves down further. I agree it's working well with McEvoy floating and giving Ned the chop out it also takes a good defender away from the young forwards.

I am going to go real left field here and suggest something people will disagree on. With Hartigan still serving his suspension. I would like to see Kosi at FB for a few games, I'm convinced Tob is not the answer. I am interested to see if he could be a long term soultuion there with his confidence up now let's see if he can hold it down.
I think Jeka should be in the team it would be a good idea when Mcevoy, Gunston are up in the Fwd line taking two senior defenders and educating him he might find it easier than playing with Kosi,Lewis.

Re The more looks in the middle we all agree W.Day is probably our best prospect moving fwd! Let him settle down back after his injury at first, let's get Scrimshaw & Impey up around the footy as much as possible. With Sicily and hopefully Dgb coming into this back 6 next season. We need Day,Scrim,Impey all apart of the midfield rotations, the midfield is diabolical!

 

[TylerDurden]

Hoping Day can take Phillips' spot on the wing upon his return.

 

[MadDawg]

Robbing the backline to prop up the midfield. I think Clarko wants a core of midfielders with guys who can pinch hit in there. from time to time. I see Scrimshaw and Impey as pinch hitters... or on the wing, from time to time.

True, but our list is heavy on half-back flankers and extremely low on decent midfielders - so in our dead season I'd experiment and find out what can work in the midfield.

 

[Delecate Des]

I reckon Shiels stays on the list next year playing on a half back flank so guys with more speed such as CJ play on a wing, try something different from the start of a game not when it is over.

Agree, we need try something different from the start. Especially in the middle with the Big Noodle finally giving us first use of the ball. CJ, Scrim or Impey combined with either JOM/TOM/Worps? Change it up to see if any works?? I even give Frost a burst? The big unco cannonball, just imagine the carnage!!

 

[satan1]

I just hope Phillips goes through some intensive kicking skills coaching and becomes a player.

It's amazing players get to AFL level with such deficiency? Phillips always appears off balance when he kicks. Cousins looks silky smooth then he kick with no extension, it's like he is trying to kick a ball in a phone booth.

I'd like to think we could train these guys to be proficient by foot because they do have some great traits.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

For all of Phillips deficiencies atleast he runs both ways. Always in our distance covered and sprint efforts. Problem with him is he keeps getting the ball in close.

 

[eldorado]

Reckon jn the game thread and autopsy I've read that we should never play Shiels,

I'd like to think I'm not reactionary, and not just based on last night, but I'd stand by this one.

There are some older players who are still 'first picked', but, unfortunately, I don't think from, from this season as a whole, that Shiels is there anymore...and as this season is gone, he is the most obvious casualty for thinking of nexy year and beyond.

The idea that we just dropped everyone over 28, and play all our draftees, is ridiculous, but, like Puopolo last year, there comes a point where an older guy is no longer a self-evidently better choice than a younger alternative. In this case, possibly Maginess or Downie

BTW, I probably wouldn't have said 'not to play again'...but to be depth behind other alternatives