Review Round 12, 2022 - Fremantle vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against Fremantle?

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Elixuh said:
I’d be maxing out Rayners mid time at centre bounce. He has attributes that none of our mids have and gets us proactive and moving.
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Ive seen recently on the footy shows them highlighting players that can break away from the contest in congestion. They showed the ex Suns boy doing it to us yesterday and a few other examples like Cripps and others earlier in the week and Rayner is one of the few on our team that I think can do exactly that. Ive been loving Cam's development this year and I hole heartedly agree with your post that Cam is that player that could get us going.
 
If I wasn't a Lions supporter I would have stated that it was a fairly cracking game with two teams going at it. All due respect to Freo and credit where it counts but they played better for longer. They were cleaner with the ball and their decision making going into the forward fifty was miles in front of ours.

In saying this for me it is obvious that as good as they were do you think that we would allow Brayshaw off the chain and rack up 39 disposals? Do you thin that Frederick and Banfield will play out of their skin again? It was evident for me that the Freo supporters were right behind their team and you cannot discredit the extra 5 to 10 percent assistance that makes. We do not want to be playing a finals there though.

We did a lot right but in saying that we also did a lot wrong and it was just that slight difference and a few other factors with why they got the win. We are sitting nicely and should make finals but post the bye is when things will get real. Yes the next two will be difficult to win especially having to back up on short break but they are professional athletes in a professional set-up doing what they can to get up for the Saints game.

I just feel that we have more levers to pull if we face them again. Shout out to Neale, Rayner and Berry but that's about it IMO. A lot to work with. I remember playing teams and sometimes a loss was sometimes a win because you knew you can learn something out of it and take that into the next game. Freo are flying and we're not but look where we sit. It hurts and we are close but there still is another half to go so let's see what happens.
 
Elixuh said:
I’d be maxing out Rayners mid time at centre bounce. He has attributes that none of our mids have and gets us proactive and moving.
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He and Neale really do seem like the only two that actually move around a stoppage, I think Bailey tries to do it as well when he’s in there but either runs to the wrong spot, is too attacking or just fumbles a bit too much still. Dev can do it as well with a bit more confidence and time in there.
 

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I think they showed a stat in the first quarter that we had 10 intercept marks or forward half turnovers and we had only kicked 2 goals. They had the answer for every good chance we had early on. We had similar stats early in the Hawks game and weren't able to score either.

We don't have any key forwards in form, neither of our rucks were taking contested marks and our key defenders were down as well. We've got plenty of improvement to come just need a game to get everyones confidence up...
 
briztoon said:
King pointed this out on First Crack.

Daniel Rich.

But they’ll have made the GF.

We won’t.

That’s poor form, and the type of behaviour all players, clubs, and AFL has been calling.
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I didn't say they definitely won't make a GF. My point was that even if they do they won't win it and therefore "flagmantle" will be a joke.
 
Having Daniher back will be a big help. One of our big issues last night was aerial ability around the ground. It just wasn’t there. Having a McStay or Hipwood further up the ground while still having good coverage i50 will be a big positive.
 
Squizz89 said:
The first 9 games of the year we were averaging 70 points against. In the last 3 weeks that has blown out to 104. Some major red flags defensively there.

I don’t think the pressure defensively in the middle has gotten any worse, I just don’t think the defensive unit can hold the tide back any longer.
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I think the opposition has just worked us out.
 
dlanod said:
Make sure you don't pull anything, patting yourself on your back so vigorously! ;)

(Nah, all good calls.)
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Honestly I just wanted to see if I'd got the predicted score right and then was pretty happy with the rest of my prediction.

But also it made me a little sad too. I feel like if an amateur like me can predict what will happen, then the coaches should be able to do more to stop it. But also some times you just to back your team in.
 
Harris Andrews' form is a massive issue. Gets beaten almost every time he goes near it, doesn't lock down, is not talking marks, is failing to kill aerial balls, no physical pressure on opponents, letting the ball over the back regularly. This is putting huge pressure on our small defenders and contributing to the panicked decisions and turnovers. The old Harris Andrews is gone (he has been declining for the last couple of years). May missing at Melbourne has shown how important having a player who can take the relieving marks is. It needs to be addressed. Perhaps Payne in to lock down, let Harris roam forward, middle, wherever the game needs him, 1 ruck?
If Andrews isn't intercepting and taking contested marks, he is of little value in the side. Slow, poor beneath his knees, average user of the ball.
 
KissKiss said:
Honestly I just wanted to see if I'd got the predicted score right and then was pretty happy with the rest of my prediction.

But also it made me a little sad too. I feel like if an amateur like me can predict what will happen, then the coaches should be able to do more to stop it. But also some times you just to back your team in.
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We just have a few too many players not quite at their best and a couple out of form. But still good enough to be our best options .

It doesn't take much to go from wining games to dropping them against better opposition when you're in that situation.
 
I think Jaxon needs a rest. Id push clug out to the wing/outside and bring matho into the middle. We need to win more clearance contested ball out of the middle.
 

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It is unlikely to happen this season but going forward we really need to look at injecting some more pace and kicking skill to our midfield. Starcevich or Coleman to a wing would help in this regard.

I agree Lyons is a bit of a concern right now. He needs to be winning centre clearances and clearly he and the team are not doing well in this department. We always knew he was going to be exposed the other way. We lived with that because he was getting plenty of the pill and winning clearances.

Harris Andrews is a worry and has been for a while - he was injured last year but I also think what made him good is now his Achilles heel. Teams know he zones off. They are going to his opponent all the time and he is often getting blocked by forwards and getting to contests half a second to late. That said he is still one of the better defenders in the game and perhaps his early high standards mean we asses him to hard at times. He is always going to be a much better defender when our mids are forcing the opposition to pressure kick into forward 50.

We will welcome back Daniher because he will straighten is up with forward 50 entires and of course take the best defender. Charlie needs to get back to leading and getting to the fall of the ball. Wrestling is not his go. That said he should have got about 3/4 more free kicks last night - was being blatantly held.

This week is a must win and then we can take a well deserved break before the Dees match up when us Melbourne Lions supporters can finally see the team again live!
 
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I guess that's the reality when you have a few players well off their best isn't it.

You can carry a couple out of form .

When you get up to 5 or 6 you'll struggle to win games. Or squeak in in the ones you should be winning easily.

I'm feeling a little more positively now the dust has settled. We were beaten comprehensively when the heat was on but not that much on the scoreboard.

The question is have we overrated some guys or are they just not at their best presently.
 
First time being in the drinking area with my family next to a whole bunch of Freo supporters........ Never again, just pure feral. Had my 4 year old there and they were spewing profanities. Going back to the alcohol free zone next year.

In terms of the game (I say this but l just follow the game by game play and miss other things as l only see them once a year), Honestly Big O appeared ineffectual, would rather Fort at this stage. Every game, there is always seems to be a free player (for the oppo) out the back or to the far wing, don't know why we rarely find a player like that. Adams and Andrews don't seem to be playing very well, not many intercept marks.

I think throughout many of the seasons, a great defence seems to triumph a great forward line. I remember one of the teams who had a great defence beat Sydney in the GF iirc who had a great forward line with Buddy in it. We have played against several great defences over the years and just never seem to beat them

Edit: oh and before l forget, yes l know the umpires absolutly did not impact the result but my god, some of the missed free's far out. Did one of those Freo guys stage?
 
I think the issue with our back 6 mix is our height/athleticism. Adams (while he is wide) and Diz only stand at 192cm each. That’s Berry’s height. Long balls in are killing us! I think we desperately need Payne in and given some time. I am gutted he got injured on the weekend. If Payne can play Adams role it will free up Harris or Adams to play that intercept role depending how the forward line of the opposition set up. Payne’s foot skills (while he is partial to the occasional shocker) are rather solid for a man his size. A bit more pace around the middle and shore up our back 6 and we are right back in this.
 
A few general comments on the game:



  • We need to get our forwards to lead at the ball and we need to honour the lead and don’t just bomb it onto their heads.
  • In the first quarter we were getting a great contribution from our younger guys like Robertson and Coleman and then went away from that for the rest of the game. I don’t understand why.
  • Our clearance group are too often outbodied and when they don’t get the ball are way too slow to react. Lyons in particular, if he doesn’t win the ball he is a liability. We were much better defensively in the first when Robertson was playing onball. His pace changed the dynamic.
  • We went too negative in the midfield with Berry and Robertson both playing run with roles and not looking to win their own ball.
  • Our structures make our wingers completely redundant offensively. Robertson when moved outside was invisible, Prior largely so and Ah Chee managed only three disposals in the second half after coming on fresh at half time. They are running defensively to cover for the likes of Lyons and McCluggage but we just cannot have them having zero impact going forward.
  • I liked the forward pressure we applied. This was a step up from most games this season. Also the onball pressure in the first half was great and if we can work to sustain that for a whole game we will be able to beat anyone.


On some of the players specifically:



  • Rich – getting a bit of grief but I thought he was very good. Defensively he was very good when he was around it and killed a lot of forward moves. With the ball in hand he didn’t go for too much but he hit his targets. He is certainly not one I would be worried about.
  • Andrews – again I did not see that he did too much wrong. His opponent got a few goals but Andrews was right with him and Lobb just happened to clunk a couple. He is not playing at his best but this game was solid. As I have mentioned previously I do think he would benefit from Payne being in the side to free him up to attack the ball more. The other defenders lack height.
  • Answerth – was well beaten and continues to struggle with his disposal. It is time to get a look at someone else.
  • Coleman – is the best kick in the team delivering it into forward 50. We need to structure it so he is fed more ball. His kicking is a weapon which is still not used enough by the team.
  • Lyons – if he doesn’t win the clearance he is a liability. Not sure I have ever seen a mid so slow to react. He is fairly easily outbodied onball as well.
  • Rayner – is progressing well. He is an impact player at the moment who has a great ability to burst from clearances. Hopefully by the finals he will be playing mostly onball and doing that the whole game.
  • Hipwood and McStay – both still not 100% but are coming back.
  • Ah Chee – added nothing in the second half after coming on fresh.
  • Robertson – is not an outside mid. He is an inside mid who is reasonably useful up forward applying pressure. He needs to be used that way.
  • McCluggage – is an outside mid and needs to be used that way. Needs to work harder defensively as well.
  • Bailey – very dangerous in the second half. Hopefully this signals the bounce back.
 
Looking back now the red mist has settled it's a little easier to get a handle on yesterday.

I get as frustrated as anyone watching a game... and I could have singled out a dozen players for a spray at various times if I was Fages. Reading this board it's been exactly the same... Andrews, Oscar, JL, Zorko, Adams, Answerth, Robertson, Prior... the list goes on.

What it shows is probably where we are as a team... generally down. And it doesn't take much to tip the scales when you are just a fraction off your best.

Freo were up and about yesterday. They knew the importance of that win and had the confidence to match after beating Melbourne. They wanted it more - and had more to prove by winning it.

I'm pretty sure our coaches know our deficiencies. We know our midfeild has been a little one dimensional. That's why this year Rayner, Berry, McLuggage, Bailey have all rolled through there. It's why McCarthy lined up there last night at times. This is something that's a work in progress. It's being tinkered with and worked on. Sure we'd all like instant results but until we put these new combinations under the heat of real competition we don't know what's going to work and what's not.

The 6-6-6 rule has created a so many scoring opportunities out of the centre it's such a vital component to get right now. We got punished yesterday for getting it wrong. But to me, rather than highlighting the deficiencies in individual players it simply shows how much we as a team rely on all players contributing to our game plan not individual brilliance.

We've got work to do no question. And we have to find a way to maintain consistency in matches, and shut down momentum swings. But I think we pressured ourselves into mistakes yesterday and saw a lot of work go for little reward. Effort was there but poise and polish left us as we felt the heat of the game - and the crowd.

There's plenty of time left in this season. We've been the most consistent team in the comp for 3 years... Even with all the "deficiencies" we've got. There's no one in the seconds who will fix our immediate problems. Nor is there a magic trade waiting to happen (or cap space).

We just need to regroup and find that spark. It's been a grueling 5 or 6 weeks and most teams would struggle with our travel load this year. The bye can't come quick enough for both a mental and physical refresh.
 
Quigley said:
A few general comments on the game:



  • We need to get our forwards to lead at the ball and we need to honour the lead and don’t just bomb it onto their heads.
  • In the first quarter we were getting a great contribution from our younger guys like Robertson and Coleman and then went away from that for the rest of the game. I don’t understand why.
  • Our clearance group are too often outbodied and when they don’t get the ball are way too slow to react. Lyons in particular, if he doesn’t win the ball he is a liability. We were much better defensively in the first when Robertson was playing onball. His pace changed the dynamic.
  • We went too negative in the midfield with Berry and Robertson both playing run with roles and not looking to win their own ball.
  • Our structures make our wingers completely redundant offensively. Robertson when moved outside was invisible, Prior largely so and Ah Chee managed only three disposals in the second half after coming on fresh at half time. They are running defensively to cover for the likes of Lyons and McCluggage but we just cannot have them having zero impact going forward.
  • I liked the forward pressure we applied. This was a step up from most games this season. Also the onball pressure in the first half was great and if we can work to sustain that for a whole game we will be able to beat anyone.


On some of the players specifically:



  • Rich – getting a bit of grief but I thought he was very good. Defensively he was very good when he was around it and killed a lot of forward moves. With the ball in hand he didn’t go for too much but he hit his targets. He is certainly not one I would be worried about.
  • Andrews – again I did not see that he did too much wrong. His opponent got a few goals but Andrews was right with him and Lobb just happened to clunk a couple. He is not playing at his best but this game was solid. As I have mentioned previously I do think he would benefit from Payne being in the side to free him up to attack the ball more. The other defenders lack height.
  • Answerth – was well beaten and continues to struggle with his disposal. It is time to get a look at someone else.
  • Coleman – is the best kick in the team delivering it into forward 50. We need to structure it so he is fed more ball. His kicking is a weapon which is still not used enough by the team.
  • Lyons – if he doesn’t win the clearance he is a liability. Not sure I have ever seen a mid so slow to react. He is fairly easily outbodied onball as well.
  • Rayner – is progressing well. He is an impact player at the moment who has a great ability to burst from clearances. Hopefully by the finals he will be playing mostly onball and doing that the whole game.
  • Hipwood and McStay – both still not 100% but are coming back.
  • Ah Chee – added nothing in the second half after coming on fresh.
  • Robertson – is not an outside mid. He is an inside mid who is reasonably useful up forward applying pressure. He needs to be used that way.
  • McCluggage – is an outside mid and needs to be used that way. Needs to work harder defensively as well.
  • Bailey – very dangerous in the second half. Hopefully this signals the bounce back.
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Great summary. We looked much more secure defensively when we ran with Robertson at centre bounces. He, Rayner and Neale combined nicely.
 
Nunez said:
Great summary. We looked much more secure defensively when we ran with Robertson at centre bounces. He, Rayner and Neale combined nicely.
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That’s the mix I’d like to see more of, with Hugh, Bailey and Zorko swapping in. Lyons giving Neale a rest but can we carry Lyons just for the 20% game time Neale is resting, probably not. I don’t think it’s an issue with our midfield not being big enough because Freo’s mids aren’t any bigger than ours, they were just more physical than all but Rayner.
 
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