Autopsy Round 15, 2020: Hawks lose to the Crows

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Noel Gallagher

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There was a lot of speculation here that Burton was hard work off the field and didn’t fit in at the club. If that was the case, it would go some way explaining what happened.
hmmm - key word being sp
Your quote is up there, word for word.

Feel free to say "I think the modern game has has left Clarko behind", and that's fine.

As soon as you start telling people that if they do share your opinion they are delusional, it's a sh*t post.

Can you see the difference?

Without getting into semantics I agree (with Gaston) Clarkson has lowered his colors this year multiple times... Complaining about umpires, being stuck in hubs, the "Geelong arn't that good" comment after they humiliated us, the very recent list numbers whinge and the continual backing of senior players well past their best.

IMO he has looked tired, stressed and out of sorts all year and that's not a criticism. In our golden years he had the best of the best underneath him - Fagan, Evans, Dimma, Ratthen etc as assistant coaches/operational roles - they have all been poached and he has had to go it alone for the past 2-3 years. I think that he has taken on too much and I never liked the idea of Bolton coming back - what the hell does he actually do???

Don't know what the answer is but our coach has had a really down year this year. We need serious changes in not only our playing list but whole coaching set up..
 

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darthmann

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To be fair, would Cogs have made much difference this year? Maybe another win or 2 at best.
given what has happened it's almost better that it didn't happen, because we'd probably just view this year as an aberration and run it back next

at least now we've seen a truckload of deficiencies in our list which we can begin to address rather than hiding it under Cogs
 

Gralin

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Depends what you are wanting to achieve. If you are looking at a plan where we can win the flag in the next 2-3 years, then maybe you'd look at Wingard, but we are not at that stage. It's going to be a long haul back, and Burton would have been ideal as an onfield leader (along the lines of a Hodge, etc) in the next 4-5 years. Burton would be my pick for the future.
Burton has managed 5 games this year, he managed 2 more than Chad last year, his body has yet to show it will hold up for a full AFL career

He's not a leader, he's playing HBF and isn't a match winner.

Chad has the ability to be a match winner but we aren't using him very well at the moment, most of the team we aren't using that well at the moment though

Straight comparison I'd rather have Chad on the list
 

Turly

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Don't just crap and run away, how about you tell me why you think that? This is what I detest about BigFooty, people who have a go at you but don't back it up with facts or examples. So ... take 2.
How about you tell us about this so called leadership? Where are your facts and examples of this Hodge like leadership.

I’ll tell you one thing, the players weren’t exactly upset to see him go. He is a flog and absolutely loves himself. This has been noted many times.
 

Bugs1977

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The dilusional might not think so but I think the modern game has left Clarko behind.
Sure, we don't have certain cattle but the list was moulded in part by Clarkson and in that we have missed the boat
via recruitment. Sides with pace were always our kryponite and now, well, every side has pace, except.......
I wouldn't say Geelong, Brisbane or West Coast have that much pace. They might be little faster but not to the point where I'd say its a huge gap.

I find it hilarious that now because we are losing that some are starting to throw Clarko under the bus. So much for riding the bumps with a grin or while we're at it one for all and all for one. Over the last couple of days I've read some around here say that Clarko is almost out of the credits that he's accrued over the years. No one like us to be where we are right not but FFS give the guy a chance to right the ship.
 

Bugs1977

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You don't judge a sportsman by the way they lose but by the way they win.

That was told to me directly once by sporting legend and a multiple world champion in his chosen sport. Its always something I've remembered and it amazes me how people just can't seem to help themsleves to lay the boot in when their team wins.

I also can't stand it when players do things like Papley's gobfull to Titch after he scored that goal a few games ago or the good old cricket send off. So unnecessary and makes you come across as a prize tosser.
You are so right. Winning should be and really always has been enough. It's the classless that feel the need to gloat or as they say 'all a** and no class'.
 

Bugs1977

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i feel your pain. I have the same problem over here with West Coast and Freo supporters.
As Hawthorn fans we've all copped it in some shape or form. Living in NSW the 2012 GF was murder for me when we choked against the Swans. You SA and WA Hawthorn supporters might have had to deal with a regular season loss hear and there but trust me the pain I experienced that day against those pricks still hurts to this day. My old man who is a Swans man didn't visit me for about 2 weeks 😂
 

Bugs1977

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It's a two team town and this is literally the only good thing Crows supporters have had in the last 12 months. Of course they're going to milk it.

I do feel for SA based Hawk supporters. Hopefully the draft picks make up for this discomfort.
The SA Hawk fans should take solace in the fact that the team that was marched out there wasn't chosen to win. Make of that what you will but it is what it is. I don't like, our fans don't like it and you can see Clarko doesn't like it. The sooner this cluster f**k of a season / year is over with the better.
 

Bugs1977

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Burton has managed 5 games this year, he managed 2 more than Chad last year, his body has yet to show it will hold up for a full AFL career

He's not a leader, he's playing HBF and isn't a match winner.

Chad has the ability to be a match winner but we aren't using him very well at the moment, most of the team we aren't using that well at the moment though

Straight comparison I'd rather have Chad on the list
The true test for Burton will come over the next couple of years and how the kms put into his surgically repaired knee holds up. That injury he had was no joke and was compared directly to someone who had been in a car crash. Also forgive me if this is wrong but I do recall it mentioned here that his GF was starting to get homesick and wanted to go back to SA. If this is true then the club should be praised in taking action before he could've upped and left without compensation.
 

Stratton24

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The true test for Burton will come over the next couple of years and how the kms put into his surgically repaired knee holds up. That injury he had was no joke and was compared directly to someone who had been in a car crash. Also forgive me if this is wrong but I do recall it mentioned here that his GF was starting to get homesick and wanted to go back to SA. If this is true then the club should be praised in taking action before he could've upped and left without compensation.
In 2018 The Hawks asked if he was interested to extend his contract from 2020 to 2021 or 2022 and he said no - wanted to wait until mid 2020 to start talks
 

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Bugs1977

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In 2018 The Hawks asked if he was interested to extend his contract from 2020 to 2021 or 2022 and he said no - wanted to wait until mid 2020 to start talks
Wonder who is manager is. Sounds like he wanted an overpay. Anyways he’s old news now and I’m happy with Chad. Just need to get some guys that can deliver him and others the ball properly.
 

SSSSSS

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To be fair, would Cogs have made much difference this year? Maybe another win or 2 at best.
Morale is everything. A short French conqueror said as much and I'm sure our short conqueror at the helm would agree.

Confidence is infectious. Who knows what could have happened with a few extra early wins. Our boys look completely mentally checked out, and why wouldn't they be? Having to endure the hubs with absolutely nothing to play for.
 

MinerBoy

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Why the fu** are people still lamenting letting Burton go? He did nothing in his last season for us and has done SFA all in 2 seasons since.

Chad's best 5 games already outdo his past 3 seasons and the person playing the same position (Scrimshaw) has shown infinitely more.

Of all the gripes we can have, letting Burton go sits so far down the list.
 

Noel Gallagher

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Why the fu** are people still lamenting letting Burton go? He did nothing in his last season for us and has done SFA all in 2 seasons since.

Chad's best 5 games already outdo his past 3 seasons and the person playing the same position (Scrimshaw) has shown infinitely more.

Of all the gripes we can have, letting Burton go sits so far down the list.
SFA is a bit harsh. Burton can play, no doubt about it. Personally I think he is still ahead of Scrimshaw but his body is starting to let him down already. Think he will be one of those players who will be done by age 30 due to his horrific knee injury. My fundamental issue with the whole Chad deal is giving (along with Burton ) our first rounder - Xavier Dursma AND a second round pick. Burton and our first rounder was plenty for a player they couldn't walk out the door quick enough.

To put things into perspective we could have used it on Noah Balta who is shaping up to be a dead set gun key backmen - something we desperately need. Sick of getting reamed in trade deals - other teams know that we will pay overs for a player we desperately need.
 

Stratton24

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SFA is a bit harsh. Burton can play, no doubt about it. Personally I think he is still ahead of Scrimshaw but his body is starting to let him down already. Think he will be one of those players who will be done by age 30 due to his horrific knee injury. My fundamental issue with the whole Chad deal is giving (along with Burton ) our first rounder - Xavier Dursma AND a second round pick. Burton and our first rounder was plenty for a player they couldn't walk out the door quick enough.

To put things into perspective we could have used it on Noah Balta who is shaping up to be a dead set gun key backmen - something we desperately need. Sick of getting reamed in trade deals - other teams know that we will pay overs for a player we desperately need.
Balta was drafted in 2017. We traded for Wingard in 2018.
 

Slow Love

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Ah

haha thanks. You are technically correct (the best kind of correct) of course, they are lower on the ladder.

Given that we just copped a 6 goal loss to Radelaide though, I feel like we are currently the worst.
I can see where you're coming from, mate, I feel the same way

Very hard to reconcile this loss considering we beat Brisbane and Richmond earlier in the season and we were right in it against the ladder leaders a couple of weeks ago

I could try to puzzle it out - why is our best so far apart from our worst? But I guess I'll just join everyone else in hoping that early draft picks will make everything better
 

thejockey

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hmmm - key word being sp



Without getting into semantics I agree (with Gaston) Clarkson has lowered his colors this year multiple times... Complaining about umpires, being stuck in hubs, the "Geelong arn't that good" comment after they humiliated us, the very recent list numbers whinge and the continual backing of senior players well past their best.

IMO he has looked tired, stressed and out of sorts all year and that's not a criticism. In our golden years he had the best of the best underneath him - Fagan, Evans, Dimma, Ratthen etc as assistant coaches/operational roles - they have all been poached and he has had to go it alone for the past 2-3 years. I think that he has taken on too much and I never liked the idea of Bolton coming back - what the hell does he actually do???

Don't know what the answer is but our coach has had a really down year this year. We need serious changes in not only our playing list but whole coaching set up..
The whole club has had a genuine stinker and Clarko is a huge part of that .

Said elsewhere he went on the distract and deflect operative early in the piece. Was like he knew where in trouble and was trying to manufacter a competitive and killer mentality back into the group.

The guy looks like he needs a decent rest and reset from the game .
Ill back him in too , no doubt about it .
 

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