Preview Round 23- Lions v Tigers. Sunday 25th August 2019 3.20pm MCG.

[martinson]

He doesn't lay that many tackles and he hasn't really kicked goals.

He does tend to be the link up player when he's on which is good.

That's sort of my concern. He doesn't really apply enough pressure for a guy that doesn't touch the ball enough and he doesn't impact on the scoreboard enough to compensate for it.

True . Why do people fail to acknowledge what they're looking at every week.

I can remember a couple of decent games but....

It's probably too late now to know how we would go without him so just hoping natural improvement comes

 

[carnaroys08]

Typical big gutsy call after we've won 9 in a row , just rolling the dice that we can't keep it up .

It's just great that we have all these knockers , they won't believe we're top of the ladder.

Well we are.

I've mentioned this before on Big Footy, Plough wrote a Feature Article "Why the Lions can't win the Flag" towards the end of one of our Premiership years

 

[Nunez]

Is a pressure act registered if a player lays a tackle?

Yep.

The definition I could find online outlines a pressure act:

A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.

With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.

Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act".

 

[Nunez]

True . Why do people fail to acknowledge what they're looking at every week.

I can remember a couple of decent games but....

It's probably too late now to know how we would go without him so just hoping natural improvement comes

We're #1 on the AFL ladder and the highest scoring team in the league. Do you not trust he is doing what the coaches want given how well we are going?

 

[BRAB]

Yep.

The definition I could find online outlines a pressure act:

A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.

With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.

Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act".

Well not sure where his stats are coming from them as he misses a heap of tackles he should lay.

Thought maybe the fact that McCarthy sticks his tackles may have lead to the discrepancy.

Didn't realise his pressure was that high so perhaps it's easier to remember the times it doesn't pay off for him.

 

[Lace Out]

Get the Rayner s**t out of this thread

 

[Nunez]

Well not sure where his stats are coming from them as he misses a heap of tackles he should lay.

Thought maybe the fact that McCarthy sticks his tackles may have lead to the discrepancy.

Didn't realise his pressure was that high so perhaps it's easier to remember the times it doesn't pay off for him.

It's an easily missed, yet very important stat.

Funnily enough Rayner is averaging 2 less tackles a game than McCarthy - both of who have had tackle numbers lol.

 

[martinson]

He didn't 'run himself into fitness'. He changed programs which as a result allowed him to adjust his weight so he could spend more time up the ground. This has been confirmed by both Cam and people at the club.

No chance in hell Fagan played him if he was unfit, especially later in the season.

It's not logical at all.



Are you judging pressure purely by tackles?

The past month he's had 14, 18, 13 and 13 pressure acts playing predominantly as a forward. They're elite numbers.

Comparatively, McCarthy has had 15, 15, 13 and 9 pressure acts playing a lot more time in the middle.

Hopefully that gives you some perspective.

You've just lost it over this buddy.

I never said he was unfit . I said he came back not so fit . He's acknowledged that himself . The club was aware of it . He didn't look totally fit ,lots of puppy fat which you would expect of a kid of his build after the off season. They've changed his diet.

Whatever. The Carlton game was where we should've done something ,that's years ago , he's only one player ,no one has any problem suggesting anyone else is under pressure for their spot ,people let comments on Hipwood ,McCarthy , Robinson and others who apparently should've been dropped go through to the keeper and a player who's been well below average all year draws all this overwhelming support.

I support him too . But crikey , just be realistic about his performance.

 

[martinson]

Well not sure where his stats are coming from them as he misses a heap of tackles he should lay.

Thought maybe the fact that McCarthy sticks his tackles may have lead to the discrepancy.

Didn't realise his pressure was that high so perhaps it's easier to remember the times it doesn't pay off for him.

Watch the games and record the pressure acts for yourself.

The stats sheet on for these critical but intangible acts are not always accurate.

 

[Nunez]

You've just lost it over this buddy.

I never said he was unfit . I said he came back not so fit . He's acknowledged that himself . The club was aware of it . He didn't look totally fit ,lots of puppy fat which you would expect of a kid of his build after the off season. They've changed his diet.

Whatever. The Carlton game was where we should've done something ,that's years ago , he's only one player ,no one has any problem suggesting anyone else is under pressure for their spot ,people let comments on Hipwood ,McCarthy , Robinson and others who apparently should've been dropped go through to the keeper and a player who's been well below average all year draws all this overwhelming support.

I support him too . But crikey , just be realistic about his performance.

How is anybody meant to interpret "not so fit" as anything but unfit?

I've said I would have dropped him earlier in the year, but his form post bye has justified his spot in the team.

Once again, we are in top of the ladder, are the highest scoring team in the comp and have an undefeated reserves team. If he wasn't doing what the coaches wanted he would have been dropped.

 

[Nunez]

Watch the games and record the pressure acts for yourself.

The stats sheet on for these critical but intangible acts are not always accurate.

Yeah BRAB please watch every Rayner frame and report back instead of trusting the stats as being 99% accurate.

 

[LionsMaw]

Who would have thought we would be going into the final round of the season 1st on the ladder? What a fantastic season it has been, from 5 wins last season to a yet unfinished 16 wins this season. Kudos to Chris Fagan, David Noble, Greg Swan, the welfare department, medical/rehab teams and the rest of the coaching and administration group.
View attachment 728822 LETS PAY HOMAGE TO OUR 3 MESSIAHS.

We will be going into this game knowing what we need to do, if we beat the Tigers we will finish 1st or 2nd and guarantee ourselves 2 home finals and the very real possibility of not leaving the Gabba until Grand Final day, a lot still to play for.
View attachment 728852 V View attachment 728855

The Tigers play a totally different brand of footy to the Cats so we will need to adjust. They play a surge the ball forward in numbers game, if you lift the pressure on them they can hurt you and hurt you quickly, we will have to bring our best defensive pressure around the ball and cut off those quick handball chains of possession in numbers, if we can do this I think we can force them into one too many handballs and get them on the turnover.

Match ups-
Marcus Adams > Jack Reiwoldt.
Harris Andrews > Tom Lynch.
Jarrod Berry > Dustin Martin.
In Answerth/Rich/Hodge/Gardiner I think we have the mix that can keep their smalls quiet. I also think we have the midfield to match them. On a good note they do not have an obvious match up for Charlie Cameron, could very likely get off the chain again. I like the mix in our forward 50 to keep them occupied, although we will have to improve on what we did v the Cats and not bomb it long so often or Grimes, Astbury and co will zone off and intercept it. I'm confident we will have learnt some quick lessons from the Cats game re this.

Changes- From the presser it looks like it will only be Allen Christensen out. Chris Fagan was saying that Darcy's shoulder was just a stinger and he should be fine.

Out- Allen Christensen(Hamstring)

In- Cedric Cox/Ben Keays.

I'll reserve judgment on who comes in until after the NEAFL game tomorrow, if Cedric has another good game I'd bring him in for Bundy otherwise reward Ben Keays for a very consistent reserves season, he has been banging on the selection table all year.

How we win > (KISS)-

Once the basic game structure and style has been bedded down really well which I think ours has been very quickly by Fagan and co I think footy is a pretty simple game so IMO if we bring the heat, desire and intensity with a good helping of composure we have the players/weapons/structure that can get the job done against any team in the competition.

I have included a poll for those that want to predict how much we win by.

Liiiiiiiiiiiioooooooooooooooooons!

Rd 4 last year.......not too worried about match ups, coach would know better than me about that.....COMPOSURE is what I'm concerned about. We are obviously not the same easy beats we were last year but in front of a large very pro-tigers crowd it worries me that we will freeze up.

 

[martinson]

Yeah BRAB please watch every Rayner frame and report back instead of trusting the stats as being 99% accurate.

They're not totally accurate. Nothing to do with Rayner.

Look at the pressure acts in any game and go back and watch it and record them.

Everyone knows that . The obvious ones are accurate. The half obvious or ones which end up actually aiding the opposition are still recorded as pressure acts.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Let's see how the Lions play away

Lions win 2 in a row away

Let's see how the Lions play against a top 4 team

Lions beat Geelong

Lions have been a surprise packet but not sure if they are the real deal. Let's see how they go against the Tigers.

Lions beat Tigers

Lions beat the Tiges at the G' but haven't won a final for 10 years, let's see how they go in the QF.

Lions win the QF

Looking like a nice up and coming team, into a prelim for the first time in 15 years! How cool! Still think they lack experience to make the granny!

Lions win the cup

Certainly a contender for 2020 but don't think it's their year this ye.....oh.

 

[Nunez]

They're not totally accurate. Nothing to do with Rayner.

Look at the pressure acts in any game and go back and watch it and record them.

Everyone knows that . The obvious ones are accurate. The half obvious or ones which end up actually aiding the opposition are still recorded as pressure acts.

What's your point in the context of this discussion?

We are discussing Rayner and part of that discussion was Rayners pressure acts and your response was "go and watch the game as the stats aren't accurate".

Would you agree that Rayners pressure has been particularly good the past month?

 

[Yidaki]

Apparently this is a gimme game according to Tiger fans. That's what they said last year before the prelim. They just don't learn. All the best to your boys. What a stellar year. Fagan has been perfect for you guys.

 

[LionsMaw]

Plough's gone early

I love that we are so easily dismissed as no chance. The astounding arrogance it must take to think that the team currently at the top of

the ladder will simply be brushed aside by the team fourth on the ladder. I'm not suggesting it will be easy but our chances of winning,

assuming, like I posted earlier, we don't freeze up, are actually pretty ******* good. I want Wallace to be prepared to apologise for his

dismissive attitude should we come out of the other side of next week's clash the victors.

 

[martinson]

What's your point in the context of this discussion?

We are discussing Rayner and part of that discussion was Rayners pressure acts and your response was "go and watch the game as the stats aren't accurate".

Would you agree that Rayners pressure has been particularly good the past month?

You're just twitchy over anything where Rayner's name crops up

My response to pressure acts was not to do with Rayner but as to the accuracy of pressure acts stats.. as it pertains to any player. I said go and watch ANY game between any clubs.

His form has been fair the past month and poor yesterday. I've seen him apply more pressure than he had been in the first half of the year ,but nothing outstanding . IMO

You're flogging a dead horse .

 

[Nunez]

You're just twitchy over anything where Rayner's name crops up

My response to pressure acts was not to do with Rayner but as to the accuracy of pressure acts stats.. as it pertains to any player. I said go and watch ANY game between any clubs.

His form has been fair the past month and poor yesterday. I've seen him apply more pressure than he had been in the first half of the year ,but nothing outstanding . IMO

You're flogging a dead horse .

How am I twitchy when his name pops up? We're literally discussing him so that is just a plain stupid comment.

It came up literally in the middle of a conversation about Rayner, why would I not put two and two together?

No point discussing further.

 

[martinson]

How am I twitchy when his name pops up? We're literally discussing him so that is just a plain stupid comment.

It came up literally in the middle of a conversation about Rayner, why would I not put two and two together?

No point discussing further.

Likewise

 

[3KZ is Football]

Sorry to harp on this but I just don't think that not touching the ball much is role.

LOL!

 

[CarterS]

So, what do we all think of Rayner?!

 

[M Malice]

I probably should have left creating this thread a few days so it didn't turn into an "Operation drop Rayner" discussion.

 

[BangyBangy]

I'm not sure as a group we talk about Rayner enough.

C'mon we all know Fagan isn't dropping Rayner now. Let's all jump on the Rayner train. All aboard.

From what I see, he's really not far away from being awesome in games. So close to being awesome doesn't come up on a stat sheet so it's easy to miss.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

RaynOr