Autopsy Round 24, 2023: Brisbane v St.Kilda

[Cairnsman]

No idea who would have been left out but I doubt it was ever going to be Nas, Owens and Phillipou. Even Windy was set to play early prior to breaking his wrist.

Lyon said numerous times that it was a year of exploration and now with a fit list we still continue to play kids.

Yes but there has been some decent assets not playing and so the point I'm making is we shouldn't guess that playing the kids wasn't forced onto Lyon.

The positive is there has been a silver lining but it's a stretch to claim it was by design.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I suspect the plan was for him to be the third man up in some sort of team defence against Andrews when the ball went deep into the forward line but that didn't seem to work out that well.

It will be intriguing to see which way they go simply because each of the three (Hayes, Sharman and Caminiti) play the role of 3rd tall slightly differently (and have different strengths) and that means the game plan would have to be tweaked depending on who gets a game.

Actually just realised that it might be 4 into 2 situation for the tall forwards.

If they bring Howard back in then you can add Cordy to the forward mix. King, Membrey and one of Cordy, Hayes, Sharman or Caminiti.

Selection dilemma's - how long since we've had those. Thought Byrnes showed why he's a keeper and will get another contract.

The media (and posters) going on about how Lions should have thumped us if they'd kicked straight should have a look at the centre clearance tallies.

We were thumped in general stoppages but won the centre clearances.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So you are saying Coff, Members, Jones, DMac, Hayes King would have been left out of the side to play kids?

We’ll never know will we?
Lyon is not necessarily the same coach he was before.
Either way, it’s a moot point. We played them, and however you choose to see it we have taken definite strides forward this season.

We all know what’s missing, but nobody can say our season has not been a huge improvement over the past few years and that our team is in a much better place. In the 8 all year, we finished (so far) exactly where we deserve to be. Haven’t beaten the teams above us, beaten the majority of the teams below and on our level.

Hugely important trade/draft period coming up.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think Paton should be in consideration too down back- I know Webster is a hard nut and a good competitor, but I reckon Paton is a bit more agile and is a good mark for his size.

 

[Cairnsman]

We’ll never know will we?
Lyon is not necessarily the same coach he was before.
Either way, it’s a moot point. We played them, and however you choose to see it we have taken definite strides forward this season.

We all know what’s missing, but nobody can say our season has not been a huge improvement over the past few years and that our team is in a much better place. In the 8 all year, we finished (so far) exactly where we deserve to be. Haven’t beaten the teams above us, beaten the majority of the teams below and on our level.

Hugely important trade/draft period coming up.

No question the year has helped accelerated the development of some players due to our injury crisis, it's been a real positive to get games into players who clearly might have been stuck at Sandy, that we know for sure. The finals experience is going to be a bonus too provided we don't get smashed in week one.

Still a lot of list changes needed though if we are to develop into a team capable of sustained top 4 appearances.

 

[The Cobra]

Apologies to giving Clark the spray I didnt know he was injured, sorry.

Does anyone know if Jones will be available for our next game?

Our midfield is exceptionally poor and the weakest of any of the top 8 side. Apart from Marshall the entire midfield group looked 3rd rate yesterday. I simply cant understand why the coaches havent had a look at other players in there other than Phillipou and Owens. Surely when you lose Clark and Steele etc are getting smashed you make some changes. Ive been saying it all season for me Stocker is the obvious choice, he is a big bodied bullock with a quick burst he just looks the obvious inside player for me. Even Byrnes when he came on last night was on fire and showed that he is good in close would be worth a run.

This lack of flexibility is a modern day trend with most coaches (excluding McCrae), that is really poor coaching IMO. I guess its something to do with the way line coaches prepare players, but it is so frustrating to watch when it is so blatantly obvious. Our coaches continue identify that clearances at stoppages are our achillies heal - well stop rolling the same out of form players in there and do something about it!

Not sure Stocker has the fitness to play midfield but it does seem to have improved. Interestingly, at training the last 2 times I have seen him working 1 on 1 with the fitness guy on sprinting drills.

I wouldn’t be surprised if RTB says to Stocker at his end of season interview there is potentially a spot in the midfield available if you work on your speed & fitness in the off season. Over to you Stock!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No question the year has helped accelerated the development of some players due to our injury crisis, it's been a real positive to get games into players who clearly might have been stuck at Sandy, that we know for sure. The finals experience is going to be a bonus too provided we don't get smashed in week one.

Still a lot of list changes needed though if we are to develop into a team capable of sustained top 4 appearances.

I figure it was getting games into Nas, Windy , and Owens LAST year that really helped.
All three hit the ground running in 2023 much better for their experience.

 

[Cairnsman]

I figure it was getting games into Nas, Windy , and Owens LAST year that really helped.
All three hit the ground running in 2023 much better for their experience.

Totally and it shouldn't be forgotten that Ratts time as coach did leave a positive legacy in that regard as it was a focus of his to play kids and as you say Lyon has benefited from the players you mentioned having been blooded before he took over.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Not sure Stocker has the fitness to play midfield but it does seem to have improved. Interestingly, at training the last 2 times I have seen him working 1 on 1 with the fitness guy on sprinting drills.

I wouldn’t be surprised if RTB says to Stocker at his end of season interview there is potentially a spot in the midfield available if you work on your speed & fitness in the off season. Over to you Stock!

Yeah I reckon he has got a bit heavy as the season has progressed, but still think he could become a mid.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I just think Webster goes to ground after nearly every contest and Cameron takes advantage of opponents doing so. Cameron wasnt the reason we lost it was our completely defunct midfield and running players.

Webster is a very good defender but he's not perfect and Cameron is just about the best small forward in the game.

Unless we bring Paton in we literally have no one else capable of playing on him.

Given how well he went last time I would have been shocked he didn't line up on Cameron.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Webster has been excellent for a long time, but I do think he's looked a bit off the last month or so. Having more questionable moments, both with the ball and defensively. He's normally a player I feel very safe with, but since the Hawthorn game I've been much more aware of his iffy moments.

 

[Grav]

Apologies to giving Clark the spray I didnt know he was injured, sorry.

Does anyone know if Jones will be available for our next game?

Our midfield is exceptionally poor and the weakest of any of the top 8 side. Apart from Marshall the entire midfield group looked 3rd rate yesterday. I simply cant understand why the coaches havent had a look at other players in there other than Phillipou and Owens. Surely when you lose Clark and Steele etc are getting smashed you make some changes. Ive been saying it all season for me Stocker is the obvious choice, he is a big bodied bullock with a quick burst he just looks the obvious inside player for me. Even Byrnes when he came on last night was on fire and showed that he is good in close would be worth a run.

This lack of flexibility is a modern day trend with most coaches (excluding McCrae), that is really poor coaching IMO. I guess its something to do with the way line coaches prepare players, but it is so frustrating to watch when it is so blatantly obvious. Our coaches continue identify that clearances at stoppages are our achillies heal - well stop rolling the same out of form players in there and do something about it!

Earlier I would have loved to have seen Stocker have a run through the centre, but watching his last couple of games not sure on his tank.
Because of our plethora of forwards a player I wouldn’t mind seeing go through the middle is Caminiti, might be a bit late in the season for these left field positional moves though.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Something that seems to becoming more prevelant in games is ruckman at throw in basically tackling their opponents and forcing them out of the way. McInerny got away with it all game yesterday.

The AFL changed the rules to stop ruckman wrestling - surely this is just an extension of that? It defeats the purpose of taking front position in the contests, which is surely against the ethos of the game?

Thoughts?

 

[saintbill]

Not sure Stocker has the fitness to play midfield but it does seem to have improved. Interestingly, at training the last 2 times I have seen him working 1 on 1 with the fitness guy on sprinting drills.

I wouldn’t be surprised if RTB says to Stocker at his end of season interview there is potentially a spot in the midfield available if you work on your speed & fitness in the off season. Over to you Stock!

There were a couple of efforts there yesterday where Stocker was completely spent. Had no capacity to go again.

Definitely has some nice attributes for a mid role if he could build a bigger tank.

 

[gringo2011]

Always going to struggle to kick big scores with an average midfield I reckon. We were smashed in clearances, smashed in inside 50's.

In the end the scoreline was very flattering.

It was but our press really makes scoring against us tricky. The sides that cracked us open this year have taken snaps and long range shots and made their own luck. We weathered the storm early and then attacked. Pretty much classic Lyon.

We were in it and probably could have been even closer with more balanced umpiring and a few forward entries that we some how bungled near certain goals.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure Stocker has the fitness to play midfield but it does seem to have improved. Interestingly, at training the last 2 times I have seen him working 1 on 1 with the fitness guy on sprinting drills.

I wouldn’t be surprised if RTB says to Stocker at his end of season interview there is potentially a spot in the midfield available if you work on your speed & fitness in the off season. Over to you Stock!

He played further up the ground yesterday from watching on TV. Didn't seem to be inside on-ball though perhaps more outside mid staring off HBF or high HF. Owens and Phillipou had a lot more starts than usual which was good to see. Crouch and Steele seemed to be playing more support roles. Lyon seemed to be a lot more experimental this week. Perhaps keeping his powder dry for finals.

 

[gringo2011]

Totally and it shouldn't be forgotten that Ratts time as coach did leave a positive legacy in that regard as it was a focus of his to play kids and as you say Lyon has benefited from the players you mentioned having been blooded before he took over.

Injury gave them a few starts though. Nas was the one that got the most games but was dropped. Ratts greatest legacy was turning Sinclair into a genuine star off a pretty low base. If Richo had stayed he was probably close to delisting. Ratts pumped games into Paton, HC and Coff too.

 

[gringo2011]

Webster has been excellent for a long time, but I do think he's looked a bit off the last month or so. Having more questionable moments, both with the ball and defensively. He's normally a player I feel very safe with, but since the Hawthorn game I've been much more aware of his iffy moments.

One of his goals yesterday was just unstoppable. Cameron is in incredible form this year and finds ways to score. Not sure what else he could do. The one where Cameron seemed to get an unchecked goal out the back was the only one that was iffy defending and he may have been covering someone else's player.

 

[Cairnsman]

Injury gave them a few starts though. Nas was the one that got the most games but was dropped. Ratts greatest legacy was turning Sinclair into a genuine star off a pretty low base. If Richo had stayed he was probably close to delisting. Ratts pumped games into Paton, HC and Coff too.

Yeah Ratts time wasn't all bad

 

[karnaby]

........Owens and Phillipou had a lot more starts than usual which was good to see. Crouch and Steele seemed to be playing more support roles. Lyon seemed to be a lot more experimental this week. Perhaps keeping his powder dry for finals.

I felt that way too. And, I thought that Ross let the tinker do some tinkering.

Also, bris clearly have a very good midfield group but our system & effort (noting their inaccuracy) kept us in the game. While i think we've got a good chance next match, there's nothing to say that we couldn't pinch a win against one of the supposedly better teams, if we get that chance.

 

[gringo2011]

No question the year has helped accelerated the development of some players due to our injury crisis, it's been a real positive to get games into players who clearly might have been stuck at Sandy, that we know for sure. The finals experience is going to be a bonus too provided we don't get smashed in week one.

Still a lot of list changes needed though if we are to develop into a team capable of sustained top 4 appearances.

Changes or additions? We need to be brave and calculated with list management but not stupid or reckless. Sos and Gubby will make or break our chances in the next 2 years, get it wrong and it's a near ground up job again.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Gee i got a sore head today and I'm having trouble finding the usual bait after Sharman is gifted a game with the big boys....HELLO....anyone want to chat about the elephant in the room.

You can’t acknowledge he played a defensive game on Andrew’s and kept him quiet? Only 4 intercepts

 

[Speck]

Not sure why Lyon went defensive- no run and spread early, no quick movement to the outside runners..the opposite style of game to the week before. The midfield and half forwards got beaten as a unit and their defensive game was poor. Butler needs to get a bit more lively again as does Higgins- very disappointed in some of the one-on-one contests where we were beaten a bit too easily. A few horrible turnovers cost us goals again. Anyway we're playing finals, but there's a bit of work to do.

Not sure I'd say that was Lyons doing - Brisbane completely shut us down and you could see them putting a lot of work into Sinclair/Nas/Hill and not allowing them to run past.

We got better as the game went on which was a good sign.

 

[Cairnsman]

You can’t acknowledge he played a defensive game on Andrew’s and kept him quiet? Only 4 intercepts

I reckon you could mount a strong argument Andrews kept Sharman embarrassingly quite while McKenna provided the drive into attack of their half back line who had over 600mgs.

A defensive side to your game is a given but you have to have some other tricks too.

King will take his spot for the first final you'd guess.

 

[Cairnsman]

Changes or additions? We need to be brave and calculated with list management but not stupid or reckless. Sos and Gubby will make or break our chances in the next 2 years, get it wrong and it's a near ground up job again.

Yeah will be interesting to see if the club abide by the statement by Walsh while he was one of the four pillars that our strategy needed to be building the list predominantly via the national draft.