Autopsy Round 5, 2021: Hawthorn defeated by Melbourne

[Zack]

It seems to be a common theme with our inside midfielders. They don’t kick goals.

I think its a pretty common theme for our whole team, backs don't kick goals, midfield don't kick goals, forwards don't often kick goals.

I often feel that if we could kick more goals and possibly even more goals than our opponents we would win more games.

But I don't think its a high priority in our gameplan, our game style is more about trying to stop the opposition scoring goals, scoring ourselves always seems secondary. Which is probably why we often are in low scoring dour games in an effort 2 keep the game close.

 

[SA HAWK]

I can't remember a time in my 40 years watching the Hawks where we are so poor and have such scarce talent coming through. Our midfield is so shallow and we are bereft of any young talent in the forward half. Thankfully North will prevent us from winning the spoon.
When's the draft?

It is the mid to late 90’s all over again.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

I know it's a year away but really looking forward to seeing Denver, Sicily, CJ, Scrim, Imp, Hardwick, Day on the park together. Very very strong foundation. Next draft an inside outside mid who can spread and kick.

It's frustrating to watch right now but not worried. Some green shoots.

 

[satan1]

I can't remember a time in my 40 years watching the Hawks where we are so poor and have such scarce talent coming through. Our midfield is so shallow and we are bereft of any young talent in the forward half. Thankfully North will prevent us from winning the spoon.
When's the draft?

Gee, we had some ordinary teams running around between 91' and 08'

 

[LeBuddyRoughShow]

We need an injection of pace in the midfield, maybe CJ. Trouble is, we need three of him, one down back, one in the midfield, one up forward. Our mids are slow, average kicks and don't kick goals, not a good combination. Maybe throw Brockman in there for a burst as well

 

[threesixpio]

Ollie H was good was my take from the game.

Apart from that was watching mids getting chased down/forwards not structuring up well enough ...and me trying to work out whether the trigger should be pulled in spite of said forward structures being all over the place

CJ’s handball over his head was pretty cool. CJ full stop was cool

Farkn don’t kick it to Gawn ffs was another insight

 

[borgo]

It is the mid to late 90’s all over again.

Yep - at least we had Crawf dominating the competition. Just difficult to find any good in a season where Day and DGB have gone down with long-term injuries

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Stop being a Debbie Downer, Melbourne are top 6 if not a top 4 team and we stuck with them for 3 and half quarters

Who cares about Melbourne? I'm talking about Hawthorn.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

It is the mid to late 90’s all over again.

Hate to say it but this team does have a real Brendan Krummel / Tim Hargraeves feel about it!

 

[rei154]

Baby has gone out with the bathwater over this one.
We were only 10 points behind till the last quarter against an undefeated team that has spent DECADES trying to build into something special. Right now, they're clicking and moving along nicely- rather than it being due to us being terrible I rather think we should think of it as them being a top 4 team that is looking to go deep into finals in the next couple seasons.
I think the way our team is cycling means that in two to four years time we will be performing at a similar level to what we saw from the Dee's today.
To the people saying we have no young talent: have a pass over our list by age again, then remember that just because their age isn't a -teen doesn't mean they aren't a young talent.

Our biggest concern in my opinion is that we're missing one or two midfielders being developed right now as we've got a few in Shiels and Howe who are probably not going to make it or past it. Other than that I would argue that our list is in a fine position; DPP depth is developing nicely at both ends (need to find a partner for DGB though), our backmen are arguably the best young group of defenders going, our small forwards are showing more and more every week, and we have a few more on the way, and our young wings are performing admirably.

At the start of the season I said I wanted to see us be competitive in every game, and that I'd be okay with the losses so long as we're showing something and seeing development. We saw that today- those who let us down weren't our young up and comers, but rather a fluctuating gameplan and some poor onfield decision making by players who are getting over the hills of their career.

Cop so much flak from my mate about Hawks supporters being fair weather mobs and right now this board is proving them right lmao.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Another worrying thing for me is what the coaches do when the new rules or interpretations are introduced. It's as if they forget to train the players to adjust to them and they don't think to adapt aspect of the gameplan to them.

We seem to be the only team that still steps into field and off the mark when we go back behind it. Every game, time and time and time again we're getting called to play on because we step into field and it's not stopping. No other club does it.

The umpires are explicitly looking for KPD's putting their arms around KPF's. There's obviously a directive from AFL House to help the forwards kick bags this year. In round one there were a lot of these calls and most KPD's have adapted and are getting called less for this. Not our KPD's. Their first instinct is to grapple and they're getting pinged every single time. Especially Frost. He's been exposed big time with the new interpretation. Where's the defensive line coach working with him and Hartigan on this? Is he showing the players tape of what the umpires are looking for, defenders scragging and ignoring fwds doing it too. No use complaining. Adapt or die.

Kick ins. We're still going the short kick to the back pocket. Or to 60m out on a 45 degree angle. Other clubs are using all their allocated space and sending the ball past the mid line, but we're going the precision short route or the long ball to the ruckman's head. The same strategies that have been ineffective for the past few seasons.

EDIT: McCrae needs to pull Wingard to the side by the ear and tell him to stop flopping. He's been tagged as a diver by the umpiring fraternity, so he can put that s**t to bed.

 

[borgo]

Cop so much flak from my mate about Hawks supporters being fair weather mobs and right now this board is proving them right lmao.

I'm not fair weather, been a member for 25 consecutive years. I just call it as I see it.

 

[rei154]

I'm not fair weather, been a member for 25 consecutive years. I just call it as I see it.

Fair enough, I'm doing the same thing here.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I think its a pretty common theme for our whole team, backs don't kick goals, midfield don't kick goals, forwards don't often kick goals.

I often feel that if we could kick more goals and possibly even more goals than our opponents we would win more games.

But I don't think its a high priority in our gameplan, our game style is more about trying to stop the opposition scoring goals, scoring ourselves always seems secondary. Which is probably why we often are in low scoring dour games in an effort 2 keep the game close.

On the plus side I feel like our dour game style will translate rather nicely to playing on a cold, wet day down at Launceston so we are probably in with a decent shot of winning next week

Looking for silver linings

 

[SA HAWK]

Yep - at least we had Crawf dominating the competition. Just difficult to find any good in a season where Day and DGB have gone down with long-term injuries

Better signs than the last 2 years when Ckarko kept playing old cooked player and old injury prone recruits.

Things may get worse before they get better but it seems Clarko now knows where we are at finally.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Just what cattle do people think we have to pull in??

And before anyone rattles off unready kids.. which team has had success with playing teams full of unready kids getting belted left and right week in week out?

exactly. We have seen what happens with that path (Demons of the late 2000s until well pretty much the last 3 years, Carlton since mid 2000s)

 

[kenneje]

I know it's a year away but really looking forward to seeing Denver, Sicily, CJ, Scrim, Imp, Hardwick, Day on the park together. Very very strong foundation. Next draft an inside outside mid who can spread and kick.

It's frustrating to watch right now but not worried. Some green shoots.

Exactly right mate! Summed up my thoughts exactly.
We're building an extremely exciting backline, and already have the foundations of a solid engine room (O'Meara/Mitchell/Worpel).

We've just about locked in a top 3 pick this year which will get us an elite midfield talent (all of the projected top 3 are highly skilled).

Another two picks between pick 20 & 25, Sicily & Gunston back in, and all of a sudden we're feeling a whole lot better about the club than right now.

 

[hawks2021]

Thanks to Wingard & Breust sacrificing their game and giving worpel a hand in the middle. Worpel needs help in the middle.

Scrimshaw was great!

I thought Kosi & TO'B did as much as they could with the minimal amount of inside 50s.

Our backline & forwards are flying the flag, our mids is the weakest link.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Exactly right mate! Summed up my thoughts exactly.
We're building an extremely exciting backline, and already have the foundations of a solid engine room (O'Meara/Mitchell/Worpel).

We've just about locked in a top 3 pick this year which will get us an elite midfield talent (all of the projected top 3 are highly skilled).

Another two picks between pick 20 & 25, Sicily & Gunston back in, and all of a sudden we're feeling a whole lot better about the club than right now.

Scrim, CJ, Day, Sic and DGB have the potential to be one of the best backline groups we've assembled.

Now, if we can just sort out the rest of the ground.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I am not sure our supporters understand the chopping of the arm rule or the legging rule. Quite embarrassing the vitriol at umpiring. The umps were not great as a whole, however.

If by legging rule you mean the contact below the knees rule, it is a shithouse rule (Gary rohan should be ritually executed for being the cause of that rule)
And inconsistently umpired.
Multiple examples of missed frees for us which would be called for Demons.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Finn has done absolutely nothing to get selected yet , watched his game today didn’t fire a shot one of BH worst in a below par performance.

What game did you watch. Finn took out their best midfielder in the first half, and then went to the player that flogged us in the first half and took him out of the game.

 

[rei154]

Thanks to Wingard & Breust sacrificing their game and giving worpel a hand in the middle. Worpel needs help in the middle.

Scrimshaw was great!

I thought Kosi & TO'B did as much as they could with the minimal amount of inside 50s.

Our backline & forwards are flying the flag, our mids is the weakest link.

I'm curious- what do you think would help Worpel the most?

 

[LeBuddyRoughShow]

Scrim, CJ, Day, Sic and DGB have the potential to be one of the best backline groups we've assembled.

Now, if we can just sort out the rest of the ground.

I like the optimism but DGB hasn't played yet

 

[hawks2021]

I'm curious- what do you think would help Worpel the most?

2 quality midfielders who play both ends of the ground

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I like the optimism but DGB hasn't played yet

That’s what potential means.