Autopsy Round 9, 2022: Hawks chewed on by Tigers

[HawthornHawk]

 

[B&GBlood]

Sure yesterday towards the end the kid stuffed up a kick (but trying to do the right thing mind you) but then soon after followed up and put in a timely lunging push on a Tigers player kicking at goal. I love DGB’s character, fight and never give up attitude. I predict in the future this guy in a GF or an important final will do an important smother, lunge or act that will save us a game. It’s written all over him!

He will die trying

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

We’re apparently a bottom 4 side, but the upshot of beating us is that you’re in line to be a top 4 side. Buckley was saying as much about Richmond tonight on fox.

It’s a weird little paradox that one.

We are in line with Collingwood in terms of competiveness. They have 1 more win but they have also had an easier draw. Brisbane up there the toughest match. They have played both bottom teams plus Adelaide down here. Yet all I'm hearing is there going beautifully in there own rebuild and were not all of a sudden because we have lost 6 out of 7. It's funny to listen to. Buckley defending Collingwood a bit too which you would expect.

 

[PT Bar None]

RE the DGB commentary...

I 'member lots of Hawthorn supporters being very critical of one J Roughead when he was about 12 games deep into his career.

My view is we've got to get young Denver to 50 games. And it probably behooves us to do that as quickly as is feasible. Between now and then, I'm just looking for little things - glimpses - in the hope that we're good over the longer term.

 

[Roddy]

View attachment 1400447

This gives me tremendous heart. Someone said they had 20 multiple premiership players out there, I think we had 2 (one of whom was subbed out injured). Sammy has us on the right path. Not only is he building a good, attacking side, he's also instilling some serious fight into them. In two years, we win that game by 5 goals.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

This was right in front of me and was an amazing piece of play to leave his player, intercept and then just stream forward. He had two options short he was going for but given the time of game probably should have gone longer. Not sure why he is getting potted for going for it.

Had his time again he handballs it instead I rekon. You can get more air if your rocketing the ball at full speed. More experience he even baulks the player who had committed to the smother. Took the game on which is all you can ask for.

 

[HawthornHawk]

This gives me tremendous heart. Someone said they had 20 multiple premiership players out there, I think we had 2 (one of whom was subbed out injured). Sammy has us on the right path. Not only is he building a good, attacking side, he's also instilling some serious fight into them. In two years, we win that game by 5 goals.

Yeah I was a bit frustrated at times yesterday but I think this gives some perspective- especially running with 12 players with less than 50 games under their belts

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Melbourne won a flag with Brown and McDonald and look like they could go back to back.

They also had Fritsch and Kossie, who are quality med/small forwards.

We just need to find our own Gawn, Jackson, Petracca, Oliver and complimentary midfielders like Viney, Langdon and Brayshaw.

Plus an elite backline in May, Lever, Petty and Salem.

The only thing we have that can match up favourably is our backline IMO. The midfield had a lot of development to go.

 

[extractasam]

Bit of a sensationalist take. Denver has had some good games and some bad ones. Today he was matched directly 1v1 against one of the most experienced forwards in the competition with a midfield that lost centre clearances comprehensively. He hasn't even played 15 games yet lol.

The bloke at the other end of the ground Grimes took a good 4/5 years to establish himself as a regular for the tigers down back and another couple before the tigers were even in the window and people even started to rate him. Just gotta be patient

 

[Davo23]

Winter‘s come early in Melbourne, but it always does and stays forever. The start to the day was cold and wet but the weather improved, even though our club didn’t.

1. Gunston’s been criticised here by some who don’t know his worth. He started well yesterday, and when he went down, I thought we were in trouble. People forget a couple of brilliant goals he kicked late against North and Geelong, without which we would be 1 - 8, and fighting for the Wooden Spoon.

2. Young players should be given 50 games minimum before you judge them. And it’s even worse when you pre-judge them in a high-pressure game like that. Just leave them alone!

3. Having said that, I was pleasantly surprised by Kosi’s mobility when he was put in the middle. My impression was that he was a slow-moving forward who needed the ball delivered to him, otherwise he had no impact. I like this version, maybe he just needs the freedom to fight for his own ball.

4. And again, Jai has much improvement in him, but his decision making needs work. Sammy M surely will help, being probably the best decision-maker of all time. Jai can’t just grab the ball and kick it forward, he needs to think and find targets. I’m looking for that to improve as 2022 goes on.

5. I think I’m too Hawthorn-centric: I couldn’t recognise most of the Richmond players at the ground; a couple of their supporters nearby were yelling out names, and I had no idea who they were, and I wasn’t going to watch the replay to find out! For me, there are Hawthorn players, and a whole lot of nobodies who play for other teams.


Go Hawks!

 

[Blackhawk42]

I only just got to see the Kayo mini. I notice more of our goals were omitted from the replay than Richmonds which was disappointing.

I will say, 3 Tigers goals (Graham, Nank, Dusty) were complete 1 in 100 shots. They miss those and who knows what happens come the end of the game when Worpel kicks that absolute belter.

I was very confident of the Lewis/Kosi combo being a great one. In 3 years time the sky is the limit for them as a combination.

Take out the Essendon game and this season has gone exactly as I'd expected and hoped for. Kids getting games. Fighting it out against stronger opposition.
Hopefully we can snag a few wins soon to make the effort feel worth it for the younger boys.

 

[hawkman]

It’s not great. It’s why Brockman had a spot to make his own and I think we’ll ask about Bobby Hill again at trade time. We need a good small who pressures when the ball hits the deck.

8 tackles from 45 inside 50’s isn’t going to win us enough ball back.

View attachment 1400424

Says more about how we struggle to get it inside 50

 

[The hands of stone]

We are in line with Collingwood in terms of competiveness. They have 1 more win but they have also had an easier draw. Brisbane up there the toughest match. They have played both bottom teams plus Adelaide down here. Yet all I'm hearing is there going beautifully in there own rebuild and were not all of a sudden because we have lost 6 out of 7. It's funny to listen to. Buckley defending Collingwood a bit too which you would expect.

There was a stat a few weeks back that Collingwood arent as young and inexperienced as most seem to think.

They have good young players yes but also have a large chunk of 27 + yo playing

 

[m0zza]

I don’t get the doom and gloom. Thought Richmond largely played very well and how they wanted too. We were more than competitive and a small chance to pinch it late. A pretty good day.

Clearly we lost it in the middle and around the clearances - we all know thats our weak link. But there were periods we more than matched them through the middle - we just need to do that for longer and we are in the contest.

Geez they get a long time to get rid of the ball when tackled. Thought they were meant to be hotter on that this year - cost us a couple of times.

All up I feel like today was a step forward.

Newk gets tackled, takes a while and makes a legal handball = HTB
Seconds later TLynch gets tackled, makes no attempt then tosses it out = Ball up
Nankervis grabs the ball at a centre bounce, tucks it in, gets tackled and makes no attempt = Ball up
That last was a big play with less than two goals margin and minutes left

 

[Fat Tony]

I'd say we were a good deal worse during 2004 and 2005 when we came second and third bottom. Yes we were not bottom 5 the next year in 2006 , but only just - we were bottom 6. In those dark years we were also on the end of a LOT more and a lot larger thumpings than we've been given in the last 3 years.

It's interesting, on one hand we did suffer more thrashing but on the other hand I would argue our player and list development was far more advanced during this period. In 2005 we had 3 AA selections in Hodge, Croad and Everitt. Williams lead the Coleman halfway through the season and Roughead, Lewis and Franklin were developing nicely. Our core players during this time i.e. Hodge, Mitchell etc was also a lot younger. By the end of 2006 with 4 big wins in row, talk of finals for 2007 was no longer deemed unrealistic. Compared to now, I agree the performances are more competitive, certainly less 60 point+ thrashings, but if I had choice of which list I would want the 2005-06 takes this battle every day of week.

What I'm most concerned about is that by the time we fix the midfield which I expect to take a minimum 2-3 seasons to sort out, then the defence and forward line will need fixing especially as McEvoy, Gunston, Breust, Wingard and maybe even Sicily (30 in 2025) etc start to decline or outright retire.

 

[Pessimistic]

Newk gets tackled, takes a while and makes a legal handball = HTB
Seconds later TLynch gets tackled, makes no attempt then tosses it out = Ball up
Nankervis grabs the ball at a centre bounce, tucks it in, gets tackled and makes no attempt = Ball up
That last was a big play with less than two goals margin and minutes left

Maybe I’m just used to those going against us. It’s not right though.

Also on the 50m for dissension and the stand (also 50m) yet an opponent can hold a player on the ground and other things designed to hold up play…getting worse and worse as the weeks go on.

That’s why the 50m was brought in…seems like last century now

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Thought the scoreboard flattered us a bit. Not a heap of positives to take from the game. Thought Kosi tried his guts out and Scrimmers was maybe our best defender. Siss did some nice things, Impey probably played his best game for the year and Breust and Lewis getting 3 each is a solid day out.

Did anyone else think on Butlers non-goal that the video footage was enough to suggest he got his boot to it last and it should have been a goal?

 

[TassieGrown]

Was chatting to my father last night , 65 year Richmond supporter (dont hold that against him )and is always very fair and objective .

He thought Richmond had their strongest side in for around 12 months and look in form .

He did go through all of our players but feels we arent that far away from having a very good side heading up the ladder quickly.
He felt next season was a realistic aim for finals ( probably a bit ott !)

He did mention how good he thinks Day/Macdonald are and thinks DGB will be a gun player.
He did say it took Dylan Grimes about 50 games for it to click and said DBG looks more far more talented.
Likes the Lewis/Kosi combo , he thought it looked dangerous .

Thought CJ and Reeves will improve us even further .

I hope your dad is right about DGB, but I just don’t see it. Not tall, not overalls quick, not strong overhead, just doesn’t show me any attributes of potentially being a future star. It could be the role we have him playing but we just looks vanilla.

 

[kazzooka]

Elephant in the room. Worpel vs Tommy who goes who stays ?

Worpel goes for mine. Likely worth more in a trade due to age but Mitchell the far better player.

Mitchell stays till his contract is up to provide standards, leadership and experience.

I think we keep O'meara till retirement now, he seems to be able to influence forward now.

Just need some guys on each line to take the heat off the kids. Remember dixon, Crawford, smith, vangenberg and others in 2007.

 

[theiaofseed]

I hope your dad is right about DGB, but I just don’t see it. Not tall, not overalls quick, not strong overhead, just doesn’t show me any attributes of potentially being a future star. It could be the role we have him playing but we just looks vanilla.

What do you mean he's not tall?

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Newk gets tackled, takes a while and makes a legal handball = HTB
Seconds later TLynch gets tackled, makes no attempt then tosses it out = Ball up
Nankervis grabs the ball at a centre bounce, tucks it in, gets tackled and makes no attempt = Ball up
That last was a big play with less than two goals margin and minutes left

Not to mention the spilled mark paid in the last . Umpire assumed the mark would have been taken, paid it, and it ended up dropped but too late

 

[smeltitdeltit]

What do you mean he's not tall?

And he’s an elite intercept marker in junor days. No reason to see that not transferring to the afl when his body devlelops

 

[kazzooka]

Kosi, Bruest, Lewis and Nuke all positives.

Hopefully Worpels last 5 minutes doesn’t earn him another spot next week. This is about the 5th week in a row that he should be omitted.

Also Omitted needs to be playing vfl, not emergency or medical sub. If you play yourself out of the side you need to play yourself back in.

 

[Sizzlesilk]

Agree, we need to manage the List, but we have to try to bring in blokes who are going to provide seasoned experience. Yes, the younger blokes will be overwhelmed physically, but at this moment it is the younger blokes not the older blokes you mention, that are performing. Due to how we have managed our List in recent years we are forced to consider to trading experience in order to improve the overall quality of the List. It is a conundrum, but we have to improve the List. It is critical.

Agree. Moore, Harry, Newc etc have had tremendous starts and have been the shining lights.
We will break them as the grounds get heavy and the bad weather sets in if the running theory of “just play the kids” plays out.
We need Shiels and Howe and Phillips etc to carry the “managed” load of the younger players through June-Aug and let those kids sing the song every now and then.
We had 14 players who are very early in their careers out there yesterday to 21 of the 23 out there from Richmond’s premiership teams.

Our current direction and performance setting us up for future success is far more progressed than Port, Cats or Richmond.

 

[kazzooka]

I love Frosty. Love his attack, love his heart, even love his brain-fades.

But I am really fearing that DGB will become Frosty 2.0.

Like Highlander, there can be only 1.

To me DGB already has frost covered for disposal and decision making (ignore the late smothered kick). But he is not yet a capable stopper 1v1. Frost is just about the best 1v1 player in the competition but the problem with him winning a lot of contests is he gets the ball far too much.