Autopsy Round 9, 2023 : Hawks burnt by Demons

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Birdofprey]

Fair summary. I raised the Simpson issue very early but it got removed. However, given where we were at, we should have held Harvey to his contract and the AFL should have said no the move (but they can never stick to their rules). We never should have been put into a position where we were unable to recruit an assistant coach when the moving period was over.

This is an interesting point, which I must admit I had not thought about. Losing Harvey in October last year was pretty significant.

We have an inexperienced coaches box trying to develop an incredibly inexperienced list. I feel like they doing a pretty good job of playing newly drafted and young players - we have seen quite a few this year and already seeing some nice moments for many of them.

But the team synergy and structure /organisation has sometimes been so lacking it’s hard to watch.

But let’s be fair, sometimes the voice of experience runs out of impact too. Clarko had his structure up and running early on and north were 2 and zip and looked up and about. Since then they have been terrible, and Melbourne beat them three weeks ago by 90 points.

We gotta tough this season out and get as much as we can from it.

Go Hawks.

 

[TylerDurden]

The opportunity for Chad is now ....

He can disclose to the world that his body has failed him and announce his retirement, with his last game being Sir Doug Nicholls round. We can celebrate his culture as decedent of the Kaurna people and he can go out on a high.

That will also open up a spot on our list for upcoming drafts.

Thought the same. Looked to me he's lost his passion and hunger for the game. No point playing his career out at BH, which looks the most likely outcome at this stage.

 

[H00t]

Idk, I think everyone severely underrates Newcombe as a ball user. He's our best kicking inside mid by a fair margin. The 5th highest kicking efficiency of any mid averaging over 10 contested possessions a game. Went at 85% today. He doesn't just bang it on the boot.

He’s certainly a good user of the footy. One thing I’ve really noticed this year is he doesn’t generally kick it unless he’s clear. Preferring to use his strength and hands to try and get out of contested situations. Leads to a lot less turnovers.

Overall he’s used the ball really well. Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to put him down. I just think Day is going to really shine when our forward line gets sorted.

Day has the innate ability to weight kicks perfectly that when our forwards start moving and creating pockets of space for him to kick into he will do some crazy damage for us.

 

[TylerDurden]

This is an interesting point, which I must admit I had not thought about. Losing Harvey in October last year was pretty significant.

We have an inexperienced coaches box trying to develop an incredibly inexperienced list. I feel like they doing a pretty good job of playing newly drafted and young players - we have seen quite a few this year and already seeing some nice moments for many of them.

But the team synergy and structure /organisation has sometimes been so lacking it’s hard to watch.

But let’s be fair, sometimes the voice of experience runs out of impact too. Clarko had his structure up and running early on and north were 2 and zip and looked up and about. Since then they have been terrible, and Melbourne beat them three weeks ago by 90 points.

We gotta tough this season out and get as much as we can from it.

Go Hawks.

Reckon it's been a blessing. Hale has done wonders with the mid group.

 

[ahhhhhh]

The state Clarkson left our list in should not be understated. He brought in Mitchell, O’Meara and Wingard. Promised them a flag, failed, and left our list in a disastrous state.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

The state Clarkson left our list in should not be understated. He brought in Mitchell, O’Meara and Wingard. Promised them a flag, failed, and left our list in a disastrous state.

He left a crime scene, it's why it's hard to judge Mitchell to about 2026.

 

[extractasam]

He left a crime scene, it's why it's hard to judge Mitchell to about 2026.

Yep - there is only so much you can turn a list over in the space of 3 years. I remember Malthouse saying the same thing when he was at Carlton and he was dead right (as much of a flog he was).

 

[Accipiter]

I agree but does skill level rise with experience. Because the horrid turnovers have a lot to do with skill execution. The ones where there is little to no pressure absolutely kill momentum and by the third instance, sap every drop of confidence across the board. Paralysed to play

If we can get some marking targets and forwards that will lead at the ball carrier then there will be the confidence to kick long and the game will open up. Whilst contending with that the enemy will be taken by surprise when we change it up and go storming through the middle as we have been training to do this season. I can vision it going forward, development of a forward line is the priority after we snag Harley.

 

[Hawkboy62]

That was mainly grim watching. After our third quarter revival Melbourne clicked up a gear to run away with ease. As a team they are so much more skilled at hitting up targets by foot with low flat passes.

Our defense seems an absolute shambles most of the time. We may have to put up with Frosty at the moment but CJ's disposal has been horrible this year. Seamus a shining light and Weddle has been improving with each game.

Next week will be a real clash of the Titans.

 

[Maybloomer]

That turnover from Morrison on the 50 line. I’m sure a few posters in here were screaming at their TV.

I was at the game, the loudest scream was from Morrison as the ball sailed through the Demon's goal. You didn't need a Royal's Lip Reader to know what he yelled.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

CBA's out of 24:
20 - Meek
19 - Nash
17 - Day
15 - Newcombe
14 - Worpel
7 - Mackenzie
4 - Kosi

 

[Maybloomer]

Same old same old imo. Umpiring across the board sucks arse but that’s due to the AFL directing them to ‘interpret’ it in such a way. Incorrect disposal and holding the ball are the two which really need to be adjudicated like the game intends.

Sam Newman once said, there are 2 things that haven't changed in 100 years of footy, the standard of goal kicking and the standard of umpiring. Single umpires circa 1930 had excuses, 4 umpires shouldn't have. I actually believe the umpires are mostly good at what they do but it's the matrix of "interpretations" the AFL have thrown at them for "the betterment of the game" i.e. TV viewing, ad breaks, think of the children, etc that makes it nigh impossible to be consistent. All the blame should lay with the AFL

 

[Crankyhawk]

Concerning to think that more than a quarter of our list have regressed as footballers this year.

Morrison
Impey
Sicily
Frost
CJ
Moore
Scrimshaw
Bramble
Wingard
Breust
Kosi
Blanck
Jeka

Hmm, I think Impey this year is better than last year (last year was the main regression iirc)
frost is unchanged cf most of last year (he had a purple patch at the start of the year where there were less errors - likely statistical variation)
wingard generally has given underwhelming results for 2 or 3 years
kosi is unchanged
jeka injured (so unable to determine if better or worse)

agree with the others though, would add in DGB and hardwick. Though moore, sicily and hardwick are coming down from high levels and I think they will find their way back.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Sam Newman once said, there are 2 things that haven't changed in 100 years of footy, the standard of goal kicking and the standard of umpiring. Single umpires circa 1930 had excuses, 4 umpires shouldn't have. I actually believe the umpires are mostly good at what they do but it's the matrix of "interpretations" the AFL have thrown at them for "the betterment of the game" i.e. TV viewing, ad breaks, think of the children, etc that makes it nigh impossible to be consistent. All the blame should lay with the AFL

might as well go back to single umpires. Would save money, be more consistent/ can understand umpire being out of position...

 

[Accipiter]

might as well go back to single umpires. Would save money, be more consistent/ can understand umpire being out of position...

Football back in the single umpire days had a rule book that was 1/4 the size of the current one, rules were black and white with fewer interpretations. There were no cameras to pick up on the little things and the ball didn't ping from one end to the other at the speed it does now. And every so often a game of football would break out between the fights - Ah the good old days ........

 

[Lickmesocks]

I also think there is a strange lack of plan or lack of spirited opportunity when we kick out, the vision is great from behind the goals but all you see are witches hats. Zero movement!

Ahh someone that is watching the game!!! Well done .

What is our kick in plan?

Dimma or Sicily gets the ball. Stands at the top of the square for an eternity until the umps tells them to get on with it and then pumps it 55 metres to the opposition rucks.

With all these flankers we currently have why are they all not moving around and giving us multiple options 30 out, 40 out etc.

I have watched Basketball coaches teach young players that are not moving in games how to bring the ball in by lining them up in the middle of the court, setting body blocks/screens to create space and then they all break and buzz around until there is an option for the player bringing it in. I understand kicking the ball 30-40 metres is a lot different to someone passing a basketball in but I just see no options or understanding as to some sort of plan.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Our man Kane Cornes ( ) giving props to our resilience and effort on the AFL recap vid. Spoke of how you can see the plan and the future, we just don't have the class or skills of the better sides.
Said that the AFL has an issue with 3 clubs down the bottom, but Eagles and North are on their own and "are a lost cause".

 

[burner1]

I agree but does skill level rise with experience. Because the horrid turnovers have a lot to do with skill execution. The ones where there is little to no pressure absolutely kill momentum and by the third instance, sap every drop of confidence across the board. Paralysed to play

It’s a fair question. Depends on player but no guranteee skills will materially improve (ie look at frost, Morrison and Finn). Some of young guys who were skilled juniors (eg Mackenzie, seamus) have played a handful of games and should improve over next 20-30 games as they’d settle to the level but the guys with a few more seasons under belt it’s questionable. But we clearly need more talent into the 22 and despite the apparent focus on improving footskills we have a way to go.

In both the freo and dees game was pretty noticeable how much better they were at kicking hard, flat 30-40m passes that open up the play, while we kick a lot of high floaters.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It’s a fair question. Depends on player but no guranteee skills will materially improve (ie look at frost, Morrison and Finn). Some of young guys who were skilled juniors (eg Mackenzie, seamus) have played a handful of games and should improve over next 20-30 games as they’d settle to the level but the guys with a few more seasons under belt it’s questionable. But we clearly need more talent into the 22 and despite the apparent focus on improving footskills we have a way to go.

In both the freo and dees game was pretty noticeable how much better they were at kicking hard, flat 30-40m passes that open up the play, while we kick a lot of high floaters.

I noted morrison attempting to kick low passes which then would get chopped off

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Our disposal efficiency in the first half was 47%. That’s absolute trash.

By the end of the game it was equal to the Demons with 73%.

The pressure our players felt, and how we disposed under that pressure, real or otherwise is the big take away for me. This is why I think we cooked ourselves pre-game with who we were about to face.

 

[westhawk]

You cant talk bad about Morrison on this board, you will be belittled and crucified

In all seriousness, go to the game live and watch him run around the field. Has no idea where or what to do and will go anywhere to avoid any form of tackle/hit from any player

16 touches with 2 contested possession. 62% efficiency for someone who plays bruise free football...like cmon

100%, and a lot of supporters around me yesterday thought the same. Used to be a ok kick, but is horrible now.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The Dees really played hard in the first half, especially the first quarter. Their pressure was excellent.

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

I think we’ve got a lot more to worry about than the umpires. They tend to favour the better teams and players. HTB seems a lost cause. But west not losing through bad umpires (crows game the exception - that was the boundary ump!) Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

is elite but gets away with throws too often. In the end it was a flag contender versus a spoon contender and the result reflects just that.

We just don’t have the players at least not yet. We need KPPs ano pressure forwards who kick goals. Nick Watson or a KPF in the draft. Unless we lose next week, and I think we’ll win, Harley Reid is westbound.

 

[CobberRodgers]

I think our general fitness needs a lot of work as well. We are always outnumbered at contests, and there were some glaring parts yesterday afternoon where Melbourne players found themselves in a lot of space, especially running forward and from the stoppage.

I think our efficiency will improve itself naturally as a young group plays together and learns to play with each other, and do the team things for each other. Blocking, cohesion, drawing opponents etc will all naturally improve over the next 50 games.

We can’t have multiple poor ball users across the backline, and atm we do. We also can’t have Sis playing on blokes bigger than him every week, if we are to succeed moving forward we still need to find a monster KPD.

Forward pressure is horrible. Has been since Cyril left. I don’t care if they don’t kick a goal for a whole season, just find me someone that makes the opposition defenders crap themselves when the ball hits the deck.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Sam Newman once said, there are 2 things that haven't changed in 100 years of footy, the standard of goal kicking and the standard of umpiring. Single umpires circa 1930 had excuses, 4 umpires shouldn't have. I actually believe the umpires are mostly good at what they do but it's the matrix of "interpretations" the AFL have thrown at them for "the betterment of the game" i.e. TV viewing, ad breaks, think of the children, etc that makes it nigh impossible to be consistent. All the blame should lay with the AFL

The biggest factor in poor decision making is fatigue and experience, the afl need to get umpires to do as little running as possible.

It would mean the experienced umpires can stay in the game much longer, be less fatigued in game and actually just focus on umpiring. The other part of that is make them full time and get 3 umpires to sit in the middle of each quarter of the field shuffling around play.

It’s such an easy thing to solve but the afl in the grand wisdom seem persistent and manufacturing their style of umpiring instead of just the best outcome possible.