Preview Round 9, 2023 : Hawks v Demons, 4.35pm Sat 13th May

[HedgeFund]

Like CJ, when Jack plays well the team generally does as well.

….or the other way of looking at it, when the team is going well - CJ and Jack have good games.

Perhaps the coaches are thinking…..the team is currently under the pump and battling - but Jack isn’t show sufficient resilience.

As one of the older players, the side needs him to display more intensity and focus.

Would be a bit too harsh to say he “goes missing”, but when the chips are down…..is he one of the guys who is doing the heavy lifting?

 

[HedgeFund]

Game will be much closer than people realize, Hawks last few years have pushed Melbourne each time they’ve played.

Our line up and form line is strikingly different to the last few years though….

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Reeves not doing much of anything at the captains run.
Kosi likely coming in to give Meek a chop out.

 

[KermitJagger]

Reeves not doing much of anything at the captains run.
Kosi likely coming in to give Meek a chip out.

I felt a great disturbance in Supercoach, as though millions of keyboards typed Gawn and suddenly clicked "Captain".

 

[TazHawk15]

Reeves not doing much of anything at the captains run.
Kosi likely coming in to give Meek a chip out.

Surely Rama would be a better option, or do you think they look at Kosi as an expendable work horse and don’t want to risk Rama being injured?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Surely Rama would be a better option, or do you think they look at Kosi as an expendable work horse and don’t want to risk Rama being injured?

He just wouldn't be able to compete mate just get pushed out of the way.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I think like everyone I really rate his talent. I think he is one of the more capable players on the list in terms of pure football skills. But he hasn’t improved as a player in 3 years. Whether people like it or not the knock on him from Gold Coast related to work ethic. The same knock seems to exist at Hawthorn and failure to improve is often a symptom of failure to work hard. My impression is that he’s a cruiser with talent.

To me though I always thought Jack has been both super consistent and also very brave (the way he backs into packs to take marks is one of the bravest things a footy player can do).

I don't see those as traits if a cruiser with talent. Especially his consistency, that's the sign of a pro who fronts up every week to do his job.

 

[Scythe94]

Happy Friday, friends.

It's a bit late in the week, but one of our members has fired up an unofficial preview/banter thread for tomorrow's game – all welcome: Unofficial Preview - Round 9 vs Hawforn - He's NOT the Messiah! He's a very naughty boy!

 

[KermitJagger]

To me though I always thought Jack has been both super consistent and also very brave (the way he backs into packs to take marks is one of the bravest things a footy player can do).

I don't see those as traits if a cruiser with talent. Especially his consistency, that's the sign of a pro who fronts up every week to do his job.

Here's a fine example. Game still hot, 1st quarter, hasn't blown out yet, Scrimshaw on the boundary side with his opponent goal side in tons of space. Just jogging. No urgency. Frederick kicks a goal under zero pressure.



The first quarter, and he's already giving up without a chase. This is Scrims issue. Not the kicking and the intercepts that make him look good, the effort.

I can't wait for a week's time when you once again post "Gee I wonder what the issue with Scrimmerz and the club is, why oh why won't someone explain it to me?".

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Here's a fine example. Game still hot, 1st quarter, hasn't blown out yet, Scrimshaw on the boundary side with his opponent goal side in tons of space. Just jogging. No urgency. Frederick kicks a goal under zero pressure.

View attachment 1685040

The first quarter, and he's already giving up without a chase. This is Scrims issue. Not the kicking and the intercepts that make him look good, the effort.

I can't wait for a week's time when you once again post "Gee I wonder what the issue with Scrimmerz and the club is, why oh why won't someone explain it to me?".

You can take snippets from any game to make even the best player look bad if you look hard enough.

No player is perfect (Buddy kicked over a thousand goals whilst being an average mark, Hodge couldn’t kick on his right to save himself, Dangerfield is an average field kick, etc).

I look at the overall net benefit a player brings to the team and to me Jack has always been well in the positive ledger.

Do we really think we have the reserves of talent to leave him out?

We are dead last, we really don’t.

 

[KermitJagger]

You can take snippets from any game to make even the best player look bad if you look hard enough.

No player is perfect (Buddy kicked over a thousand goals whilst being an average mark, Hodge couldn’t kick on his right to save himself, Dangerfield is an average field kick, etc).

I look at the overall net benefit a player brings to the team and to me Jack has always been well in the positive ledger.

Do we really think we have the reserves of talent to leave him out?

We are dead last, we really don’t.

See, this is why it's so bothersome that you keep repeating yourself about Scrimshaw. You literally refuse to accept any comment that explains why he might be out of favour - even when given evidence. You then, to the point of ridiculousness, compare Scrimshaw's situation to Norm Smith, Coleman and Brownlow medallists.

You know why they're stars despite flaws? Because each of them, even with how much I dislike Dangerfield, became some of the hardest working players in the league. They leave it all out there. Scrimshaw doesn't do that, as evidenced by his efforts in the first quarter last weekend.

He is a defender, he is required to defend. He is a defender in a team which allowed one of the worst forward lines in the competition to score from 63% of their entries, therefore he was omitted. If we needed to keep playing Scrimshaw for his "talent" as you keep saying, we wouldn't have lost to Fremantle by that margin, with their medium forwards doing so much of the damage.

 

[westhawk]

Here's a fine example. Game still hot, 1st quarter, hasn't blown out yet, Scrimshaw on the boundary side with his opponent goal side in tons of space. Just jogging. No urgency. Frederick kicks a goal under zero pressure.

View attachment 1685040

The first quarter, and he's already giving up without a chase. This is Scrims issue. Not the kicking and the intercepts that make him look good, the effort.

I can't wait for a week's time when you once again post "Gee I wonder what the issue with Scrimmerz and the club is, why oh why won't someone explain it to me?".

Spot on, has the talent, is just lazy. Doesn’t like to chase or tackle. lacks mongrel, although he is not alone in the lacking mongrel in our current side.

 

[TazHawk15]

He just wouldn't be able to compete mate just get pushed out of the way.

I have seen a few Box Hill games lately where I have seen Kosi compete as well, I was not very impressed.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I have seen a few Box Hill games lately where I have seen Kosi compete as well, I was not very impressed.

Yeah sure it is why he was out of the side. But i think the coaches think he will be more competitve

 

[KermitJagger]

Yeah sure it is why he was out of the side. But i think the coaches think he will be more competitve

Or maybe it's just better for Kosi to be rattled about instead of Ramsden. That's the way I see it, you don't want a game like Jack Watts on the Queens Birthday that does career spanning psychological damage.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I don't think it's just effort/performance with Scrim's omission. Our backline has been underperforming as a whole and Sam is really trying to shuffle the pieces around to get the balance right. It was clear from pre-season, whether due to Scrim being out of form, a bit underdone and hurt, whatever it is, that we want to play with an extra runner in the backline. It's why Bramble was getting a game, and why Seamus holds his spot even with CJ coming back. Scrim is a good sub option too because he can be plugged in FWD or back. Obviously form plays into it a bit but I don't think we should be discrediting team balance as a real factor as to why Scrim has been seemingly thrown around a bit.

I like that Sam has identified the issues with balance and has worked really hard to experiment with ways to fix it. Playing with an undersized backline (no Blanck) to generate run, playing without a FF to try and put more pressure up fwd etc. Unfortunately they haven't worked as planned but this is the perfect season to be working out how to properly balance our back and fwd lines. I expect the changes to keep coming over the season

 

[Brishawk]

I have faith there is an elite player in scrim. But it’s time he realises that to get there he has to work harder. Good luck to him

 

[KermitJagger]

I have faith there is an elite player in scrim. But it’s time he realises that to get there he has to work harder. Good luck to him

Exactly. All the talent in the world, but for as long as his one weakness is the one thing truly in every players control he's going to have issues. Especially with Sam, couldn't imagine a coach who would be more about effort and continuous improvement than him.

If it all clicks one day, though - could be peak Birch + elite marking.

 

[TylerDurden]

Surely Rama would be a better option, or do you think they look at Kosi as an expendable work horse and don’t want to risk Rama being injured?

Meek and Kosi v Gawndy. Ouch.

 

[hawkinoz]

Josh has still some growth to come I reckon

 

[TheFourPillars]

I really like it that Seamus and Josh (Weddle) have retained their places in the side

 

[Lawsy]

You can take snippets from any game to make even the best player look bad if you look hard enough.

No player is perfect (Buddy kicked over a thousand goals whilst being an average mark, Hodge couldn’t kick on his right to save himself, Dangerfield is an average field kick, etc).

I look at the overall net benefit a player brings to the team and to me Jack has always been well in the positive ledger.

Do we really think we have the reserves of talent to leave him out?

We are dead last, we really don’t.

On the flip side, you can take snippets from any game to make players who are consistently being dropped look good if you want to.

I'm not in the coaching ranks at Hawthorn, but you surely must understand that your observation that Jack has always been well in the positive ledger isn't enough to keep him in the team, even with lack of talent you allude to.

The bleating is unbelievable.

Trust the coaches to know what is going on!

 

[Billyc]

To me though I always thought Jack has been both super consistent and also very brave (the way he backs into packs to take marks is one of the bravest things a footy player can do).

I don't see those as traits if a cruiser with talent. Especially his consistency, that's the sign of a pro who fronts up every week to do his job.

Different types of bravery in footy. There is that traditional blokey courage of putting body on the line. I agree that isn’t a concern with Scrimshaw

But there is courage in working yourself to the point of constant exhaustion with running (both ways) and pressure acts. I don’t believe Scrimshaw does that.

Using a player he is often mentioned together with in CJ, that is a major difference. I believe that is why CJ is getting a consistent game at the moment and Scrimshaw, for all his talent with the footy, isn’t.

CJ, Morrison and Frost are 3 guys who make mistakes but could never be accused of lacking work rate. Some of their errors are the product of that work rate and exhaustion

 

[Judd2Sewell]

CJ looked alright today on the track.

 

[DEECEE]

I really like it that Seamus and Josh (Weddle) have retained their places in the side

Best part of the week for me.

Sent from my SM-S901E using Tapatalk