Rumour File #6

[Salaryman]

Having followed Butcher in his draft year I'd say Hendo.

Butcher has always been a fantastic mark and lead. But his kicking is atrocious.

Will kick 6.2 one week and 1.7 the next. Very hit and miss at times.

Hendo is a consistent player when on song. His strengths are his work rate and clean skills. With Butcher he could rip a game apart or miss a lot of opportunities, Hendo will probably impact the result due to sheer perseverance.

Henderson will have a better career IMO

A well informed post.....won't win many fans on here but

 

[Blue and Silver]

Love Hendo but goal-kicking is hardly his strong point either
You'd be nuts to rate Hendo over Butch at the moment, and this is coming from a massive Hendo fan.

Butcher's got the hype at the moment. Playing in a side that has no one else to be happy about.

I aint nuts, I got a different opinion

 

[Stamos]

I understand what you are all saying, but frankly we wouldn't be parading him in front of CFCTV, interviewing him, letting him use our facilities, and offering to hold guernsey numbers for him if we didn't have the intention of selecting him with a first round pick if need be.

Michael Malouf: "Welcome to the Carlton football club's newest recruit Dylan, oh and by the way - if you're nominated by someone else in the first round, you won't play here next year".

That's a different argument though. There is a difference between us using our first round pick on Buckley, and being forced to use our first round pick on him if we don't think he is worth it.

 

[mickelboy182]

Butcher's got the hype at the moment. Playing in a side that has no one else to be happy about.

I aint nuts, I got a different opinion

Yeah sorry I phrased that poorly. I understand that he's currently the flavour of the month, but you ask an unbiased 3rd party and you'd get a response of Butch 9 times out of 10.

In 3 games he's managed to show of some impressive marking which Hendo has never shown, and also kicked bags of goals on two occasions. Hendo could well be better in the future but if Butch was a Carlton player and Hendo was a Port player I'd honestly wonder if you'd hold the same opinion.

Sorry for it coming across as an attack, my bad.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Aren't we discussing the Butcher to Carlton rumour. I say no, they say yes

TBH, I don't think it even qualifies as a rumour.

We're going on what Mark Robinson says.

What we know:

- Out of contract

- Same manager as Judd

- Likes Adelaide

- From Maffra

- Shows promise

So I'd be betting that Connors had fed that excuse for a journalist a juicy little rumour that the Blues are circling and Butcher wants to come home to up his value (for Butcher's financial gain, and in turn Connors' financial gain).

Robbo has duly reported it, too dumb to actually establish that Butcher appears very happy at PA, all his mates are signing on and he's likely to get a pay cheque there that the Blues could not afford (with the retirement of senior PA players). He probably can't think past Connors managing Judd (despite Connors having clients at most clubs). Robbo's a pretty simple guy.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Yeah sorry I phrased that poorly. I understand that he's currently the flavour of the month, but you ask an unbiased 3rd party and you'd get a response of Butch 9 times out of 10.

In 3 games he's managed to show of some impressive marking which Hendo has never shown, and also kicked bags of goals on two occasions. Hendo could well be better in the future but if Butch was a Carlton player and Hendo was a Port player I'd honestly wonder if you'd hold the same opinion.

Sorry for it coming across as an attack, my bad.

My criticism would still be valid no matter which team Butch played for. His consistency has always been his issue. At the beginning of his draft year he was widely considered a likely top 3 pick (Scully, Trengove, Martin year). But his inability to consistently string together performances caused him to slip down the rankings.

I like Hendo a lot. He has some very desirable qualities in a tall (moves well, persistent, does the team stuff, clean skills). Not to mention he is barely older than Butcher, has played more games, can play at both ends with reasonable results and wears the good old navy blue

EDIT: Oh and DW about the nuts thing, I know you weren't having a crack

 

[Silvagnis]

Hendo kicked 6 when?

Henderson hasn't played on Wood and Barlow?

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

One is a lead up CHF who will kick as many goals as he creates with his precise passes.

Henderson is a better kick.

The other looks to be better at playing deep and clunking marks.

I wouldn't mortgage our future to get Butcher.

We might be able to achieve the same results if Mitchell gets his body right.

 

[Beloved]

Henderson hasn't played on Wood and Barlow?

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

One is a lead up CHF who will kick as many goals as he creates with his precise passes.

Henderson is a better kick.

The other looks to be better at playing deep and clunking marks.

I wouldn't mortgage our future to get Butcher.

We might be able to achieve the same results if Mitchell gets his body right.

Mitchell will be great, you can bank on that.

If we can get Butcher for something reasonable then go right ahead. If not, as you said, it's not worth risking the future on getting him.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Agree with all this talk that we shouldn't break the bank to sign The Butcher!

Let's just go the cheap option and find a VFL KPF for cover...that is all i ask from our recrutiment dept. And no, that is not code for 'he who must not be named'.

Our window was in 2011 with KPP players on our list. Let's not flush away 2012 with the same issue.

 

[Hank_Hill]

Hmmmm, was that the goal he missed after the smack to the head he copped?, the same smack that had him spend a week in hospital after the game and have no memory of the kick or incident at all?

Then why did he take the kick??? it would have to be one of the most silly decisions ever made by a professional footballer. Why didn't do whats best for the team and let Eddie take the shot??

 

[Hank_Hill]

I was at the game and I saw it & I know how close he was to the goals.
He shouldn't have taken the kick. Eddie or Jeffy should have.

Our inaccuracy in the last qtr cost us NOT Warnock's miss.

Did you even read my post.

Not really

 

[Hank_Hill]

Wasn't doing that at all mate, merely pointing out your flawed and utterly ridiculous logic.

My logic is quite simple take out the trash and bring in quality. Warnock is trash so is Hampson and Port need a ruckman and we need Butcher. So lets offer up one of these ruckmen and our first round draft pick for a potential future champion that won't miss a goal in the crictical part of a game 15 mtrs out on a slight angle.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Having followed Butcher in his draft year I'd say Hendo.

Butcher has always been a fantastic mark and lead. But his kicking is atrocious.

Will kick 6.2 one week and 1.7 the next. Very hit and miss at times.

Hendo is a consistent player when on song. His strengths are his work rate and clean skills. With Butcher he could rip a game apart or miss a lot of opportunities, Hendo will probably impact the result due to sheer perseverance.

Henderson will have a better career IMO

Wouldn't judge Butcher's potential on his current goal kicking ability (although 11 in his first three games isn't a bad start). If anyone can remember, Warren Tredrea's early goal kicking attempts were atrocious. Things certainly turned around there.

 

[gbatman]

Butcher has shown more than any of the tall forwards on our list from what I have seen of him. A lot more. Henderson hasn't got good hands and doesn't have the strength (yet). Henderson will be just a handy tall forward who will kick you 60 odd goals a year which is good but doesn't make a champion. Henderson is a center half back. His hands aren't bad but nothing special. O'hailpin, Hampson and Warnock have poor hands. Kreuzer doesn't have the explosive power but should contribute in the role of a ruckman who pushes forward when our forward structure is fixed. Waite has good hands, nothing special about his body strength but he's getting on in years and is having plenty of injuries. I like the potential with Mitchell and I hope we play him next year.

Butcher will be an out and out champion and you can just about guarantee it. He's got really solid hands. Isn't over big yet but uses what size and strength he has really well which hardly any tall player in their first 4 or 5 seasons do, this stands out for me. It usually takes years to get tall guys to use their body how butcher does. He looks to hit opposition hard in marking contests. He's brave, he's tall and a good athlete as well as a good footballer. Some guys never learn how to use their bodies like this and win contests which is the main stand out. He doesn't just go the ball but uses the other player at the contest and jumps at them.

John Butcher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDa74UishA
[youtube]3CDa74UishA[/youtube]

Luke Mitchell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-DIjWOBD3s
[youtube]r-DIjWOBD3s[/youtube]

Watch how Butcher protects the drop zone of the ball and holds his man out and perfectly times when to push off. I love how he throws himself at the marking contest and likes to crash bodies. The way he throws himself at the ball when it is in the air and looks to time his run at the footy so he's hitting it with pace reminds me a hell of a lot of SOS. His marking style and movement have a lot of SOS about it and all Carlton supporters know how good he was as a forward.

I know highlights make any one look good but for me Butcher looks like a genuine full forward and Mitchell a center half forward. Would make a fantastic combination for the next 10+ years.

If Butcher is as good as I think he'll be then he'd be worth giving nearly anything for. But there is still just too much doubt but there always is when drafting kids. This would more than make up for losing Kennedy.

 

[HARKER]

My logic is quite simple take out the trash and bring in quality. Warnock is trash so is Hampson and Port need a ruckman and we need Butcher. So lets offer up one of these ruckmen and our first round draft pick for a potential future champion that won't miss a goal in the crictical part of a game 15 mtrs out on a slight angle.

The theory of trading trash for a champion sounds O.K. but that isn't quite logic that stands up now, is it?

Just 2 questions:
1. How exactly did you assess Butcher as a future champion?
2. How do you know that Butcher won't butcher from 15 mts. out? That's largely what he's known for.

Don't worry about question 2. It might be pushing it.

 

[mediumsizered]

Then why did he take the kick??? it would have to be one of the most silly decisions ever made by a professional footballer. Why didn't do whats best for the team and let Eddie take the shot??

Because he thought he was ok at the time. It was not until after the game that the club realized he had concussion. He was hospitalized the next day & spent a couple of days in hospital (btw, do u remember a certain FF missing a shot for goal from 15m out against Hawthorn 2 years ago;it could be argued that miss cost us a home EF).

 

[Kramer1]

Then why did he take the kick??? it would have to be one of the most silly decisions ever made by a professional footballer. Why didn't do whats best for the team and let Eddie take the shot??

Hank...you come across as somone who should be familiar with the repurcussions of a sharp blow to the head. When you get a crack on the noggin you don't always have full command of the faculties immediately thereafter.

 

[gbatman]

this is probably a better package
[YOUTUBE]EBF-GRl61c4[/YOUTUBE]
really looks like a sure thing and exactly what we need.


One example of how SOS liked to throw himself at the contest and his willingness to find body contact similar to what I see in Butcher. Butcher doesn't just get to the contest and reach out to grab the ball he does a lot more to make it hard for defenders. What a great mark!
[YOUTUBE]sB5KFbIhzco[/YOUTUBE]

 

[HARKER]

You really have to ask:

Has there ever been more hype drummed up for someone in three games and 14 kicks, kicking 11 goals, 1 behind?
Imagine if he did a Gilbert McAdam and kicked 26 odd goals.

Again I ask if that 11.1 was 6.6, would the world be as excited for a three game player or do we just expect that ratio through his career?

 

[HARKER]

this is probably a better package
[youtube]EBF-GRl61c4[/youtube]

That's a crap package. I hate Wolfmother.

 

[mickelboy182]

You really have to ask:

Has there ever been more hype drummed up for someone in three games and 14 kicks, kicking 11 goals, 1 behind?
Imagine if he did a Gilbert McAdam and kicked 26 odd goals.

Again I ask if that 11.1 was 6.6, would the world be as excited for a three game player or do we just expect that ratio through his career?

What impressed me most was his contested marking Harks, have you seen the games? Took some very impressive grabs.

 

[HARKER]

What impressed me most was his contested marking Harks, have you seen the games? Took some very impressive grabs.

Yeah he's good, but the adulation here for someone we won't get is quite astounding.
Give us the same opportunity I'd still sooner get a quality mid, than Butcher.

 

[gbatman]

A quality mid is high priority but that won't be easy either. Still desperate for another centerman. It all depends what comes up and what we can get done. No doubt we will be all over this but because we are good operators we wont hear much until trade week, you would think. I don't see us getting him but then again we did get Judd.

I always believe that you build a side around your talls and their quality has a lot to do with your success and looking at the top 4 sides this is without a doubt true. We have a surplus in flanker/winger types and a few average yet handy and relatively young ruckmen. It will no doubt involve our first pick.

Port will be doing everything to keep butcher as he is probably the most important player on their list. Not just the perfect fit for their team but a guy who will draw crowds/members and someone to build a team around. Both Port and the bidding clubs will be throwing everything at him.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Yeah he's good, but the adulation here for someone we won't get is quite astounding.
Give us the same opportunity I'd still sooner get a quality mid, than Butcher.

Harks...blasphemy

Yes we need mids (of course we do) but look at it this way. Our current midfield brigade is def in the top 5 in the league.

Our KPP stocks are in the bottom 5 give or take a slot.

So yes, we need another very good mid to complete the midfield, maybe even one more after that and we will have the number 1 midfield going around.

BUT, we are crying out for some KPP quality and depth first if we are going to go the trade route. If you are talking draft...then go for mids as we loaded up on talls last year. Trade is a diff story.

I would concede that if we simply cant find a KPP prospect then yes, if a mid is avaialbe for a trade then snag him.

Knowing my luck, we'll trade Hendo/Bower for a <180cm mid.

 

[Hank_Hill]

Hank...you come across as somone who should be familiar with the repurcussions of a sharp blow to the head. When you get a crack on the noggin you don't always have full command of the faculties immediately thereafter.

Well surely the players around him would have noticed he wasn't all there.