"Sack Goodwin!"

[Johnny Karate]

I’m a gullible idiot. So given that not all improvement is linear, that the fixture difficulty/expectations would ratchet up, the preseason was shit and we’ve had a few injuries at inopportune times - I probably could’ve accepted a slide this year, maybe even out of finals.

All those factors taken into account still do not explain how we have gone from one win away from a grand final in 18, to one loss away from the spoon in 19. The same problems persist - moths to a flame around the ball, no defensive setup, play on in the face of all logic and a general high effort for low return style of game. Was shits me is that we’re pretty poor when we win contested ball and clearances but we’re absolutely shit when we lose them. No team wants to lose those stats but there would be seldom few teams that have nothing to fall back on when that shit day at the office happens.

Competitive sport is tough, there is art to the graft, hanging in there when things go wrong, knocking the ball around for a bit to arrest some momentum, temporarily retreating and waiting for an opportunity to counter attack etc. Our team doesn’t know how to do this and it’s a ****ing indictment.

 

[Reality IS]

If you'd told any Melbourne supporter at the start of the season we'd have only won 4 games at round 16 and where only 1 win above Carlton/GC they'd have laughed at you.

Instead we are all making excuses for this performance rather than looking at the issue of who made Goodwin feel comfortable by giving him an extension before the season started? Did he loose the hunger thinking we'd troll into finals and knowing he is secure with the new deal?

Why give Goody a new deal? Was he leaving? It was a very poor decision that really didn't need to be made at that time.

 

[Snake_Baker]

He was a good appointment at the time as the Dees were building a new footy culture, but I dunno if he can take the side to the next step.

 

[booshboy]

so I've thought all year there's no real pressure on Goodwins immediate position until 2020, but if we lose to Carlton at the MCG on Sunday who are most likely to be without Cripps, Curnow and McKay- just how savage do we reckon the fallout will be?

Surely we cant still accept the no pre season bullshit this far into the year. If we dont finish the year off reasonably strongly does Goody going into 2020 a marked man ala Alan Richardson this year?

 

[Johnny Karate]

so I've thought all year there's no real pressure on Goodwins immediate position until 2020, but if we lose to Carlton at the MCG on Sunday who are most likely to be without Cripps, Curnow and McKay- just how savage do we reckon the fallout will be?

Surely we cant still accept the no pre season bulls**t this far into the year. If we dont finish the year off reasonably strongly does Goody going into 2020 a marked man ala Alan Richardson this year?

It’s chicken and the egg for me. Losing to Carlton just reaffirms how shit we currently are - bottom 4 is reality in 2019.
In isolation losing to sides like Carlton mean nothing more than a shit day. It’s the volume of shit days that will bring the pressure.
Many in the media don’t sniff blood around Goodwin yet, that’s why they’d rather go low hanging fruit like Alan Richardson.

 

[ponsdale]

Disclaimer: Tin foil hat theory.

MFC have moved Rawlings back to assistant coach in case things get so bad that they have to sack Goodwin. Rawlings has been caretaker coach before (Richmond in 2009) and would be best placed to step into the breach.

It's crackpot for sure, and it ignores the fact that McCartney has been a senior coach before, but he's on the outer at the moment.

 

[SugarHealey]

There is a difference between having leg speed and speed of ball movement. Richmond in 2017/18 had both, notice how with some personnel change this year in terms of experience they look slower or have been "found out" its more to do with not having their prime movers out there as they still have plenty of leg speed. The beauty and deceptiveness with Richmond in 2017/18 was they moved the ball quick but there was some organised chaos in what they did and they brought the forward half pressure to match their chaos game style.

We move the ball way way to fast, have little ability to control the ball and don't have any pressure in the forward half.

By your rationale Baker and Hunt would be first picked each week.

No. Not by my logic at all. Baker and Hunt are quick in straight lines, but not as much in spread so far, and closing down space.

The tigers brought in more small men., they have quicker minds generally, and better agility, and just quicker to put first steps in. IMO, they shut down space quicker, or get after opponents, quicker off the mark.
Lockhart has helped with the agility, and Hunts speed, and Bakers combo, does help us compared to our best 22 of last year.

666 has changed things up somewhat IMO. So pinpoint kicking isn't quite as crucial as it was last year, because I think there is a tad more space opened up, in 2019.
We seem to find more targets with our kicks, in the last few weeks, and as a nice surprise, Baker has helped in this area. As has Frost on occasions. Lockhart, etc.

Interestingly i think our mids Brayshaw and Oliver, are close to worst, being wasteful. Either they have gotten lazy, or need more help inside.?

I wonder what help Coniglio would be amongst those guys, if he would aid us in getting more clean ball away from the stoppages.?

 

[SugarHealey]

If you'd told any Melbourne supporter at the start of the season we'd have only won 4 games at round 16 and where only 1 win above Carlton/GC they'd have laughed at you.

Instead we are all making excuses for this performance rather than looking at the issue of who made Goodwin feel comfortable by giving him an extension before the season started? Did he loose the hunger thinking we'd troll into finals and knowing he is secure with the new deal?

Why give Goody a new deal? Was he leaving? It was a very poor decision that really didn't need to be made at that time.

I don't agree.
I think your basing your theory on a premise, 'that we are ready to play in regular 'Grand Finals', and for 'Flag'.

I base my premise that we are still in List-Build mode.

I say the club realise we are still list building (but improving obviously), and so they re-hired Goody, based on his development of our list and form shown last season. And his ability to stick to the clubs plans, Re building the list, and developing our young players.
As seen over the past few seasons with TMcdonald, Brayshaw 2018, Oliver, Viney, Spargo 2018, Hannan, Gawn, Weide late 2018, ANB, and the fact that we (Mfc) were becoming considered as a destination club for the talents wanting to move.

Don't blame Goody for a shemozel season, which had its roots in 2017 and 2018, Re playing players, carrying injuries.
The two most important being Tom Mc and Viney. They're poor form has hurt us the most early this season.

I really don't think we can judge Goody at all on this years collapse of form. When so many things have contributed all over the club. Not withstanding the players themselves.

Gawn was in poor form early season, as well.

I welcome Goody's efforts, with the view to continued list improvements, and our players continuing to progress in their developments.

 

[Toump Ass]

If you'd told any Melbourne supporter at the start of the season we'd have only won 4 games at round 16 and where only 1 win above Carlton/GC they'd have laughed at you.

Sure, assuming they'd only followed Melbourne for a year or so.

Dunno about anyone else but I'm kinda used to disappointment having supported the club for a few years now. You could even say I'm fond of it.

 

[Jamurp]

We need 4 more wins to better our 2015 season, Roos’ second in charge, so that’s a decent indication about just how bad we’ve been this year.

It’s been a disaster and Goodwin can’t afford to write this year off, we really need to finish off strongly, otherwise supporters will drop off and faith in the coaching department will too.

 

[Bazza97]

At the end of 2018, I felt Goodwin overall was the right coach to lead us in our pursuit for our next premiership. I didn't expect we'd win the flag this year but I believed we would at the very least be a top 8 side. We're a long way off that this year and it is laughable that we've gone from a side that made the prelim last year to a side that is now in the bottom 4 and is only one win ahead of the team in last position.

Right now, my doubts on Goodwin and our coaching staff have started to increase a bit more to a stage where I can't confidently say they are the right people to lead this club to a flag. Don't get me wrong, coaching is not the only issue that has affected our season but I believe there is improvement needed in this area. I do believe the coaching improvement can definitely come internally but I also believe we need at least a couple of new appointments to come into our coaching department going into next season and beyond.

Our performances in 2020 will tell us a lot, personally I'm expecting a response and a much better season. I believe we are capable of contending but in saying that, there's no guarantees so hopefully next year is a very different story and we're back on track.

 

[DemonZombie_001]

For me, this year is littered with missed opportunities (like the loss to Adelaide) because players could not execute skills (not the coaching). This weeks game vs the Lions showed some appalling lack of basic skills. And that is not the coaches fault. The weird defensive stuff players pulled at the start of the year (no way the coaches would have asked them to do half of that stuff).

There are areas that mistakes have been made by the coaching group though but I think they have been responsive (pushing too far up as one example).

For me, this is a season blown by the players. Looking forward to 2020 as I do feel this is a very good list.

 

[saj_21]

No. Not by my logic at all. Baker and Hunt are quick in straight lines, but not as much in spread so far, and closing down space.

The tigers brought in more small men., they have quicker minds generally, and better agility, and just quicker to put first steps in. IMO, they shut down space quicker, or get after opponents, quicker off the mark.
Lockhart has helped with the agility, and Hunts speed, and Bakers combo, does help us compared to our best 22 of last year.

666 has changed things up somewhat IMO. So pinpoint kicking isn't quite as crucial as it was last year, because I think there is a tad more space opened up, in 2019.
We seem to find more targets with our kicks, in the last few weeks, and as a nice surprise, Baker has helped in this area. As has Frost on occasions. Lockhart, etc.

Interestingly i think our mids Brayshaw and Oliver, are close to worst, being wasteful. Either they have gotten lazy, or need more help inside.?

I wonder what help Coniglio would be amongst those guys, if he would aid us in getting more clean ball away from the stoppages.?

So hunt and baker are quick in straight but don’t spread well?

Are you saying Richmonds mids are better a closing down space or just small men in general?

They key with Richmond in 2017, they probably caught the competition on the hop with their small forward line but they placed immense pressure all over the ground.....we laid 36 tackles on the weekend.

Our issue is our mids/coaches are solely focused on winning the contested footy anything outside a 5m radius seems to be inconsequential. It takes one good handball to break outside our contest area and sides are out on us. We rank in the bottom 6 for contested possessions post stoppage/clearence.

I can’t quite put my finger on why 666 has hurt us, I’d say as a team we closed down space around the midfield reasonably well but this year we’ve struggled to do that.

Quick footballers don’t necessarily make good footballers. It’s fair to simple to say we need to add leg speed.

 

[Tulip]

The club doesn't have the money to sack Goodwin, and it would be a massive overreaction to sack him this season. I'm not saying we are Richmond or Collingwood, but you can't deny that reactionary sackings aren't the absolutely only way to reinvigorate a club. If we are here again in 12 months, then I'm all for it.

We definitely need a list reinvention though, in the same way we need new assistants. The defence looks good, but we need to get some outside runners and a bunch of new forwards in to support the really good players in our side. By the same token, happy to see everyone but Goodwin, Stafford and Rawlings given das boot. Maybe Mathews too, he's got a good track record.

I'd consider the following to be non-negotiable to keep next season. Been super impressed with Jones down back the last two weeks, and think the club would be deluded to think retiring out greatest champ in a decade would be at all helpful in having us bounce back. Happy to trade any other member of the supporting cast if another club wants them enough to pay something decent. Few decent players in there that I'd rather keep and other clubs may want - Hibberd, Hannan, ANB, Frost, Baker.

DEF: May, Salem, Lever, Hore, Jetta, Jones
MID: Harmes, Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver, Fritsch
FWD: Petracca, Melksham, McDonald, Weideman, Hunt
RUCK: Gawn, Preuss

 

[Topkent]

For me, this year is littered with missed opportunities (like the loss to Adelaide) because players could not execute skills (not the coaching). This weeks game vs the Lions showed some appalling lack of basic skills. And that is not the coaches fault. The weird defensive stuff players pulled at the start of the year (no way the coaches would have asked them to do half of that stuff).

There are areas that mistakes have been made by the coaching group though but I think they have been responsive (pushing too far up as one example).

For me, this is a season blown by the players. Looking forward to 2020 as I do feel this is a very good list.

Our coaching staff and list management have completely refused to draft players who valued kicking growing up over winning the ball, players who could kick goals with there eyes closed over players who are tough

 

[Topkent]

So hunt and baker are quick in straight but don’t spread well?

Are you saying Richmonds mids are better a closing down space or just small men in general?

They key with Richmond in 2017, they probably caught the competition on the hop with their small forward line but they placed immense pressure all over the ground.....we laid 36 tackles on the weekend.

Our issue is our mids/coaches are solely focused on winning the contested footy anything outside a 5m radius seems to be inconsequential. It takes one good handball to break outside our contest area and sides are out on us. We rank in the bottom 6 for contested possessions post stoppage/clearence.

I can’t quite put my finger on why 666 has hurt us, I’d say as a team we closed down space around the midfield reasonably well but this year we’ve struggled to do that.

Quick footballers don’t necessarily make good footballers. It’s fair to simple to say we need to add leg speed.

I don't think 666 has hurt us, what's hurt us is teams have focused on defending the quick ball movement through the corridor, teams went from last year focusing on quick ball movement to beat the press to now moving it more conservatively to defend the turnover which is/was the greatest means of conceding.

Teams want you to handball it now and we give it to them

 

[stEdy]

I feel like losing the runners has hurt us the most, we're a young team and our leaders aren't exactly the most astute footy brains either. We generally look quite disorganised and I remember hearing Clayton and Gus interviewed about it and they both emphatically said they hate that they took the runners away. I feel like internally it's something we're quite dirty on and haven't been able to adapt without a strong core of seasoned veterans/leaders

 

[SugarHealey]

So hunt and baker are quick in straight but don’t spread well?

Are you saying Richmonds mids are better a closing down space or just small men in general?

Both, Saj. small men are more agile usually, and more nimble, and quicker away from the mark generally, so with the number of smalls the Tigers carried in they're 22, in that Flag year. They then, had better quick's, than ours are now.

Better, more effective to the game plan, and just wining games with relative energy expenditure.
We, last year, had to expend massive energy for every win we added.
It tells at the end of the season.

 

[SugarHealey]

They key with Richmond in 2017, they probably caught the competition on the hop with their small forward line but they placed immense pressure all over the ground

I've been calling for quick running players and small players to be recruited from a couple of seasons prior to the Tiges Flag year.
I wanted us to get some big midfielders early in our rebuild, and I still am interested in Maynard as well. But I do not believe in all big beasts, Re midfield.
I believe in a combo of where we are now, with strong inside mids, but with smalls & pace around our flanks. And say one small who can go inside the centre, to carve thru traffic.

 

[Toump Ass]

For me, this year is littered with missed opportunities (like the loss to Adelaide) because players could not execute skills... and that is not the coaches fault.

Of course it's the coaches fault. The players can't execute basic skills because they are under immense pressure from the out-dated, high intensity game plan. We work incredibly hard to score goals and give them up for nothing, so it's no surprise that even when the opposition are a man down at half time, we're the ones struggling to run out games.

Spoiling each-other in marking contests, playing on at all costs, sacrificing everything to win the contested ball even if it leaves no one to receive it... they're coaching issues.

 

[Hawkboy62]

Clarko’s contract with Hawthorn finishes at the end of 2021. He could be our coach in 2022. Yep, two and bit more years of Goody, but if we can get Clarko then it maybe worth the wait.

Contracted for 2022.

 

[booshboy]

Julian De Stoop reckons we're keen to talk to Brendan Bolton about a role.

 

[Topkent]

Julian De Stoop reckons we're keen to talk to Brendan Bolton about a role.

I don't think anyone knows if he can actually coach. His first 2 years at Carlton looked good and he had then defending well. It's not his fault he has the worst list manager ever at the helm

 

[booshboy]

I don't think anyone knows if he can actually coach. His first 2 years at Carlton looked good and he had then defending well. It's not his fault he has the worst list manager ever at the helm

Alistair Clarkson trusted him with the keys to the Hawks during a premiership year. Good enough for me.

 

[Topkent]

Alistair Clarkson trusted him with the keys to the Hawks during a premiership year. Good enough for me.

Malthouse also recommended Neeld in a grand final year