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Demon bhoy

Club Legend
Oct 7, 2017
1,665
1,495
AFL Club
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Here's my issue, people b*tch about May and Lever and sure maybe it's justified. But they are defenders, they aren't gonna look amazing in a poor team

If we thought we could actually challenge after 18 then I don't give a fu** about hindsight. I'm happy the club did something instead of nothing. I could give a fu** if I'm alone, the MFC has been shy of pulling the trigger on any sort of trade when we've been good. Everyone in the world said Frost and Omac weren't good enough and rightly or wrongly the club thought fixing that could take us to the next level. Good on them for ******* trying. Every campaigner in the world can recommend great draft choices in hindsight,

If we had played last year with Omac and Frost every campaigner on here would be complaining about our key backs.

Hindsight hero's
Hindsight isn’t needed when it’s blatantly obvious to anybody with a passing interest that giving up a king’s ransom for an average footballer and then paying him like a star is doomed to failure, it’s why many of us have said so from the start. Doing something is fine but making such a campaigner of the attempt sets you back years. Mahoney and good aren’t paid to try they are paid to get it right and in that they failed spectacularly.
 
Dogs getting Josh Bruce for a seconds rounder was criminal. I remember 00Stinger being heavily with me on we should try to recruit him.

Probably exactly the kind of player we needed and wasn't even that expensive.
 

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Demon bhoy

Club Legend
Oct 7, 2017
1,665
1,495
AFL Club
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Scottish football was more fun when clubs such as Aberdeen and Dundee Utd were challenging for European Honours . (yes decades ago now) .
Hard to comprehend now that Aberdeen fc could beat Real Madrid in a European final. The Dons were arguably a top 5 team in the world at that time, the bloke managing them when ok apparently.
 
Jun 14, 2015
17,458
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In a house with a sausage dog Trevor
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We just don't know how to use the players we are paying for imo. It's fine and dandy to go and recruit them but then have no clue about how to actually get them playing their best footy. It's like with Lever " hE mArK iNtEcPt GuD" .. " Y u No MaRk InTErCPt GuD 4 uS tHo?"

Mule with a spinning wheel.
Yeah it's pretty funny tho. Don't know how to play them, don't know how to develop them. We just Melbourne them every time.
 
Dogs getting Josh Bruce for a seconds rounder was criminal. I remember 00Stinger being heavily with me on we should try to recruit him.

Probably exactly the kind of player we needed and wasn't even that expensive.
100%

I am mystified why we didn't make a play for him especially for a second rounder. Consistently a 35-50 goal a year player who can take a contested mark and can pinch hit in the ruck
 

jhong

Old man yelling at clouds
Apr 18, 2011
7,799
6,656
Wonthaggi
AFL Club
Melbourne
Can't confirm if real ....
 

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Apr 13, 2015
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The May/Lever/Hogan debate does get tiresome. There are good takes all round but it is boring. In saying that here’s my demented ramblings:

The club pony’d up big for Lever and May for quite a few ‘good’ reasons. In 17 & 18 Richmond and West Coast both won flags with excellent tall defenders in Rance, Grimes, McGovern & Barrass respectively. While their stocks have certainly fallen since, it wouldn’t have been outrageous to consider Lever & May in that bracket circa 17 & 18. We ended up coughing up a lot in draft picks/salary because that was what it took to get them over the line. Also getting deals done efficiently can create goodwill with other clubs as well as player managers which is worthy of consideration. FWIW, Lever and May are not our biggest problem IMO because our system is so bad we could have Silvagni & Scarlett down back and Plugger up forward and they would likely look puss given the way we play. Re. Hogan - once we pulled the trigger we were never going to use the draft pick on anything other than an established KPP given we had just come off a prelim. Yes, Ben King looks awesome and a star but most of us would’ve been united in antipathy giving away Hogan for an unproven kid when it seemed we were within spitting distance of contending.

On the other hand, people get paid very well to make these decisions using foresight. Were key defenders really the issue when our team defence sucked so much? Again, Lever and May/Scarlett and Silvagni wouldn’t have made a lick of difference on PF day 2018 given the way Gawn and our midfield were completely taken to pieces. While Richmond and West Coast do have very valuable key defenders, they recruited and developed them all. Maybe Froscar would never reach those heights, however, it’s not like we were the equivalent of Hawthorn poaching Frawley and Lake as final pieces of the puzzle because the likes of Thomas Murphy and Schoenmakers were epic weak links in a tight zone defence/well structured game plan.
Was it really wise to anoint Sam Weideman the answer after a handful of credible performances? The recruitment of Preuss was also quite strange it seems as though the coaching staff thought they would develop him into a Mason Cox (the prelim version) style forward-ruck.

At the end of the day though, these decisions only look ******* woeful because the club has lost the plot from top to bottom. A sound game plan, selecting a structured team, calm players and erudite coaches would see us toward the top half of the ladder. Us consistently playing a 5th gear tempo with ball, allowing our mids to get away with stat padding and pathetic defensive efforts and having a forward structure of 1 tall 4 mediums and one crumber/pressure forward as well as a defensive structure of 1 tall defender, 1 tall rebounder, whatever the * Joel Smith is, Michael Hibberd, Christian Salem, Trent Rivers and James Harmes is what is making us garbage more so than any recruiting decisions.
 
Last edited:

The Dr

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 20, 2007
7,104
8,072
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
The main issue I have with May is that he's look nothing like the player he was Gold Coast.

Probably just miles down on confidence ATM tho.

My big issue was/is, he was a free agent the next year and we should’ve either got him for less (trade wise) or waited a year and got him for free.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
6,720
14,221
Hobart
AFL Club
Melbourne
Here's my issue, people b*tch about May and Lever and sure maybe it's justified. But they are defenders, they aren't gonna look amazing in a poor team

If we thought we could actually challenge after 18 then I don't give a fu** about hindsight. I'm happy the club did something instead of nothing. I could give a fu** if I'm alone, the MFC has been shy of pulling the trigger on any sort of trade when we've been good. Everyone in the world said Frost and Omac weren't good enough and rightly or wrongly the club thought fixing that could take us to the next level. Good on them for ******* trying. Every campaigner in the world can recommend great draft choices in hindsight,

If we had played last year with Omac and Frost every campaigner on here would be complaining about our key backs.

Hindsight hero's
It's only hindsight heroes if you didn't feel that way at the time, but you change your tune. I never wanted us to trade out Frosty - and it looks like his relationship with May had something to do with him leaving. I also wanted us to replace Hogan with another forward. I have no idea why we were so keen on Langdon/Tomlinson when we were missing a forward. Granted they might turn out to be ok eventually, but I still stand by what I said about keeping Frosty and getting another key forward. Not that we'd be any good anyway, but I'd have two fewer things to bitch and moan about with this club. But the biggest bitch-moan has to remain with the contract extension of our coach, who had no suitors anywhere on planet Earth to make us believe he was in the slightest bit of demand. As long as we aren't being coached properly, it probably doesn't matter much who plays for us.
 
The May/Lever/Hogan debate does get tiresome. There are good takes all round but it is boring. In saying that here’s my demented ramblings:

The club pony’d up big for Lever and May for quite a few ‘good’ reasons. In 17 & 18 Richmond and West Coast both won flags with excellent tall defenders in Rance, Grimes, McGovern & Barrass respectively. While their stocks have certainly fallen since, it wouldn’t have been outrageous to consider Lever & May in that bracket circa 17 & 18. We ended up coughing up a lot in draft picks/salary because that was what it took to get them over the line. Also getting deals done efficiently can create goodwill with other clubs as well as player managers which is worthy of consideration. FWIW, Lever and May are not our biggest problem IMO because our system is so bad we could have Silvagni & Scarlett down back and Plugger up forward and they would likely look puss given the way we play. Re. Hogan - once we pulled the trigger we were never going to use the draft pick on anything other than an established KPP given we had just come off a prelim. Yes, Ben King looks awesome and a star but most of us would’ve been united in antipathy giving away Hogan for an unproven kid when it seemed we were within spitting distance of contending.

On the other hand, people get paid very well to make these decisions using foresight. Were key defenders really the issue when our team defence sucked so much? Again, Lever and May/Scarlett and Silvagni wouldn’t have made a lick of difference on PF day 2018 given the way Gawn and our midfield were completely taken to pieces. While Richmond and West Coast do have very valuable key defenders, they recruited and developed them all. Maybe Froscar would never reach those heights, however, it’s not like we were the equivalent of Hawthorn poaching Frawley and Lake as final pieces of the puzzle because the likes of Thomas Murphy and Schoenmakers were epic weak links in a tight zone defence/well structured game plan.
Was it really wise to anoint Sam Weideman the answer after a handful of credible performances? The recruitment of Preuss was also quite strange it seems as though the coaching staff thought they would develop him into a Mason Cox (the prelim version) style forward-ruck.

At the end of the day though, these decisions only look ******* woeful because the club has lost the plot from top to bottom. A sound game plan, selecting a structured team, calm players and erudite coaches would see us toward the top half of the ladder. Us consistently playing a 5th gear tempo with ball, allowing our mids to get away with stat padding and pathetic defensive efforts and having a forward structure of 1 tall 4 mediums and one crumber/pressure forward as well as a defensive structure of 1 tall defender, 1 tall rebounder, whatever the fu** Joel Smith is, Michael Hibberd, Christian Salem, Trent Rivers and James Harmes is what is making us garbage more so than any recruiting decisions.

I agree its ******* boring arguing about two under performing over paid players.
 
Jun 14, 2015
17,458
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In a house with a sausage dog Trevor
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Re. Hogan - once we pulled the trigger we were never going to use the draft pick on anything other than an established KPP given we had just come off a prelim.
... Why not? Our midfield in the prelim included Dom Tyson and we weren't going to play Pruess in his spot. Would be devastated if the club didn't speak to Shiel or Neale.
 

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booshboy

Premiership Player
Aug 27, 2008
3,432
5,761
Melbourne
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who would be the main candidates to replace him?
we'd have to speak to Ross Lyon, I'm more keen on him by the day, must have a huge feeling of unfinished business.

Voss, would be worth speaking to- although unlike Ratten hasn't spent time under an elite coach after being sacked.

Sam Mitchell? I think we need someone experienced.

Would love to get Yze in as an assistant, spent close to 10 years under Clarko.

Any others?
 
I agree its ******* boring arguing about two under performing over paid players.
I wish we could talk more positively in general

Maybe I'll stick to the NFL & FA boards where my teams don't suck (yet)
 

GWT6

Club Legend
Jun 7, 2011
1,616
4,349
Western Sydney
AFL Club
Melbourne
who would be the main candidates to replace him?
we'd have to speak to Ross Lyon, I'm more keen on him by the day, must have a huge feeling of unfinished business.

Voss, would be worth speaking to- although unlike Ratten hasn't spent time under an elite coach after being sacked.

Sam Mitchell? I think we need someone experienced.

Would love to get Yze in as an assistant, spent close to 10 years under Clarko.

Any others?
Hopefully not someone with a track record of public drunkenness, gambling on games, assault, use of performance-enhancing drugs, helped oversee systematic doping.

Point being - nobody that appointed Goodwin should be involved in the decision. How anyone thinks it is a good idea to hire someone with a long record of appalling decision making into the most important leadership position in the club, is still as mind-boggling now as it was when he was appointed.
 

Crusty Demon

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 20, 2009
7,863
8,310
Brighton
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
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Hopefully not someone with a track record of public drunkenness, gambling on games, assault, use of performance-enhancing drugs, helped oversee systematic doping.

Point being - nobody that appointed Goodwin should be involved in the decision. How anyone thinks it is a good idea to hire someone with a long record of appalling decision making into the most important leadership position in the club, is still as mind-boggling now as it was when he was appointed.
I believe everyone deserves a 22nd chance..
 

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