Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Question from one who does not know the detail, but us our ruck coaching as good as when Monky was doing it.

Reeves and meek both seem to have physical gifts they don’t seem to be maximising

Even under Monkey we had some weird tactics. We just haven't had great rucks tbh.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Melbourne is a very strong team, and we should have beaten Essendon.
The scoring shots stat is a good perspective to bring into the discussion.


We will do OK this season once the mids sort themselves out.

We're missing Day more than I thought we would. Hopefully Hustwaite adds some creativity to the midfield

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[SSSSSS]

There is always a bit of doom and gloom after a 0-3 start but I can't help but feel we have improved compared to this time last year. I had a look at the numbers to see if they would agree.

Comparing our first games between Essendon (R1), Geelong (R4) and Melbourne (R9) last year

Improvements have been bolded.

2024;
Disposal Difference - We are +10 (Improvement by 136)
Tackles - We are -65
Tackles I50 - We are +12 (Improvement by 11)
Scoring Shots - We are -5 (Improvement by 35)
Clearances - We are -7 (Improvement by 2)
Inside 50s - We are +2 (Improvement by 68)
Marks I50 - We are -3 (Improvement by 31)
Metres Gained - We are -563 (Improvement by 2241)

Goals Scored - 26 (Improvement by 2)
Behinds Scored - 35
Total Points - 191 (Improvement by 20)
Accuracy - 42.6%

Goals Conceded - 48 (Improvement by 7)
Behinds conceded - 18
Total Points - 306 (Improvement by 60).
Opposition Accuracy - 72.7%

Percentage - 62.4%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 80% win rate.

2023;

Disposal Difference - We were -126
Tackles - We were +18
Tackles I50 - We were +1
Scoring Shots - We were -40 !!
Clearances - We were -9
Inside 50s - We were -66!!
Marks I50 - We were -34!!
Metres Gained - We were -2804

Goals Scored - 24
Behinds Scored - 27
Total points - 171
Accuracy - 47.1%

Goals conceded - 55
Behinds Conceded - 36
Total points - 366
Accuracy - 60.4%

Percentage - 46.7%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 62.5%

All the while we've come against what looks like stronger opposition based on form guides from the first few rounds.

Hopefully we can all take a deep breath. It's been frustrating to lose but we are still in development mode. Biggest thing we need to start working on IMO is our tackling. The one area where we are getting comprehensively outhunted by the opposition. Hopefully get the mouth guards out at training.

 

[rei154]

There is always a bit of doom and gloom after a 0-3 start but I can't help but feel we have improved compared to this time last year. I had a look at the numbers to see if they would agree.

Comparing our first games between Essendon (R1), Geelong (R4) and Melbourne (R9) last year

Improvements have been bolded.

2024;
Disposal Difference - We are +10 (Improvement by 136)
Tackles - We are -65
Tackles I50 - We are +12 (Improvement by 11)
Scoring Shots - We are -5 (Improvement by 35)
Clearances - We are -7 (Improvement by 2)
Inside 50s - We are +2 (Improvement by 68)
Marks I50 - We are -3 (Improvement by 31)
Metres Gained - We are -563 (Improvement by 2241)

Goals Scored - 26 (Improvement by 2)
Behinds Scored - 35
Total Points - 191 (Improvement by 20)
Accuracy - 42.6%

Goals Conceded - 48 (Improvement by 7)
Behinds conceded - 18
Total Points - 306 (Improvement by 60).
Opposition Accuracy - 72.7%

Percentage - 62.4%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 80% win rate.

2023;

Disposal Difference - We were -126
Tackles - We were +18
Tackles I50 - We were +1
Scoring Shots - We were -40 !!
Clearances - We were -9
Inside 50s - We were -66!!
Marks I50 - We were -34!!
Metres Gained - We were -2804

Goals Scored - 24
Behinds Scored - 27
Total points - 171
Accuracy - 47.1%

Goals conceded - 55
Behinds Conceded - 36
Total points - 366
Accuracy - 60.4%

Percentage - 46.7%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 62.5%

All the while we've come against what looks like stronger opposition based on form guides from the first few rounds.

Hopefully we can all take a deep breath. It's been frustrating to lose but we are still in development mode. Biggest thing we need to start working on IMO is our tackling. The one area where we are getting comprehensively outhunted by the opposition. Hopefully get the mouth guards out at training.

Jeez that metres gained stat was DAMNING last year.

Great post, SSSSSS

 

[Billyc]

There is always a bit of doom and gloom after a 0-3 start but I can't help but feel we have improved compared to this time last year. I had a look at the numbers to see if they would agree.

Comparing our first games between Essendon (R1), Geelong (R4) and Melbourne (R9) last year

Improvements have been bolded.

2024;
Disposal Difference - We are +10 (Improvement by 136)
Tackles - We are -65
Tackles I50 - We are +12 (Improvement by 11)
Scoring Shots - We are -5 (Improvement by 35)
Clearances - We are -7 (Improvement by 2)
Inside 50s - We are +2 (Improvement by 68)
Marks I50 - We are -3 (Improvement by 31)
Metres Gained - We are -563 (Improvement by 2241)

Goals Scored - 26 (Improvement by 2)
Behinds Scored - 35
Total Points - 191 (Improvement by 20)
Accuracy - 42.6%

Goals Conceded - 48 (Improvement by 7)
Behinds conceded - 18
Total Points - 306 (Improvement by 60).
Opposition Accuracy - 72.7%

Percentage - 62.4%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 80% win rate.

2023;

Disposal Difference - We were -126
Tackles - We were +18
Tackles I50 - We were +1
Scoring Shots - We were -40 !!
Clearances - We were -9
Inside 50s - We were -66!!
Marks I50 - We were -34!!
Metres Gained - We were -2804

Goals Scored - 24
Behinds Scored - 27
Total points - 171
Accuracy - 47.1%

Goals conceded - 55
Behinds Conceded - 36
Total points - 366
Accuracy - 60.4%

Percentage - 46.7%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 62.5%

All the while we've come against what looks like stronger opposition based on form guides from the first few rounds.

Hopefully we can all take a deep breath. It's been frustrating to lose but we are still in development mode. Biggest thing we need to start working on IMO is our tackling. The one area where we are getting comprehensively outhunted by the opposition. Hopefully get the mouth guards out at training.

The first 3 rounds last year were undoubtedly grim but that period shouldn’t be the benchmark for measuring progress.

It’s reasonable to have expected the better level achieved over the year (and we still finished bottom 4) to be sustained or improved upon, and it hasn’t so far. Worpel is the only guy who was on the list last year who seems to have meaningfully improved. Most are playing quite a lot worse. The new recruits fortunately are doing well.

Why have we once again regressed at the start of the season? This has become a repeat pattern over several years that shouldn’t be ignored even if once again performances improve over the course of the year. Is it expectation and they only play well once the season has little hope of going anywhere? Is it something to do with pre season training / commitment?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The results are certainly not as bad as they were in the equivalent fixtures last season.

Realistically that's a sign of our gradual improvement.

But these performances don't really correlate with the talk of finals and their being no ceiling to our season, etc, which was parroted by some posters all preseason.

The main issue for us has been the quarters we s**t the bed and let the other teams do whatever they want. We have been able to readjust after the quarter breaks, but haven't been able to do anything about it during the quarters themselves. It's good that we could adjust, but the next step is to be able to do it during the opposition's period of momentum. I think there is a lack of on-field leadership that has an impact on this.

At the end of the day I believe we are on track to be a team that could possibly push for finals next season, and after that we make a real run. The main core of youngsters will be all hitting the right age, and should have reached the 50-80 game mark, by this time.

 

[SSSSSS]

The results are certainly not as bad as they were in the equivalent fixtures last season.

Realistically that's a sign of our gradual improvement.

But these performances don't really correlate with the talk of finals and their being no ceiling to our season, etc, which was parroted by some posters all preseason.

The main issue for us has been the quarters we s**t the bed and let the other teams do whatever they want. We have been able to readjust after the quarter breaks, but haven't been able to do anything about it during the quarters themselves. It's good that we could adjust, but the next step is to be able to do it during the opposition's period of momentum. I think there is a lack of on-field leadership that has an impact on this.

At the end of the day I believe we are on track to be a team that could possibly push for finals next season, and after that we make a real run. The main core of youngsters will be all hitting the right age, and should have reached the 50-80 game mark, by this time.

I think we have been better this year at stopping opponents when they are on a roll within the game but we still seem to lack the maturity to kill their momentum within the quarter. Always seems like we need that five minute break and a tactical reset before we can win a quarter back.

We aren't yet at a stage where we can stop them blowing us out of the water in a 20 minute burst but if it's some consolation we haven't (yet) completely lost our bundle and get smashed for the entire game like we did against Sydney + Geelong last year.

I'm hoping with experience comes consistency, especially across 4 quarters. We haven't really had a proper 4 quarter performance outside of the Pies game.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I think we have been better this year at stopping opponents when they are on a roll within the game but we still seem to lack the maturity to kill their momentum within the quarter. Always seems like we need that five minute break and a tactical reset before we can win a quarter back.

We aren't yet at a stage where we can stop them blowing us out of the water in a 20 minute burst but if it's some consolation we haven't (yet) completely lost our bundle and get smashed for the entire game like we did against Sydney + Geelong last year.

I'm hoping with experience comes consistency, especially across 4 quarters. We haven't really had a proper 4 quarter performance outside of the Pies game.

If ever we were going to try that nonsense we tried last it should have been after Geelong kicked their third or fourth goal in the first quarter. Try to kill the game for 5 or 10 minutes and then try to play our natural style.

 

[TheFourPillars]

The results are certainly not as bad as they were in the equivalent fixtures last season.

Realistically that's a sign of our gradual improvement.

But these performances don't really correlate with the talk of finals and their being no ceiling to our season, etc, which was parroted by some posters all preseason.

The main issue for us has been the quarters we s**t the bed and let the other teams do whatever they want. We have been able to readjust after the quarter breaks, but haven't been able to do anything about it during the quarters themselves. It's good that we could adjust, but the next step is to be able to do it during the opposition's period of momentum. I think there is a lack of on-field leadership that has an impact on this.

At the end of the day I believe we are on track to be a team that could possibly push for finals next season, and after that we make a real run. The main core of youngsters will be all hitting the right age, and should have reached the 50-80 game mark, by this time.

Yes parroted is the right word because it was the players driving it. Its always a great mentality to stretch yourself to aim high. Yes you might fail but aspirations always need to reach for the sky. Its how we won in 2008. I mean Geelong clearly the better side and yet... Now i am not drawing comparisons just showing the mentality that most high achievers have. Most of them fail but pick themselves up and keep going and achieve success eventually. Being realistic sets limits on yourself where you're happy and content with what you have achieved just because you were being realistic.

We have come up against two very mature sides in the last two weeks and been found out. This week we weren't disgraced we put up a fight but were not good enough and that happens.

 

[H00t]

I think we have been better this year at stopping opponents when they are on a roll within the game but we still seem to lack the maturity to kill their momentum within the quarter. Always seems like we need that five minute break and a tactical reset before we can win a quarter back.

We aren't yet at a stage where we can stop them blowing us out of the water in a 20 minute burst but if it's some consolation we haven't (yet) completely lost our bundle and get smashed for the entire game like we did against Sydney + Geelong last year.

I'm hoping with experience comes consistency, especially across 4 quarters. We haven't really had a proper 4 quarter performance outside of the Pies game.

Clearances are a big part of this I feel. As soon as we start losing clearances we just spiral while when we are winning them that’s when we gain the momentum.

Our mids put on a better showing this week but need to lift another level or two still.

 

[SSSSSS]

The first 3 rounds last year were undoubtedly grim but that period shouldn’t be the benchmark for measuring progress.

It’s reasonable to have expected the better level achieved over the year (and we still finished bottom 4) to be sustained or improved upon, and it hasn’t so far. Worpel is the only guy who was on the list last year who seems to have meaningfully improved. Most are playing quite a lot worse. The new recruits fortunately are doing well.

Why have we once again regressed at the start of the season? This has become a repeat pattern over several years that shouldn’t be ignored even if once again performances improve over the course of the year. Is it expectation and they only play well once the season has little hope of going anywhere? Is it something to do with pre season training / commitment?

You can only take so much from statistics from 3 rounds of footy so obviously it all comes with a pinch of salt. Tried to compare it like for like with the opposition as otherwise you're comparing apples to orange (TBH with how much player movement there is and differences in individual player form, even comparing like to like is apple to oranges in a way).

I thought it would be interesting to see how we compare to our Round 21-23 performance. Two wins against the Pies and the Dogs and what I would consider to be an honourable loss to the Demons. I didn't include the Freo game as that one just felt like an absolute cop out with both teams going through the motions.

Round 21 - 23 (Collingwood, WBD, Melbourne)

Disposal Differential + 246 (Regression by 236!!)
Tackles - -39 (Regression by 36)
Tackles I50 - +4 (Improved by +8)
Scoring Shots - +3 (Regression by 8)
Clearances - +14 (Regression by 21!!)
Inside 50s - Broke even (Improvement by 2)
Marks Inside 50 - +4 (Regression by 7)
Metres Gained - +136m (Regression by -427m)

Goals Scored - 34 (Regression by 8 goals)
Behinds Scored - 28
Total points - 232 (Regression by 41)
Goals conceded - 33
Behinds conceded - 26
Total points - 226
Percentage of 102.6%

Obviously cherry picking and comparing to some of our best patch of form last year but it sticks out like dogs balls that our midfield was firing on all cylinders at our best and currently we are a long way away from that. We are certainly not a very good tackling side (even at our best) and that needs to be improved upon.

Fixing up our midfield is going to go a long way in determining our fortunes this year. The additions to the forward line have certainly improved our pressure when the ball hits the deck and despite our lacklustre midfield performance we seem to be doing comparatively as well as we did last year in terms of I50 generation + marks I50 and scoring shots.

 

[SSSSSS]

Clearances are a big part of this I feel. As soon as we start losing clearances we just spiral while when we are winning them that’s when we gain the momentum.

Our mids put on a better showing this week but need to lift another level or two still.

See above - Clearances are definitely our biggest regression outside of overall disposal count but it all starts from the middle.

 

[DogDaySonny]

There is always a bit of doom and gloom after a 0-3 start but I can't help but feel we have improved compared to this time last year. I had a look at the numbers to see if they would agree.

Comparing our first games between Essendon (R1), Geelong (R4) and Melbourne (R9) last year

Improvements have been bolded.

2024;
Disposal Difference - We are +10 (Improvement by 136)
Tackles - We are -65
Tackles I50 - We are +12 (Improvement by 11)
Scoring Shots - We are -5 (Improvement by 35)
Clearances - We are -7 (Improvement by 2)
Inside 50s - We are +2 (Improvement by 68)
Marks I50 - We are -3 (Improvement by 31)
Metres Gained - We are -563 (Improvement by 2241)

Goals Scored - 26 (Improvement by 2)
Behinds Scored - 35
Total Points - 191 (Improvement by 20)
Accuracy - 42.6%

Goals Conceded - 48 (Improvement by 7)
Behinds conceded - 18
Total Points - 306 (Improvement by 60).
Opposition Accuracy - 72.7%

Percentage - 62.4%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 80% win rate.

2023;

Disposal Difference - We were -126
Tackles - We were +18
Tackles I50 - We were +1
Scoring Shots - We were -40 !!
Clearances - We were -9
Inside 50s - We were -66!!
Marks I50 - We were -34!!
Metres Gained - We were -2804

Goals Scored - 24
Behinds Scored - 27
Total points - 171
Accuracy - 47.1%

Goals conceded - 55
Behinds Conceded - 36
Total points - 366
Accuracy - 60.4%

Percentage - 46.7%

Opposition Strength based on WL ratios - 62.5%

All the while we've come against what looks like stronger opposition based on form guides from the first few rounds.

Hopefully we can all take a deep breath. It's been frustrating to lose but we are still in development mode. Biggest thing we need to start working on IMO is our tackling. The one area where we are getting comprehensively outhunted by the opposition. Hopefully get the mouth guards out at training.

Make our shots at goal and we're 2-1. Simple as that. Now we knew the front line would be a bit of a shambles as it was almost completely turned over this year, but dang, still it's frustrating.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Yes parroted is the right word because it was the players driving it. Its always a great mentality to stretch yourself to aim high. Yes you might fail but aspirations always need to reach for the sky. Its how we won in 2008. I mean Geelong clearly the better side and yet... Now i am not drawing comparisons just showing the mentality that most high achievers have. Most of them fail but pick themselves up and keep going and achieve success eventually. Being realistic sets limits on yourself where you're happy and content with what you have achieved just because you were being realistic.

We have come up against two very mature sides in the last two weeks and been found out. This week we weren't disgraced we put up a fight but were not good enough and that happens.

To be clear that wasn't directed at you in any way TFP.

You're the most valuable poster on here, IMO, and I have not seen you s**t on other posters for suggesting different time frames, etc, for our development and ascendency. Unlike others you are respectful and will explain your opinions.

Agree that we lost to two experienced sides, on face value these were not unexpected results if we were being honest about where we are.

Unfortunately both teams jumped us, and whilst we fought back in the second quarter the rest of the game went the way you'd expect.

 

[TheFourPillars]

To be clear that wasn't directed at you in any way TFP.

You're the most valuable poster on here, IMO, and I have not seen you s**t on other posters for suggesting different time frames, etc, for our development and ascendency. Unlike others you are respectful and will explain your opinions.

Agree that we lost to two experienced sides, on face value these were not unexpected results if we were being honest about where we are.

Unfortunately both teams jumped us, and whilst we fought back in the second quarter the rest of the game went the way you'd expect.

All good mate I didn't take it personally . I was just talking about the mentality of the players and the coaches prior to the season commencing.

 

[Sixpence]

The results are certainly not as bad as they were in the equivalent fixtures last season.

Realistically that's a sign of our gradual improvement.

But these performances don't really correlate with the talk of finals and their being no ceiling to our season, etc, which was parroted by some posters all preseason.

The main issue for us has been the quarters we s**t the bed and let the other teams do whatever they want. We have been able to readjust after the quarter breaks, but haven't been able to do anything about it during the quarters themselves. It's good that we could adjust, but the next step is to be able to do it during the opposition's period of momentum. I think there is a lack of on-field leadership that has an impact on this.

At the end of the day I believe we are on track to be a team that could possibly push for finals next season, and after that we make a real run. The main core of youngsters will be all hitting the right age, and should have reached the 50-80 game mark, by this time.

Agree with nearly of this, will just say, I don't think anyone legitimately expected we were going to play finals. It was only ever really an outside possibility, with most thinking next year was more probable.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Agree with nearly of this, will just say, I don't think anyone legitimately expected we were going to play finals. It was only ever really an outside possibility, with most thinking next year was more probable.

There are/were some posters who were VERY bullish.

 

[SSSSSS]

The biggest silver lining for me is despite our best players all crapping it up in Newcombe, Lewis and Sicily we aren't that far off the mark.

If these three (pending Lewis fitness) can pull the finger out and Day returns strong we are going to be in a good spot. We are showing at least that we can be competitive without relying on our best players.

That is some growth at least.

 

[Sixpence]

There are/were some posters who were VERY bullish.

Bit of optimism doesn't hurt, Ned. There's also a big difference between that and stating outright that we'll make finals.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Bit of optimism doesn't hurt, Ned. There's also a big difference between that and stating outright that we'll make finals.

I am all for cautious optimism also - but there was a bit of a prevailing attitude that how dare you temper expectations if you weren't joining the 2024 finals train.

As wonderful as optimism is - I think when you're still in the midst of a rebuild and have as many young players as we do that realism is going to lead to a lot less gameday melts when we are still losing more than we win.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I am all for cautious optimism also - but there was a bit of a prevailing attitude that how dare you temper expectations if you weren't joining the 2024 finals train.

As wonderful as optimism is - I think when you're still in the midst of a rebuild and have as many young players as we do that realism is going to lead to a lot less gameday melts when we are still losing more than we win.

Nothing not realism or optism will change the gameday melts. I mean you should know and if in doubt go visit some of the gameday threads in 2014 and 2015

 

[ahhhhhh]

The biggest silver lining for me is despite our best players all crapping it up in Newcombe, Lewis and Sicily we aren't that far off the mark.

If these three (pending Lewis fitness) can pull the finger out and Day returns strong we are going to be in a good spot. We are showing at least that we can be competitive without relying on our best players.

That is some growth at least.

I'm a bit worried about Lewis now. Doesn't seem like he'll ever put it together for a season.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Nothing not realism or optism will change the gameday melts. I mean you should know and if in doubt go visit some of the gameday threads in 2014 and 2015

Well I never said we'd wipe them out entirely. I still remember my favourite thread ever which was the one asking if people were disappointed in the 2015 season before the finals series had started.

 

[Yardie]

Well I never said we'd wipe them out entirely. I still remember my favourite thread ever which was the one asking if people were disappointed in the 2015 season before the finals series had started.

Finishing third, playing away, losing the first final and then a prelim over west saved me some pennies.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

We’re below Norf on the ladder