Scott Welsh leaving

[finn]

Re: Welsh gone

second round pick
probably would have changed the hudson trade from #30 to #22.

 

[Gets!]

Re: Welsh gone

For your 1st team in 2008 I reckon it will look something like this --

FB Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
HB McLeod, Stevens, Symes
C Reilly, Knights, Van Berlo
HF Burton, Bock, Porplyzia
FF Tippett, McGregor, Vince
Ruck Maric, Goodwin, Thompson
I/C Griffin, Douglas, Edwards, Massie
Emerg Biglands, Gill, MacKay

Hentschel to come in when fit enough, assuming the others are all fit, and maybe a recruit or 2, depending on who they are?

Why on earth would Gill be an emergency?!

 

[mymansyd]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Insightful post Vader. Well done.

And a good wake-up call from the Mad Dog: "People are forgetting....it's Scott Welsh FFS."

 

[- PC -]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I dont believe Welsh will be playing anywhere else but Adelaide next year. I believe this is the usual managers tactic of talking up his client by saying other clubs are interested.

If I am wrong I wholeheartedly endorse you to bump this to show everyone I was wrong

Then you and Scotty Clayton can have a laugh about it

I was wrong.

 

[Asgardian]

Re: Welsh gone

Gill & McGregor are interchangeable IMO

It's either one of them, but not both, otherwise you become top heavy, thinking of course that you'd want to introduce some new blood with Tippett/Sellar.

Bock is a better CHB, but I think you can cover that with Stevens, whereas he is the best you have for CHF. McGregor doesn't have the mobility for the position, and Gill would be better at FF, where he can't roam as much.

Personally I'd have Gill in the team instead of McGregor at FF, but I reckon Craig will start off with Ken there.

 

[Drummond]

Re: Welsh gone

Match Winning Forward?

Like 1 match a year.

More than that, but still, he was capable of being a match winner.

Of course it's a suspect looking forward line. We're rebuilding it.

It'd look more suspect with Welsh in there anyway.

You're having a laugh, surely? Yes his departure will open the door for others, but there is no way with Welsh in the forward line it looks/looked more suspect. That's just ridiculous. Even if he had no impact on a game, he took away the best defender who will now go to someone else.

For your 1st team in 2008 I reckon it will look something like this --

FB Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
HB McLeod, Stevens, Symes
C Reilly, Knights, Van Berlo
HF Burton, Bock, Porplyzia
FF Tippett, McGregor, Vince
Ruck Maric, Goodwin, Thompson
I/C Griffin, Douglas, Edwards, Massie
Emerg Biglands, Gill, MacKay

Hentschel to come in when fit enough, assuming the others are all fit, and maybe a recruit or 2, depending on who they are?

Why have you posted our team for next year? Oh and Bock is NOT a forward.

Luke Jericho come on down!

Spare us all.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: Welsh gone

Gill & McGregor are interchangeable IMO

It's either one of them, but not both, otherwise you become top heavy, thinking of course that you'd want to introduce some new blood with Tippett/Sellar.

Bock is a better CHB, but I think you can cover that with Stevens, whereas he is the best you have for CHF. McGregor doesn't have the mobility for the position, and Gill would be better at FF, where he can't roam as much.

Personally I'd have Gill in the team instead of McGregor at FF, but I reckon Craig will start off with Ken there.

going by how Craig used the team this past year. If I were you I would drop one of those interchange players for Gill. It's too small. Welsh and or Gill in the last half of the season would start on the bench and come on as a replacement for the 'lead up' forward half way through a quarter. Our lead up forward needs to be able to run most of the day and as such this was why they were interchanged fairly regularly off the bench so that they could run the game out strong.

McGregor has one of the best engines in our team (which most people forget) and Gill has also been used down back, so he provides some great flexibility with Stevens, Bock and McGregor for the coaching staff to use.

 

[iamthestig]

Re: Welsh gone

I know he was probably the best forward we had, but our forward line has been the biggest problem with our side for years. Keeping the same players means keeping the stame structure means keeping the same problems. I actually think it will be a good thing. At Welshy's age he was not going to be around for long anyway so getting a new forward line ALL DEVELOPING TOGETHER will be a good thing. It might be a bit dysfunctional for a season or 2 but it will be better in the long run.

Bye Scotty, give my regards to Meese and Huddo...

 

[Minotaur]

Re: Welsh gone

Scott Welsh quits Adelaide Crows
Forward Scott Welsh has quit the Adelaide Crows and will nominate for the AFL pre-season draft. The 29-year-old, a triple leading goal kicker with the Crows, quit after failing to come to terms with the club on a new contract. "The club is disappointed the negotiations couldn't be resolved," Crows football operations manager John Reid said. "Unfortunately the behaviour issues this year were significant to the point that the club believed Scott needed to have a season where there were no behavioural issues at all before it would negotiate another season." The Crows ordered Welsh perform behaviour counselling after the goalsneak was involved in an incident outside a city nightclub in September this year. An 18-year-old woman complained to police that Welsh slapped her across the face with his jumper outside a nightclub, but no charges were laid. --AAP

What is the point of kicking him on the way out? Pretty ordinary if you ask me.

 

[- PC -]

Re: Welsh gone

you're a man of many parts M23.....

All of what you're saying is exactly how I feel. It's difficult to respond without being contradictory. When it comes down to it though

Club > individual.

and that's how it should be rationalised IMO

Im the same. My feelings on Welsh are well known, I dont rate him due to a lot of things, but he can perform when he wants to, so I keep quiet.

His year was good, not outstanding but a good return for both he and the club. He showed he can compete , he showed he can kick goals, he just needed to get his body right

Am I disappointed he is leaving? Yes and no...mainly yes because I said he would be staying.

But as you posted it is the club that is bigger than the individual and while this may seem a black day there is always a positive to be found

 

[- PC -]

Re: Welsh gone

Is anyone REALLY surprised by this?!

Considering our treatment of older players in the last couple of years (rightly or wrongly) and the somewhat questionable policy for 30 year olds and those approaching 30, I am in no way surprised that Welsh took the option of securing his finacial future for the next 2-3 years and ably support his young family.

If you can categorically state that the AFC applied the age policy to Scott Welsh then I will agree with everything you said

But I feel there were other different issues that led to the AFC taking the stance it did

Yes Welsh has to look after himself, good luck to him in wanting and doing that, but dont lump the AFCs policy as the reason he is leaving

 

[Drummond]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Policy
The AFC have two policies regarding their older players, it seems that many posters on this thread are getting the two confused.

Firstly, they have a stated policy of not retaining players who are not "tier one" beyond their 30th birthdays. To a certain extent, this policy is being driven by the age profile of Adelaide's list - a problem which has been developing for a long time, largely as a result of abysmal drafting under Adolph Ayres.

Is this policy set in stone? Not sure. It certainly appears as though Torney was a victim of this policy.

Is the policy correct? In the short term it definitely is. We can't afford to hang onto all these non tier-one players, because they are never going to take us to a flag and right now the only thing they are doing is holding back the development of the ever growing list of crushers. In the longer term, I also believe it to be a good policy. How many other teams hold onto non-star players beyond their 30th birthdays? Surely that only leads to mediocrity?

The second policy, which appears to have many people confused, is the decision to only give 1-year contracts to players once they have turned 30.

This policy does come with a loophole though - players CAN get a 2-year contract if it is signed BEFORE their 30th birthdays. Examples of this are McLeod and Biglands.

Once again, I would submit that this is a valid policy based on risk reduction. Players can drop off rapidly when the end draws near - look at Ricciuto in 2007 and Nigel Smart in 2004. Signing older players to multi-year contracts does nothing more than increasing the risk of being left with a hefty contract to be paid out, with little or no value from the player - eg Michael Voss' situation with Brisbane in 2007.

I think that Adelaide are on the right track with these policies. It may be harsh, but ultimately it is the best thing for the club. Superstar players know that they will be looked after, lesser lights know that they should look elsewhere as age 30 approaches. I don't see either of these things as being detrimental to the club.

Great post and I can see where the club is coming from but my word it’s a dangerous scheme. Torney was a first 22 player and was one of the few players in an up and down season who could be counted upon to perform each and every week. So tossing him aside just because he’s 30 is a dangerous thing to do. I realise Torney wasn’t and never will be a star, but he’s an ever reliable player.

I understand we have a very old list and must start turning over some players and I applaud them for doing so because our current squad wasn’t going to win us a Premiership. In saying that, the policy of dumping 2nd tier players when they reach 30 is a very dangerous one. Should Torney have been dumped? IMO no, especially when there are guys like Doughty and Jericho still on the list. Doughty still has a year to run on his contract but that didn’t stop us dumping Alan Obst last year. I guess they’ve realised that we didn’t have a squad capable of winning a Premiership so they’re going to delist/trade anyone who won’t be around for the next flag. I have no issues with this plan, but I hope it’s not something that’s set in stone because while it may be the right thing to do now, it might not be the right thing to do in 5 years.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Re: Welsh gone

Scott Welsh quits Adelaide Crows
Forward Scott Welsh has quit the Adelaide Crows and will nominate for the AFL pre-season draft. The 29-year-old, a triple leading goal kicker with the Crows, quit after failing to come to terms with the club on a new contract. "The club is disappointed the negotiations couldn't be resolved," Crows football operations manager John Reid said. "Unfortunately the behaviour issues this year were significant to the point that the club believed Scott needed to have a season where there were no behavioural issues at all before it would negotiate another season." The Crows ordered Welsh perform behaviour counselling after the goalsneak was involved in an incident outside a city nightclub in September this year. An 18-year-old woman complained to police that Welsh slapped her across the face with his jumper outside a nightclub, but no charges were laid. --AAP

What is the point of kicking him on the way out? Pretty ordinary if you ask me.

Everyone knows he has had off field issues and its obviously a major reason why he wasnt offered what he wanted. I have no problems with this, damned if they do damned if they dont. We have had an article written in the past few days that we are soft on off field incidents now they take a stand and people still criticize. Go and ask Williams how happy he was when Nick Stevens and Brent Guerra left and why.

 

[Cap]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Great post and I can see where the club is coming from but my word it’s a dangerous scheme. Torney was a first 22 player and was one of the few players in an up and down season who could be counted upon to perform each and every week. So tossing him aside just because he’s 30 is a dangerous thing to do. I realise Torney wasn’t and never will be a star, but he’s an ever reliable player.

I understand we have a very old list and must start turning over some players and I applaud them for doing so because our current squad wasn’t going to win us a Premiership. In saying that, the policy of dumping 2nd tier players when they reach 30 is a very dangerous one. Should Torney have been dumped? IMO no, especially when there are guys like Doughty and Jericho still on the list. Doughty still has a year to run on his contract but that didn’t stop us dumping Alan Obst last year. I guess they’ve realised that we didn’t have a squad capable of winning a Premiership so they’re going to delist/trade anyone who won’t be around for the next flag. I have no issues with this plan, but I hope it’s not something that’s set in stone because while it may be the right thing to do now, it might not be the right thing to do in 5 years.

I reckon he will have a few restless nights towards the end of next season.

 

[Minotaur]

Re: Welsh gone

Everyone knows he has had off field issues and its obviously a major reason why he wasnt offered what he wanted. I have no problems with this, damned if they do damned if they dont. We have had an article written in the past few days that we are soft on off field incidents now they take a stand and people still criticize. Go and ask Williams how happy he was when Nick Stevens and Brent Guerra left and why.

Sticking the knife in after the fact is the type of thing that Williams would do. Doesn't make it right

I wasn't aware of the article on the Crows being soft. From the outside it looks like a highly regimented scene at Crowland.

 

[matty_bulldogs]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

So hearing the news today that he will or wants to come to the dogs, what are the problems that we face having him on our list besides being injury prone.. Is he a worth while pick up?

P.s But i don't think he will last in the draft to us...

 

[IddyBiddy]

Re: Welsh gone

Sticking the knife in after the fact is the type of thing that Williams would do. Doesn't make it right

I wasn't aware of the article on the Crows being soft. From the outside it looks like a highly regimented scene at Crowland.

Sure i'll go and ask Mr Scott shall I ? Subtle as a sledge hammer....

 

[FlyingCrow]

Re: Welsh gone

I have been a fan of the five good games he has each year.

The rest are mediocre. He is too slight to play FF, gets pushed off the ball too easily. His high goal count is a testament to his goal kicking accuracy. Being 29 in December the most we would of seen of him was two years anyway.

Next year will be a rebuilding year no doubts about it. Tippett Sellar and maybe Walker will get a chance to make Welsh's spot theres. The only disapointment I would have in him leaving is if we dont blood a youngster to DOMINATE the forward line. We have not had a player do that since Modra.

Rember what happened the last time our club turned over so many high profile players....

Not saying we are GF bound, but I beleive we are heading into a positive era of the Adelaide Football CLub, 2009 onwards.

 

[jaxx]

Re: Welsh gone

Just heard Reidy on 5AA....

-Mentioned significant behavioural problems a number of times without expanding.
-Said the conditions they would have wanted to write into his contract (to activate 2 years) would have had too many grey areas come the end of the year.
-Said there was part of Neil's program Scott hadn't embraced and had a problem with but they would have worked through that with him.
-Said his name was on the list at trade week but he didnt think clubs were interested sufficiently to do a trade and are only interested now as they can get him for free.

 

[big schnitzel]

Re: Welsh gone

My forward line:

FP: JOHNCOCK/PORPLYZIA FF: MCGREGOR FP: VINCE/THOMPSON

HFF: BURTON CHF: HENTSCHEL/TIPPETT HFF: GILL

Johncock a must to play up forward, as without Welsh we are VERY short on pace.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Re: Welsh gone

Just heard Reidy on 5AA....

-Mentioned significant behavioural problems a number of times without expanding.
-Said the conditions they would have wanted to write into his contract (to activate 2 years) would have had too many grey areas come the end of the year.
-Said there was part of Neil's program Scott hadn't embraced and had a problem with but they would have worked through that with him.
-Said his name was on the list at trade week but he didnt think clubs were interested sufficiently to do a trade and are only interested now as they can get him for free.

Thanks for that Jaxx, stuck at work, so much appreciated.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Re: Welsh gone

Just heard Reidy on 5AA....

-Mentioned significant behavioural problems a number of times without expanding.
-Said the conditions they would have wanted to write into his contract (to activate 2 years) would have had too many grey areas come the end of the year.
-Said there was part of Neil's program Scott hadn't embraced and had a problem with but they would have worked through that with him.
-Said his name was on the list at trade week but he didnt think clubs were interested sufficiently to do a trade and are only interested now as they can get him for free.

Very interesting interview, I dont recall Reid ever being as strong in his 'tone' about someone than that for a long time.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Welsh gone

If you can categorically state that the AFC applied the age policy to Scott Welsh then I will agree with everything you said

But I feel there were other different issues that led to the AFC taking the stance it did

Yes Welsh has to look after himself, good luck to him in wanting and doing that, but dont lump the AFCs policy as the reason he is leaving

Did you hear John Reid on 5AA?!

The bullshit artist was choking on his own bullshit! I mean seriously, he was covering up left right and center.

OK, so the club was concerned with Scott's behaviour this year and they said that if he could keep in line by june, the club would start negotiating for a new contract with him. So when Welshy said, OK I am happy to meet that criteria but I would like some assurance. I would like to include a clause in my contract that says if I meet the criteria you set out, I will be given a new contract after this season.

That seemed a fair enough for me but apparently it would have been "too hard" to write those into the contract and club didn't want to go down that path because of Welsh's behavioural issues.

Reidy spare me the crap and PLEASE do not insult my or anyone else's intelligence here. Just because you are a Football Operations Manager at one of the best clubs in the AFL, it doesn't mean that you are smarter than anyone else out there. I have been around the joint enough to realise that your speak for "too hard" is you covering your ass in this because you and I both know very well that Scott Welsh, had he agreed to your proposed 1 year deal would NOT be getting a new contract next year regardless of whether or not he met the criteria you set out for him. The reason for you to find it "too hard" to include that clause into a contract is because you don't want to be legally liable when the october comes around and you have to delist Welsh. He will be 30 in december next year so that automatically rings alarm bells for anyone thats not a 1st tier player.

So why hide behind the little crappy "too hard" line and come out and say that you are not interested in giving him 2 years because of the profile of our list. I am sick and tired of the bullshit that JR tries to paddle and treat us as dumb dicksplashes. I think the supporters deserve a bit more credit than that.

I have no major issues with Welsh's departure. It has its positives and negatives and while I prefered for him to stay, I am not gutted that he is gone but I am disappointed with the party line that the club is paddling out and the press release smacked of bitterness and lack of class from JR's part

 

[FlyingCrow]

Re: Welsh gone

I think the off field issues have cost Welsh. As well as on filed issue, but if he didnt enjoy a few off field things too much the on filed issues would be tolerated and he would have more than 1 year contracts.

 

[FlyingCrow]

Re: Welsh gone

Did you hear John Reid on 5AA?!

The bullshit artist was choking on his own bullshit! I mean seriously, he was covering up left right and center.

OK, so the club was concerned with Scott's behaviour this year and they said that if he could keep in line by june, the club would start negotiating for a new contract with him. So when Welshy said, OK I am happy to meet that criteria but I would like some assurance. I would like to include a clause in my contract that says if I meet the criteria you set out, I will be given a new contract after this season.

That seemed a fair enough for me but apparently it would have been "too hard" to write those into the contract and club didn't want to go down that path because of Welsh's behavioural issues.

Reidy spare me the crap and PLEASE do not insult my or anyone else's intelligence here. Just because you are a Football Operations Manager at one of the best clubs in the AFL, it doesn't mean that you are smarter than anyone else out there. I have been around the joint enough to realise that your speak for "too hard" is you covering your ass in this because you and I both know very well that Scott Welsh, had he agreed to your proposed 1 year deal would NOT be getting a new contract next year regardless of whether or not he met the criteria you set out for him. The reason for you to find it "too hard" to include that clause into a contract is because you don't want to be legally liable when the october comes around and you have to delist Welsh. He will be 30 in december next year so that automatically rings alarm bells for anyone thats not a 1st tier player.

So why hide behind the little crappy "too hard" line and come out and say that you are not interested in giving him 2 years because of the profile of our list. I am sick and tired of the bullshit that JR tries to paddle and treat us as dumb dicksplashes. I think the supporters deserve a bit more credit than that.

I have no major issues with Welsh's departure. It has its positives and negatives and while I prefered for him to stay, I am not gutted that he is gone but I am disappointed with the party line that the club is paddling out and the press release smacked of bitterness and lack of class from JR's part

Reid cant come out and tell the tuth about Welsh. Hence the skirting around the issue. I heard it and actually felt sorry for him.