Recommitted Shai Bolton [re-signed]

[Rioli2Rioli]

Your opinion or Fact . Anybody can said a lot of offer coming in without prove .

And what did Jack Martin do in his first few years ? 2014 was the year he was 19 and he played 11 (gifted) games in a very very weak GC side and averaged 11 touches and less than a goal

Shai Bolton has walked into a premiership team full of players playing his position, So the kid needs to dislodge a premiership player to get a game
Richmonds foward line has a set 3 KPP in Riewoldt,Townsend,Caddy with the other spots filled by
Shane Edwards
Dan Butler
Jason Castagna
Daniel Rioli

Whilst having the likes of Dustin Martin,Dion Prestia,Trent Cotchin rotating through

WOW - This kid must be useless if he cant get a Game

 

[Peel67skin]

And what did Jack Martin do in his first few years ? 2014 was the year he was 19 and he played 11 (gifted) games in a very very weak GC side and averaged 11 touches and less than a goal

Shai Bolton has walked into a premiership team full of players playing his position, So the kid needs to dislodge a premiership player to get a game
Richmonds foward line has a set 3 KPP in Riewoldt,Townsend,Caddy with the other spots filled by
Shane Edwards
Dan Butler
Jason Castagna
Daniel Rioli

Whilst having the likes of Dustin Martin,Dion Prestia,Trent Cotchin rotating through

WOW - This kid must be useless if he cant get a Game

Nobody said he is useless , you got some first round pick like Higgins and Rioli around too as competition for best 22 . I don't think Hawthorn let go of Kennedy to sydney because he is useless .
The best scenario for him is fight it out with his teammates for best 22. He could turn up to be superstar or Ben lennon .

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Nobody said he is useless , you got some first round pick like Higgins and Rioli around too as competition for best 22 . I don't think Hawthorn let go of Kennedy to sydney because he is useless.

The thing is the kid was the youngest player of his draft and has just turned 19, He will take time and is extremely exciting with what he has shown so far and most Richmond supporters rate him extremely highly 'Rioli' High in some cases

But the kid atm doesnt have a tank and needs to work on his game which is fine but his potential is huge, If he decides he wants to go back home he wont be given away as Richmond know exactly what he is worth as well as the football teams in the west but lets hope that doesnt occur as this kid could be anything and we are talking Matera,Rioli type player but at the same time could also be a bust - Which is also fine as he was a freebie to Richmond with the Tyrone Vickery compo pick

 

[Peel67skin]

The thing is the kid was the youngest player of his draft and has just turned 19, He will take time and is extremely exciting with what he has shown so far and most Richmond supporters rate him extremely highly 'Rioli' High in some cases

But the kid atm doesnt have a tank and needs to work on his game which is fine but his potential is huge, If he decides he wants to go back home he wont be given away as Richmond know exactly what he is worth as well as the football teams in the west but lets hope that doesnt occur as this kid could be anything and we are talking Matera,Rioli type player but at the same time could also be a bust - Which is also fine as he was a freebie to Richmond with the Tyrone Vickery compo pick

I don't disagree but i think your club might let him go for under if he is really home sick, draft pick depend a bit on
luck , you might pick a potato in 20+ and get somebody like graham or nathan broad in the 40-50+ .

 

[Joao]

So the evidence (from 2017 alone) for him depreciating is:
Schache pick 2 -> Pick 25 + 40
Balic pick 38 -> Pick 66
Kennedy pick 13 -> Pick 28

And the evidence for staying the same or appreciating is:
An article saying that Carlton were interested in Tom Mitchell? Even if another club rated him that high you'd be daft to say so publicly like that. The Titch one is completely different given he was contracted and Carlton were trying to shake him loose.
Comparing him to Jack Martin who wasn't even traded?
Sam Murray rookie -> Pies 2nd Rnd 2018

Kennedy played 17 games or so in his two seasons and was a higher pick. He still lost 15 draft spots. No chance Shai maintains his value if he doesn't play and play well.

 

[Toadvine]

So the evidence (from 2017 alone) for him depreciating is:
Schache pick 2 -> Pick 25 + 40
Balic pick 38 -> Pick 66
Kennedy pick 13 -> Pick 28

And the evidence for staying the same or appreciating is:
An article saying that Carlton were interested in Tom Mitchell? Even if another club rated him that high you'd be daft to say so publicly like that. The Titch one is completely different given he was contracted and Carlton were trying to shake him loose.
Comparing him to Jack Martin who wasn't even traded?
Sam Murray rookie -> Pies 2nd Rnd 2018

Kennedy played 17 games or so in his two seasons and was a higher pick. He still lost 15 draft spots. No chance Shai maintains his value if he doesn't play and play well.

I think expecting a 19yo small forward to break into a premiership team who's strength is small forward is unrealistic. The other point you seem to be ignoring is that he is dominant at VFL level and this is a kid who if he was born 3 weeks later he would have been too young to be drafted in 2016.
Small forwards are a position that is only increasing value in the AFL and leg speed which Shai has is a very hot commodity in teams right now.
I'm not saying hes going to net us a 1st round pick but I don't think a pick in the top 35 or equivalent value is out of the question.

 

[Joao]

I think expecting a 19yo small forward to break into a premiership team who's strength is small forward is unrealistic. The other point you seem to be ignoring is that he is dominant at VFL level and this is a kid who if he was born 3 weeks later he would have been too young to be drafted in 2016.
Small forwards are a position that is only increasing value in the AFL and leg speed which Shai has is a very hot commodity in teams right now.
I'm not saying hes going to net us a 1st round pick but I don't think a pick in the top 35 or equivalent value is out of the question.

It doesn't matter the reason for him not getting a game. The fact is uncontracted players who are not in the AFL team don't generally hold or appreciate in value. Ripping up the level below won't do it for him either since the vast majority of AFL listed players do that. Balic was getting 30+ each week in the WAFL.

No team is going to go pay you what you think he is worth just because you have better players than him. If you want value, he needs to play AFL, simple as that.

 

[Toadvine]

It doesn't matter the reason for him not getting a game. The fact is uncontracted players who are not in the AFL team don't generally hold or appreciate in value. Ripping up the level below won't do it for him either since the vast majority of AFL listed players do that. Balic was getting 30+ each week in the WAFL.

No team is going to go pay you what you think he is worth just because you have better players than him. If you want value, he needs to play AFL, simple as that.

So someone not getting a game at North who are in dire need of talent is the equivalent of not getting a game a Richmond who are overloaded with players of his type? Of course the reason for him not playing matters. C'mon mate...

What did Hawthorn get for Jed Anderson again? What about Curtly Hampton? Kristian Jaksch? All three of those guys were talented youngsters who were not playing games due to their teams stocked with talent at their position.

In any case it's all just speculation. We'll just have to wait and see won't we?

 

[Joao]

So someone not getting a game at North who are in dire need of talent is the equivalent of not getting a game a Richmond who are overloaded with players of his type? Of course the reason for him not playing matters. C'mon mate...

What did Hawthorn get for Jed Anderson again? What about Curtly Hampton? Kristian Jaksch? All three of those guys were talented youngsters who were not playing games due to their teams stocked with talent at their position.

In any case it's all just speculation. We'll just have to wait and see won't we?

The team you are not playing in makes no difference. Your ability and potential is all that matters and clearly when you are not playing AFL that is harder to prove (this is no fault of Shai of course just the way it is). Nobody is saying that it is not easier to get a game for North, all we are saying is that you either play or you don't, the reasons don't affect the player's value.

What you are effectively saying is that an equivalent player at Richmond is worth more than the same player at North, which is patently untrue. Sure it sucks for you guys that you won't get value for him as your squad is too strong, but no other club is going to pay you more because they feel sorry for you.

Interesting that you selected all first rounders or zone selections for comparison. Were you able to find other 2nd rounders improving or holding their value?

Anderson - North poster to confirm but didn't that involve a lot of pick swaps that rated him at roughly pick 30 odd? In any event, aren't North supporters forever reminded of how terrible a deal that was?

Hampton - he was zone and got traded for a future 2nd or something. Not sure how to value that tbh.

Jaksch pick 12 - with pick 19 and Whiley for 7. Hard to dissociate how much value is placed on him in this one. Also a former pick 12 packaged with a Zone selection and pick 19. Yet again horror trade.

I'll change my assertion. You may get value if a club does a deal as horrible as the Anderson or Jaksch one with the Tigers.

 

[Rich01]

Freo supporters up and about over Shai in this thread insisting he has no trade value. Interesting.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Freo supporters up and about over Shai in this thread insisting he has no trade value. Interesting.

Not really at all. Merely pointing out that players stuck playing in the reserves don't hold their draft value. Which is correct. Very obviously correct.

 

[kimbo83]

Freo supporters up and about over Shai in this thread insisting he has no trade value. Interesting.

He does have value, his value is about a 3rd round pick.

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[Toadvine]

Not really at all. Merely pointing out that players stuck playing in the reserves don't hold their draft value. Which is correct. Very obviously correct.

*cough* Jackch *cough*

 

[Tiger71]

An eight gamer who averages 8 touches and half a goal a game is not fetching a pick in the 20’s


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Treloar got two firsts and he cant even kick to a target and was not worth that price. Come trade time, clubs do over pay, just look at the pies.

 

[eastfreo75]

Treloar got two firsts and he cant even kick to a target and was not worth that price. Come trade time, clubs do over pay, just look at the pies.

Lol

 

[juss]

I don't want to lose him, especially not for a 2nd rounder or less.
He's freakishly talented, you don't trade those guys for cheap when they are young and have so much potential.
Despite not setting the world on fire yet, Bolton hasn't done a lot wrong. He is good at VFL level and continually is working on improving his defensive pressure.

I'm happy with his current development and hope we don't lose him. He can do some amazing things, and if it all clicks, he could be anything.
That's not worth selling off just for a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

That being said, if he is desperate to go home, there's not much we can do if he's uncontracted.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Miles apart at the moment.

 

[BPikkers]

What’s so wrong with spending a year or two in the VFL?

 

[Taylor]

What’s so wrong with spending a year or two in the VFL?

The AFL is a fickle game. They are paid on their standing and careers are short.

If you don't get exposure at the top level you run the risk of your coach getting sacked, a new football manger joining the club and suddenly the plan to play you in the VFL for a year or so is forgotten and you're considered dead weight.

Players don't have long to stamp their mark on the game, the earlier a player is drafted the more time they have but second round onwards can see their careers over after two years.

Players are there to play AFL, they get paid better when they play AFL and after a while, if you're not playing AFL then you're not much good.

If you're good enough you're playing AFL.

If you're not good enough then you'd want to be contracted until you are or you could be flicked before you get there.

Would he be offered a three year deal to play VFL? Nope. But he might be offered that to come home and play every game (would be the promise).

 

[BPikkers]

The AFL is a fickle game. They are paid on their standing and careers are short.

If you don't get exposure at the top level you run the risk of your coach getting sacked, a new football manger joining the club and suddenly the plan to play you in the VFL for a year or so is forgotten and you're considered dead weight.

Players don't have long to stamp their mark on the game, the earlier a player is drafted the more time they have but second round onwards can see their careers over after two years.

Players are there to play AFL, they get paid better when they play AFL and after a while, if you're not playing AFL then you're not much good.

If you're good enough you're playing AFL.

If you're not good enough then you'd want to be contracted until you are or you could be flicked before you get there.

Would he be offered a three year deal to play VFL? Nope. But he might be offered that to come home and play every game (would be the promise).

Well when Malthouse was coaching Collingwood, rarely did he play our first round picks in the first year. He made them spend a year in the VFL before they were considered for selection. Didn’t do Pendlebury, Ben Reid etc any harm. Dangerfield spent almost a year playing seconds (that is year 2 after he was recruited) before he was selected in the last couple of games of the season.

So, I think the issue more than anything is the pressure the clubs feel by not playing their early draft picks right away.

I wouldn’t say any of the top 5 of the 2017 draft look ready to properly contribute in the AFL. Apart from maybe 1 good game hear and there, if they weren’t such high picks they wouldn’t be playing because of their lack of contribution.

Doesn’t mean these guys aren’t going to be the best players in the draft. Maybe they haven’t fully physically developed like some of the later picks.

 

[Snookers]

 

[eastfreo75]

Well when Malthouse was coaching Collingwood, rarely did he play our first round picks in the first year. He made them spend a year in the VFL before they were considered for selection. Didn’t do Pendlebury, Ben Reid etc any harm. Dangerfield spent almost a year playing seconds (that is year 2 after he was recruited) before he was selected in the last couple of games of the season.

So, I think the issue more than anything is the pressure the clubs feel by not playing their early draft picks right away.

I wouldn’t say any of the top 5 of the 2017 draft look ready to properly contribute in the AFL. Apart from maybe 1 good game hear and there, if they weren’t such high picks they wouldn’t be playing because of their lack of contribution.

Doesn’t mean these guys aren’t going to be the best players in the draft. Maybe they haven’t fully physically developed like some of the later picks.

Dangerfield choose to stay in Victoria to complete his year 12 and still played 2 games. The first year in Adelaide he played 21 games.
Pendlebury had glandular fever and still played 11 games in his first year.
Thomas played 16 games.

 

[Paracleet]

You could do a find and replace on Bolton for Balic and then paste this thread onto our 2017 board. Live with it Richmond people, if he leaves you will be lucky to get a pick in the top 40 without some demonstrable good form at top level over the rest of this year.

 

[Toadvine]

You could do a find and replace on Bolton for Balic and then paste this thread onto our 2017 board. Live with it Richmond people, if he leaves you will be lucky to get a pick in the top 40 without some demonstrable good form at top level over the rest of this year.

They are completely different players. A dime a dozen, injury prone mid with no outstanding attribute Vs a very young, quick (top 3 fastest in the AFL according to stats) with x-factor and goal sense. WCE gave up pick 25 to draft a 21 year old Liam Ryan. That's the kind of potential Shai has to change a teams entire forward line once he has had time to develop.

 

[Paracleet]

They are completely different players. A dime a dozen, injury prone mid with no outstanding attribute Vs a very young, quick (top 3 fastest in the AFL according to stats) with x-factor and goal sense. WCE gave up pick 25 to draft a 21 year old Liam Ryan. That's the kind of potential Shai has to change a teams entire forward line once he has had time to develop.

Copy and paste this one too. Can't you see this is because you want to it to be true. Players coming out of their first contact demanding a trade, particularly to a 'home' state, are vastly devalued if they haven't got good exposed form and barely retain value even if the are managing solid games. There are literally dozens of examples and I'd be pretty confident there is not a single example to the contrary.