Should adelaide drop lever for the gf?

[Racing line]

What mechanisms are you even talking about? What can Adelaide do if Lever wants to go to Melbourne? The only thing that would keep him here is more money which would jeopardise the plans made by our list managers. The well being of the club is more important than the needs of one player.

As you said, player retention hasn't effected our on-field performance, so why would we be afraid to lose Jake Lever anyway? We will find a replacement.

Maybe mechanisms was the wrong word. Initiatives? Either way, if the salary cap is gonna hurt you its gonna hurt you. All things being equal players from Vic want to go home more than the other way round. Short of moving Adelaide to Melb you'll seemingly always bleed Vic talent back.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Maybe mechanisms was the wrong word. Initiatives? Either way, if the salary cap is gonna hurt you its gonna hurt you. All things being equal players from Vic want to go home more than the other way round. Short of moving Adelaide to Melb you'll seemingly always bleed Vic talent back.

We retain the vast majority of our Victorian players so we're hardly "bleeding Vic talent". Instead of using stupid buzzwords why don't you tell me what Adelaide can do to retain Lever which doesn't include driving a dump truck of cash up to his house. If you can't just shutup about it already.

 

[Bokonon_]

I appreciate your very measured response. I was prepared to move on and let it go until I saw the blatant hypocrisy from OutofTownCrow which needed to be callled out.

Objectively from the posts in this thread, I see no hypocracy. It's hardly left field to suggest a Port poster might be inclined to a negative view.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

doing that would make sure lever would try to burn adelaide as hard as possible.

best to make everything civil. he just wants to go home its a reasonable request

 

[pirate bob]

A few things I'll pick you up on. 70K members yes, perhaps the most passionate of ones join forums. I saw passion at the game and perhaps in amongst where I sat some of the culprits are posters here. But who knows, I do know that social media as a whole not just this forum is littered with the same anti Dangerfield rehtoric which seems to mirror itself everywhere. I'm sure the Dangerfield illogical hatred isn't just confined to bigfooty and a bunch of boofheads in the western stand.

You are of course right that some of the posters here are extremely passionate. A lot of the Adelaide based posters regularly attend games. Most, from what I've seen wouldn't in any way shape or form condone poor behaviour. A lot of the people posting go to games with their parents, partners and children.

Mate I'm not unhappy that people disagree with me. I am bewildered that my views are dismissed because people can't be rational and take the rose (or in this case tri) coloured glasses off. Is it that unreasonable to think I could have a rational conversation with people? Obviously not in the heat of the moment at a game, but I'm talking about something like an internet forum which is basically a low pressure informal medium allowing anonymity of the respondents. Surely that would promote and allow more rational dialogue to prevail? You're a perfect example of that hapenning and I commend you on that.

As for the pact that's fine I accept its true. My point wasn't actually disputing it otherwise my premise that judgment of Dangerfield based on the pact would be redundant. What should Danger have done when he was already leaving at the start of the year? No one wants to answer that. He couldn't say anything as the rules don't allow for players announcing their defection. But what would it.have meant to the playing group if Danger hadn't agreed? I get the pact thing and it does have some nobility to it but really it doesn't allow any scope for differing circumstances and that's the danger of group think type initiatives. They can promote as much division as they do unity.

You've answered your own question/s possibly without realising it. You are trying to understand and rationalise why a group of people are behaving in a certain manner. Yet for each person the reasons are largely emotive and possibly slightly different. It is also entirely possible a lot of people don't even really completely understand how they feel.

And finally, just on Leigh Matthews, he's paid to share an opinion not have an opinion. Without trying to knit pick the semantics, there's a critical difference. He shared his opinion, the one he formed in his own mind. You lot thought I was being a one eyed idiot and was shouted down for being one yet someone who would have no vested interest in anything Geelong came out and said my exaxt thoughts. Everyone has different opinions but you lot acted as though I was literally making seeing s**t that didn't happen because I was a lunatic. Thanks for vindicating me Leigh.

Without getting into a long winded discussion, it probably wasn't just the content of your posts but also the timing.

As an example, we had another chap constantly posting long and repetitively on merits a specific trade for a large section of the week. By Thursday people were getting sick of him and sick of his posts. They were focussed on the Friday night game and the potential consequences, not some random trade that was a fun time filler a few weeks earlier. Another example was bloke who supported Sydney and kept coming onto our board stirring up discussion about the quality of umpiring among other things 2 days after we had lost to them. What was worse was that he was going back to his own board and bragging about it.

To be honest, your timing for having those types of conversations wasn't good. No real sense of the "mood" of the board. Sometimes its best to stay away from opposition boards after games, or keep commenting to an absolute minimum. Everyone at some point in their life has had to take 1 on the chin, say congratulations to the winner and move on.

 

[baldandbroke]

I appreciate your very measured response. I was prepared to move on and let it go until I saw the blatant hypocrisy from OutofTownCrow which needed to be callled out.

What hypocrisy exactly? Again are you confused by the meaning of that word?

I made a post alluding to the fact that a post asking if the Crows should not play Lever (an All-Australian squad member) in the GF because he is a strong chance of leaving at the end of the year ... was made by a Power supporter. Shock Horror, what a surprise.

How is that at all hypocritical? Hypocritical in what sense?

Seriously?

 

[Hans McGregor]

Fine by me.

 

[Badesumofu]

Its not about looking to the future, its about putting a stop to the revolving door culture that sees star players walk out every year

Well it would certainly help with that in that it would prevent players from wanting to walk *in* the door at the Crows. But actually if you want to keep players at your club you need to focus more on the not treating them like s**t side of things.

As mentioned by others, Hawthorn 100% knew Buddy was playing his last game for the club in 2103 GF and had spent the year planning accordingly. But to actively harm your own chances of winning a flag just to spite a player who wants some say in where they work and live is actually insane.

 

[HairyO]

Starburns_ did you put the mod seal approval on this fred cos it is s**t as.

 

[Racing line]

We retain the vast majority of our Victorian players so we're hardly "bleeding Vic talent". Instead of using stupid buzzwords why don't you tell me what Adelaide can do to retain Lever which doesn't include driving a dump truck of cash up to his house. If you can't just shutup about it already.

Stop getting precious would ya! Stupid buzzwords you reckon? Whatever champ. Obviously since the vast majority of your players are Victorian because SA hasn't developed a lot of good talent since the 90s it means you're going to have a few leave. What are you gonna do to stop it? I dunno...people paid a lot more than me are at your club to figure that stuff out. Maybe there's issues with the culture. Good clubs like Geelong and (as much as I hate them) Hawthorn have their players take paycuts.

Perhaps Adelaide the city is the problem? From my short stay it was a nice place but perhaps it might get boring after a while and the incessant fishbowl environment with the media might turn a lot.of them off. Even though Melbourne is footy central theres a lot more clubs so the media's focus isn't just on 2 teams. It's a bit easier to fly under the radar. But it's something you need to get right because you won't always be able to pull the trigger and get equal talent time and again.

 

[Racing line]

What hypocrisy exactly? Again are you confused by the meaning of that word?

I made a post alluding to the fact that a post asking if the Crows should not play Lever (an All-Australian squad member) in the GF because he is a strong chance of leaving at the end of the year ... was made by a Power supporter. Shock Horror, what a surprise.

How is that at all hypocritical? Hypocritical in what sense?

Seriously?

You were casting aspersions to discredit the poster. The poster in question is a Port supporter and if you allude to some sort of quesntionable credibility then you don't even need to address his argument. You're implying that he's not even stupid, he's just trolling because he's a Port supporter.

Same deal when I came on your board and was hounded down by your mob when I was critical some of the crowd behaviour. I was hounded down about coming on when there's 70k members and implying that all Crow supporters are like that. Fine. I didn't mean to imply that anyway, but it is a convenient strategy to subvert negative heat on something. I wasn't expecting you guys on the Crows board to apologise a la K Rudd to the stolen generation...but the point still stands.

If you cast type a Port supporter as a troll or an idiot, don't get defensive when someone ways crows supporters acted like dickheads by throwing your hands in the air and getting indignant saying "not us". The Port supporter is an individual person, an individual in a collective of however many 1000 supporters they have. Did it occur to you that maybe those views are his and solely his and have nothing to do with Port? Just as I did consider every crow supporter is an individual and never said you were all bad.

And your joke wasn't funny either. I don't have a handbag hence my missus couldn't hand it back to me. Stay lame champ.

 

[Racing line]

You are of course right that some of the posters here are extremely passionate. A lot of the Adelaide based posters regularly attend games. Most, from what I've seen wouldn't in any way shape or form condone poor behaviour. A lot of the people posting go to games with their parents, partners and children.


You've answered your own question/s possibly without realising it. You are trying to understand and rationalise why a group of people are behaving in a certain manner. Yet for each person the reasons are largely emotive and possibly slightly different. It is also entirely possible a lot of people don't even really completely understand how they feel.


Without getting into a long winded discussion, it probably wasn't just the content of your posts but also the timing.

As an example, we had another chap constantly posting long and repetitively on merits a specific trade for a large section of the week. By Thursday people were getting sick of him and sick of his posts. They were focussed on the Friday night game and the potential consequences, not some random trade that was a fun time filler a few weeks earlier. Another example was bloke who supported Sydney and kept coming onto our board stirring up discussion about the quality of umpiring among other things 2 days after we had lost to them. What was worse was that he was going back to his own board and bragging about it.

To be honest, your timing for having those types of conversations wasn't good. No real sense of the "mood" of the board. Sometimes its best to stay away from opposition boards after games, or keep commenting to an absolute minimum. Everyone at some point in their life has had to take 1 on the chin, say congratulations to the winner and move on.

That's all fair and reasonable. Thank you very much for the rational dialogue.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Yes, yes they should.

 

[Blackas87]

Lever gets dropped and decides he wants to go to the pre season draft.

 

[swoop42]

I assume Adelaide wish to win the premiership?

If so Lever plays because he makes them a better team.

Simple.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Is it too simplistic to say that Lever playing in a premiership side enhances the likelihood he will stay?

 

[threesixpio]

It's been widely reported that jake lever is off at the conclusion of this season. Why then, should adelaide give him the honour of playing in the grand final and potentially winning a premiership? He was ordinary against geelong and has one foot out the door already so I don't see why they would keep him. Richmond have a mosquito fleet that could be covered by the other adelaide defenders.

Goodness me. You play your best team

/thread

 

[baldandbroke]

You were casting aspersions to discredit the poster. The poster in question is a Port supporter and if you allude to some sort of quesntionable credibility then you don't even need to address his argument. You're implying that he's not even stupid, he's just trolling because he's a Port supporter.

Same deal when I came on your board and was hounded down by your mob when I was critical some of the crowd behaviour. I was hounded down about coming on when there's 70k members and implying that all Crow supporters are like that. Fine. I didn't mean to imply that anyway, but it is a convenient strategy to subvert negative heat on something. I wasn't expecting you guys on the Crows board to apologise a la K Rudd to the stolen generation...but the point still stands.

If you cast type a Port supporter as a troll or an idiot, don't get defensive when someone ways crows supporters acted like dickheads by throwing your hands in the air and getting indignant saying "not us". The Port supporter is an individual person, an individual in a collective of however many 1000 supporters they have. Did it occur to you that maybe those views are his and solely his and have nothing to do with Port? Just as I did consider every crow supporter is an individual and never said you were all bad.

And your joke wasn't funny either. I don't have a handbag hence my missus couldn't hand it back to me. Stay lame champ.

So I wasn't being hypocritical then, you just have some moral outrage you want to get out?

If you don't understand my post - or it's context - then that is your issue not mine.

You are way off base here, way off base. Try and take your "I'm offended" attitude to somewhere less scary, and save us all the hassle of wading through your over-thought under-delivered swathes of text.

 

[Racing line]

Instead of calling me precious, why don't you actually engage your brain before opening your mouth.

You we're the one criticising the Crows for not having "mechanisms" and "initiatives" for player retention and when I asked you to explain specifically what you we're talking about, you had no answers. Now you come back and say we should make our players take a pay cut which is the whole reason Lever wants to go in the first place. Have you ever considered that the Crows don't think Lever is worth big money at this stage of his career? I'd prefer to back in our list managers who have proven themselves time and time again over some random on Bigfooty.

Culture is just another vague buzzword which gets used all too often around here. Firstly define what you mean when you say culture in regards to a footy club. Secondly can you provide any proof that the Crows have a poor culture? I've never heard any of our former players criticise the club on those grounds. Furthermore if what the Cats produced on Friday night is the result of a great culture I don't want a bar of it anyway.

I agree about Adelaide being a fishbowl but there's nothing the Crows can do about that. I don't think it's a huge factor anyway. Geelong is every bit as much of a fishbowl and it doesn't stop players from going there. I certainly wouldn't want the club to waste time on weak campaigners like Tippett who can't handle a bit of pressure. He's the only player we've lost who specifically had an issue with the Adelaide fishbowl and good riddance to him. He's not missed by anybody.

I didn't say you don't have any player retention initiatives I said you butchered them. Obviously this is the case or you wouldn't bleed players. Oops there's that buzzword again! Bleed. But if you keep making me repeat myself we just keep going round in circles. I have no answers for what your player retention initiatives are because I obviously dont know them I don't work for the Adelaide Football Club! What I was doing was speculating. Every club would have them but i wouldn't know for certain the specifics of them.

As for the pay cut thing...Wow dude, you really didn't read what I said. Go back and have a proper look. I never said you should make Lever take a pay cut. I said clubs with good culture has players that take pay cuts. That was intended to mean voluntarily! Both Geelong and Hawthorn have players that did it. Culture is defined within an organisation as having an alignment of values and beliefs. If the players value the success of the organisation over money they earn then they stay. I never said anything about Adelaide having a poor culture so I don't have an example. I just suggested it's perhaps not strong enough to promote all players taking pay cuts.

Nice try having a dig at my club and conflating a poor prelim loss with poor culture. That's intellectually dishonest. And you tell me to engage my brain? Pot kettle black dude...we were beaten on the day by a better team. It happens. Strong culture doesn't prevent poor performances from ever occuring, strong culture ensures that the rot doesn't set in and the club bounces back. So next time you wanna have a crack at my club, the club that has won 3 flags in the last 10 years and made 8 out of the last 11 prelims...make sure your club wins the flag this Saturday...and another 2 after that!

 

[baldandbroke]

Is it too simplistic to say that Lever playing in a premiership side enhances the likelihood he will stay?

Yeah - too simplistic unfortunately. He is going back to Victoria. I reckon both he and Charlie Cameron have made peace with the club ... and their team-mates are just asking them to put in everything they've got for one last game.

Cameron will take some prying out to get "home", but as per usual I'd expect us to get a deal done.

Lever will go to a Vic team of his choice, and whomever it is they will happily pay a pretty penny for him.

All good, we are learning how this new system of player movement works and improving our list as we go

Lever we got for pick 14.
Cameron was a Rookie.

Both players have contributed to our success so far in 2017, and we will make "a trade profit" from both after the trade period is done.

 

[Racing line]

So I wasn't being hypocritical then, you just have some moral outrage you want to get out?

If you don't understand my post - or it's context - then that is your issue not mine.

You are way off base here, way off base. Try and take your "I'm offended" attitude to somewhere less scary, and save us all the hassle of wading through your over-thought under-delivered swathes of text.

Yeah man...that's it...I'm "morally outraged" and I'm "offended".

 

[baldandbroke]

So next time you wanna have a crack at my club, the club that has won 3 flags in the last 10 years and made 8 out of the last 11 prelims...make sure your club wins the flag this Saturday...and another 2 after that!

If the AFC win the flag on the weekend, then both Geelong and Adelaide would have 3 flags in the AFL.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Adelaide should definitely drop Lever.
While their at it they should drop Sloane, Betts and Walker.

 

[SloaneysDanger]

Ummmmmm no? I want us to actually win a GF. Right now I give no shits about 2018.

 

[Racing line]

If the AFC win the flag on the weekend, then both Geelong and Adelaide would have 3 flags in the AFL.

OMFG! I know that I can count. That wasn't my point. I was talking about receently, as in the last 10 years as that's whats relevant to culture currently. 2 flags won 20 years ago is not relevant to the culture of today. Besides that most of your team was from SA back then and now most are from Vic.