Should WA secede from Australia?

[Juddism]

Happy living in Melbourne so its academic & your comments cried out .... imagine the Aus economy without China.

Imagine the Chinese boom without Australian steel...we sell s**t they want, they sell s**t we want! That’s all there is to it.

Me, I’m thinking of moving back to the West. This place has become a dump.

 

[Kwality]

Imagine the Chinese boom without Australian steel...we sell sh*t they want, they sell sh*t we want! That’s all there is to it.

Me, I’m thinking of moving back to the West. This place has become a dump.

Serious question, do we export steel to China ?

 

[Juddism]

Serious question, do we export steel to China ?

Not that I know...but you know, the ore all goes there.

 

[Kwality]

Not that I know...but you know, the ore all goes there.

Imagine if we did have a steel industry, did process the stuff & export steel to China.

IF Hancock & Bjelke Petersen plans became reality with an east west railway across norther Australia?

Take Lithium, Lynas built a plant in Malaysia not Australia .... so many reasons why we cant do things as Lang & Joh knew.

 

[Run n Spread]

I believe the governments we get are the governments we deserve.....which attests that we have good reason to have little faith in the public on a long term and consistent basis.

That's why I believe in the dilution and demarcation of government power

Agree with that. There are some things a government should not be legisalting on. It should be iron clad. Now where you draw the boundary line on that is a matter for debate.

But as per your previous post I don't see how you eradicate government totally. Even something like language, different histories, even climates and natural resources means different sovereign states have different needs. On this point and only this I can see why the states have become so parochial. Australia is massive and has different conditions and needs all around. Amazing we are one country considering. But we are and given our population it is not practical and division of government it is over kill to govern further.

Or maybe I'm jealous because you lot are in paradise (if on the coast) and we're stuck in ******* North Korea.

 

[HairyO]

Imagine if we did have a steel industry, did process the stuff & export steel to China.

IF Hancock & Bjelke Petersen plans became reality with an east west railway across norther Australia?

Take Lithium, Lynas built a plant in Malaysia not Australia .... so many reasons why we cant do things as Lang & Joh knew.

China wouldnt want our steel. We cost 5 times as much as they do across the board. All they want is our raw materials and then they will manufacture cheaply.

 

[Leeda]

and back on topic... no I kind of like the wAcas.. and fre..o.. and quokkas.. hey that .. no I was going to say something else'''

 

[Power Raid]

Imagine if we did have a steel industry, did process the stuff & export steel to China.

IF Hancock & Bjelke Petersen plans became reality with an east west railway across norther Australia?

Take Lithium, Lynas built a plant in Malaysia not Australia .... so many reasons why we cant do things as Lang & Joh knew.

it's not too far away before we have a steel industry. hydrogen from brackish water is not too far away. Hydrogen will replace met coal, thus no reason for processing in china. It also means China may use their own low grade iron ore, rather than buying ours.

 

[Admiral Byng]

it's not too far away before we have a steel industry. hydrogen from brackish water is not too far away. Hydrogen will replace met coal, thus no reason for processing in china. It also means China may use their own low grade iron ore, rather than buying ours.

Direct reduction is where it's at. Like you say, it will reduce the need for met coal. If that happens there is going to be mass unemployment in QLD and NSW.... no met coal, no thermal coal... what have they got left?

 

[Power Raid]

Direct reduction is where it's at. Like you say, it will reduce the need for met coal. If that happens there is going to be mass unemployment in QLD and NSW.... no met coal, no thermal coal... what have they got left?

what's left you ask.................just look at Adelaide

After mining, manufacturing, refining and most industry is killed off, you're left with Adelaide. A place that survives of the teet of the government, a place where the youth leave and the old wait to die. Every opportunity has a thousand snouts in the trough, leading to corruption (two of the world's most expensive building built in the history of man are in Adelaide attests to this) further killing off the economy. You have PhD baristas and uber drivers with masters degrees.

If you want to know how bad Adelaide got, they banned plastic bags under the guise of the environment, as too many people were committing suicide from asphyxiation (this may not be true)......but I can confirm my beloved home town is a failed state.

 

[Admiral Byng]

what's left you ask.................just look at Adelaide

After mining, manufacturing, refining and most industry is killed off, you're left with Adelaide. A place that survives of the teet of the government, a place where the youth leave and the old wait to die. Every opportunity has a thousand snouts in the trough, leading to corruption (two of the world's most expensive building built in the history of man are in Adelaide attests to this) further killing off the economy. You have PhD baristas and uber drivers with masters degrees.

If you want to know how bad Adelaide got, they banned plastic bags under the guise of the environment, as too many people were committing suicide from asphyxiation (this may not be true)......but I can confirm my beloved home town is a failed state.

Sounds a bit bleak.

 

[Power Raid]

Sounds a bit bleak.

Adelaide is bleak

the bleakness isn't the lack of opportunity but a culture where opportunity shifts from long term value add to a short term grab. Coming to WA in the 90s, I couldn't believe the positive outlook and energetic culture. No other place in Australia has this to the same degree.


There is no doubt all of Australia will need to reform and reinvigorate their economies as the global economies and situations change. Some of the challenges ahead for resources:
- metallurgical coal will be replaced by hydrogen
- hydrogen must be consumed where it is produced as it doesn't travel well
- petrol stations may in the future produce hydrogen from ground water immediately beneath their stations or from the tap (this is a game changer for remote localities)
- no metallurgical coal will mean no thermal coal given most investment banking mandates unless coal becomes an input for industry such as the chemical or agriculture industry

- iron ore grades are dropping meaning we will see a rise of magnetite
- magnetite is energy hungry and available globally
- so who has a iron ore industry in the future......those with the cheapest power and a steel plant next door

- bauxite and aluminium have a bleak future in Oz as they need heat and energy
- hydro seems to be the winning solution for cheap energy but even hydro will face major environmental questions in the future



- water is a major concern as we will see competing need for fresh water for agriculture, hydrogen production and domestic use
- unless we crack the hydrogen from brackish water we have a very inefficient sea water to fresh water (energy), to hydrogen (energy), to liquefy (minus 250 degrees - energy)



but what is certain, without a vibrant primary industry we don't have a vibrant service industry. Adding to the challenge in primary industry is becoming a big company game with farms becoming larger and larger just to remain profitable, mining becoming automated and the red and green tape becoming so time consuming and expensive. To commission a mine you are looking at 2 to 3 years of studies and permits and $20m to $100m.


What I fear the most is all of Australia becoming like Adelaide.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

it's not too far away before we have a steel industry. hydrogen from brackish water is not too far away. Hydrogen will replace met coal, thus no reason for processing in china. It also means China may use their own low grade iron ore, rather than buying ours.

There are very high quality grade deposits in Africa. China have their fingers in a lot of pies there. It wouldn't surprise if they're mining their own over there in a decade or so.

 

[Power Raid]

There are very high quality grade deposits in Africa. China have their fingers in a lot of pies there. It wouldn't surprise if they're mining their own over there in a decade or so.

yep

only a nation with a decent military would spend $14B on a rail there

 

[Scotland]

Take Lithium, Lynas built a plant in Malaysia not Australia .... so many reasons why we cant do things as Lang & Joh knew.

Rare earths, not lithium. Also shifting back to Australia now.

There are a couple of lithium operations in the Pilbara now, but it's not as easy as just looking around at all the red dirt for red dirt and digging it up.

 

[Kwality]

Rare earths, not lithium. Also shifting back to Australia now.

There are a couple of lithium operations in the Pilbara now, but it's not as easy as just looking around at all the red dirt for red dirt and digging it up.

Point taken. Aus should try harder to get the processing done locally.

 

[Power Raid]

Point taken. Aus should try harder to get the processing done locally.

I'd be surprised if we ever have rare earths processed in Oz other than perhaps a concentrate.

The environmental damage is too high, thus dominated by jurisdictions that can just dump it into water ways as this is a price competitive advantage.

 

[Kwality]

I'd be surprised if we ever have rare earths processed in Oz other than perhaps a concentrate.

The environmental damage is too high, thus dominated by jurisdictions that can just dump it into water ways as this is a price competitive advantage.

Happy to acknowledge my ignorance of what processing consists of, but for example, have followed Lynas Corporation & its travails with its refinery in Malaysia & rue our inability to process (generic) in Aus when the US Government are funding their plant in the USA.
Its not the fine detail of Lynas that concerns me, its our failure (Aus) to process more generally.

 

[Power Raid]

Happy to acknowledge my ignorance of what processing consists of, but for example, have followed Lynas Corporation & its travails with its refinery in Malaysia & rue our inability to process (generic) in Aus when the US Government are funding their plant in the USA.
Its not the fine detail of Lynas that concerns me, its our failure (Aus) to process more generally.

Watch this space as recent events has changed policies here in Aus, the EU and had already changed in the US. Specifically war strategy has overtaken needs of the environment and other factors. The degree to which this occurs in each jurisdiction is yet to be fully understood but these are the themes:

- deglobalisation - security of supply has been undermined by Covid. A greater sourcing of materials within local markets will rise in the EU, US and China........but what does that mean for Aus materials?
- security of supply - Covid and Counter Party Risk is in the forefront of everyones mind. How can you buy gas from Putin given his assassinations? The result is the Netherlands announcing investment in nuclear, germany reassessing russian gas and deciding not to bribe the US to secure their support on Russian embargo
- environmental permits - I dare say restrictions regarding rare earths and lithium will be reduced to reduce China dominance of the sector. There was a time when many nations had solar panels but now China dominates. Why? They can expose workers and local communities to carcinogenic chemicals, to reduce costs and get away with it. The world did nothing and China dominated I feel the world has learnt a lesson and will not make the same mistake on rare earths.
- strategic inventories - fuel storage and strategic minerals supplies will be created here in Oz and elsewhere




oh and I think lynas will have their radioactive waste from the rare earths processed at Olympic Dam or at one of WAs to be uranium mines. They've been working the phones looking for a solution.

 

[Rasha]

I wonder if WA will look to secede now that the coronavirus is spreading like the plague once again.

 

[utility]

Secession is unlikely without a referendum as the Commonwealth is indissoluble.

 

[DaRick]

With the bottom falling out of iron ore prices, it would seem particularly ill-advised.

(But then it always is.)

 

[Kwality]

I wonder if WA will look to secede now that the coronavirus is spreading like the plague once again.

I love the WA Premier playing hard ball with Gil.

 

[Power Raid]

I wonder if WA will look to secede now that the coronavirus is spreading like the plague once again.

Secession is unlikely without a referendum as the Commonwealth is indissoluble.

indissoluble? what rubbish

We West Australians will take the GF, secede and never give it back. We'll then invade the east and shift Canberra to Kalgoorlie.

 

[utility]

indissoluble? what rubbish

We West Australians will take the GF, secede and never give it back. We'll then invade the east and shift Canberra to Kalgoorlie.

It's a deal so as long as you take Daniel Andrews for a third rounder.