Should we be concerned??

[Crow-mo]

I would say Mckernan has done more than enough this pre season too. Are we really any different from last year in terms of depth?

if we aren't, last season was a wasted development year.

I'm not saying its true, but it would be a very, very bad thing if it were.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

He also made the point that in general our younger players have struggled and we don't have the depth that we had hoped to have. in particular he was disappointed with the defensive efforts of our younger players.

He said that we need our more senior players back in the team to make the game plan work, and that we would be getting 3 of them back for the Carlton game - Maric and Vince were 2 of them, and I think Bock was the 3rd.

This is Neil Craig in a nutshell.

We have a highly structured, complicated game plan. And young players struggle to get their head around it. I wonder how long it takes a young player to be able to instinctively remember all the defensive set ups plus at the same time actually be able to play the game (get a kick or two and win some contested footy).

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

IMO the big disappointment has been the performance of those younger players not in the regular 22 and the little impact they have had when given a chance, Cook, Sloane and Petrenko excluded. One thing that has struck me like a ton of bricks is that we have over drafted on talls and as a result we are a young mid or two short of where we should be IMO.

To have the type of year that we have all hoped for, we must have a very injury free year or we will tend to struggle IMO.

I think the club has used the correct strategy. With compromised drafts in the next couple of years, talls will be like diamonds so its good that we stocked up when we could. However, in at least the next 3 years, midfielders must be a priority.

IMO, with a few exceptions, you generally need at least 3 top tier midfielders to win a premiership. We currently have one in Thomson. If Bernie has another year like the last then he will be a top tier midfielder. We really need someone else to step up in the next few years. The field of possibilities is a bit thin at this stage, with only Dangerfield and McKay looking like possible propects. The likes of Cook, Sloane could be handy players but I doubt top flight midfielders. The injuries to Otten and Martin are really disappotining as we needed to get time in the midfield into their young legs so we could get a better idea of exactly what we have got.

 

[LC40]

Craig was on telly tonight and made the point that we are a long way off of where we want to be.

He also made the point that in general our younger players have struggled and we don't have the depth that we had hoped to have. in particular he was disappointed with the defensive efforts of our younger players.

He said that we need our more senior players back in the team to make the game plan work, and that we would be getting 3 of them back for the Carlton game - Maric and Vince were 2 of them, and I think Bock was the 3rd.

IMO the big disappointment has been the performance of those younger players not in the regular 22 and the little impact they have had when given a chance, Cook, Sloane and Petrenko excluded. One thing that has struck me like a ton of bricks is that we have over drafted on talls and as a result we are a young mid or two short of where we should be IMO.

To have the type of year that we have all hoped for, we must have a very injury free year or we will tend to struggle IMO.

This is what concerns me most of all with the Crows, of course senior players will improve the game plan but we haven't really tested a lot of our inexperienced players that have been on the list for two or three years.

How can playing a few games in a NAB game "be given a chance".

The top draft picks sometimes make the transition quickly but very few new player can expect to shine instantly in the AFL...the reality is that most need about 50 games to migrate from being solid contributors to week in week out dependable players.

This is at minimum two seasons... Douglas,Tippett and Knights are now showing the benefits of this grounding.

Ottens was an exception but even a guy like Dangerfield has only shown glimpses of what he can do.
If posters are completely honest he is nowhere near the player some make him out to be. He has speed and goes and in like a Kamikaze with no fear for his own wellbeing but he hasn't yet strung together those consistent dominating performances he will undoubtedly produce in years to come.
He is learning his trade it takes time.

How are we going to get this much needed game time into the new lads if it is the senior players that will carry the load.

Craigy is a superb coach but he is a stubborn man who has set ideas and has demonstrated in the past that he will not play youngsters in place of senior players unless they are performing.
Armstrong,Walker, McKernan,Cook,Davis,Young,Sloane really need a solid run of games to find their feet and show us what they got.
I really hope our team is patient enough to carry a few young players who are learning their trade.

I agree with you on our drafting of talls or our non drafting of mid fielders.
Surely out of last years main draft we could have found one midfielder.

Realistically we are not overly deep in this department and although in next years compromised draft quality talls are going to be hard to find surely the same logic applies equally in finding quality smalls.

Not all is doom and gloom, Craigy is correct it is our system that sucks at the moment for we are very inefficient,not using the corridor or running in numbers and our ball movement is slow. Our tendency for switching also needs to be toned down as it is so predictable.

The last two trials have also been played in awful conditions.

Halfway through last season we adopted a more attacking style and it paid some dividends I'm positive our game style will get corrected no matter who they field.

 

[noddy]

This is what concerns me most of all with the Crows, of course senior players will improve the game plan but we haven't really tested a lot of our inexperienced players that have been on the list for two or three years.

How can playing a few games in a NAB game "be given a chance".

The top draft picks sometimes make the transition quickly but very few new player can expect to shine instantly in the AFL...the reality is that most need about 50 games to migrate from being solid contributors to week in week out dependable players.

This is at minimum two seasons... Douglas,Tippett and Knights are now showing the benefits of this grounding.

Ottens was an exception but even a guy like Dangerfield has only shown glimpses of what he can do.
If posters are completely honest he is nowhere near the player some make him out to be. He has speed and goes and in like a Kamikaze with no fear for his own wellbeing but he hasn't yet strung together those consistent dominating performances he will undoubtedly produce in years to come.
He is learning his trade it takes time.

How are we going to get this much needed game time into the new lads if it is the senior players that will carry the load.

Craigy is a superb coach but he is a stubborn man who has set ideas and has demonstrated in the past that he will not play youngsters in place of senior players unless they are performing.
Armstrong,Walker, McKernan,Cook,Davis,Young,Sloane really need a solid run of games to find their feet and show us what they got.
I really hope our team is patient enough to carry a few young players who are learning their trade.

I agree with you on our drafting of talls or our non drafting of mid fielders.
Surely out of last years main draft we could have found one midfielder.

Realistically we are not overly deep in this department and although in next years compromised draft quality talls are going to be hard to find surely the same logic applies equally in finding quality smalls.

Not all is doom and gloom, Craigy is correct it is our system that sucks at the moment for we are very inefficient,not using the corridor or running in numbers and our ball movement is slow. Our tendency for switching also needs to be toned down as it is so predictable.

The last two trials have also been played in awful conditions.

Halfway through last season we adopted a more attacking style and it paid some dividends I'm positive our game style will get corrected no matter who they field.

Top post

Some youngsters take longer than others to develop & at this stage i'm not to disappointed other than the opening game against PA where we showed little or no interest & intensity at all.

 

[Bicks]

Well there you go, even Craigy is now admitting to being more than a "tad" CONCERNED with our current form and the "development" of our younger players.....so much for those supporters on here going with the mantra "It's only the NAB Cup bulltish", good form isn't like a light switch, you can't just turn it on and off at will. Yes, I am more than slightly concerned with our current form, or more to the point, LACK OF GOOD FORM.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Well there you go, even Craigy is now admitting to being more than a "tad" CONCERNED with our current form and the "development" of our younger players.....so much for those supporters on here going with the mantra "It's only the NAB Cup bulltish", good form isn't like a light switch, you can't just turn it on and off at will. Yes, I am more than slightly concerned with our current form, or more to the point, LACK OF GOOD FORM.

The poor pre-season form wouldn't worry me that much if we had a healthy list. But the fact we are showing average form and we will be going into round 1 with so many injured players or players who have had injury interrupted pre-seaons is really concerning.

 

[Crow-mo]

What does worry me - and its only pre-season, so lots might change - is that we've known for a while we lack the real tier 1 game breaking midfielders comin through. that we're a little light on for absolute class in the middle.

the answer given was always that with the high rotations of modern midfields, having a strong brigade was as important as having superstars at the front i.e. That habing depth through no.5 & 6 in your rotation was as important as who your no.1 guy was. And there is obviously some truth in this.

However what we're seeing is that potentially we lack the depth we always assumed we had - and if we don't have real depth, and we don't have front line class - what do we have? That's concerning!!

 

[El_Scorcho]

From an outside perspective, you know Craigy will get you up and into the finals. Whether that's top 4 or just outside might depend on how you battle through this injury crisis, but you'll win enough games to be around the mark for sure.

Ideally, these injured guys will start to filter back into your side and by finals time, you'll have a few games under your belt at full strength. The main thing will be to get the guys who are dead set first 18ers fully fit and match fit before the latter stages of the season. Whether that means giving them time in the SANFL or whatever, it needs to happen.

Having 8 weeks or so taken our of your preseason is the equivalent of having a season off in terms of fitness. So getting these guys fit will be the key.

Don't worry too much about final finishing positions at the moment, you know under Craig you'll be around the mark. If you're going to have an injury crisis, it's happening at the right time of the year.

 

[Macjoe]

What does worry me - and its only pre-season, so lots might change - is that we've known for a while we lack the real tier 1 game breaking midfielders comin through. that we're a little light on for absolute class in the middle.

the answer given was always that with the high rotations of modern midfields, having a strong brigade was as important as having superstars at the front i.e. That habing depth through no.5 & 6 in your rotation was as important as who your no.1 guy was. And there is obviously some truth in this.

However what we're seeing is that potentially we lack the depth we always assumed we had - and if we don't have real depth, and we don't have front line class - what do we have? That's concerning!!

Yes, it is concerning. Thommo and Vince are the only A grade automatic starters here, then we have to look at the ones who should be impact off-the-bench players, Goody, Edwards and Macca.

It's in the midfield that we talk up potential most nowdays. We have backs, we have forwards, but apart from a very few, we only have a potential midfield.

Hope that potential is realised.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What does worry me - and its only pre-season, so lots might change - is that we've known for a while we lack the real tier 1 game breaking midfielders comin through. that we're a little light on for absolute class in the middle.

the answer given was always that with the high rotations of modern midfields, having a strong brigade was as important as having superstars at the front i.e. That habing depth through no.5 & 6 in your rotation was as important as who your no.1 guy was. And there is obviously some truth in this.

However what we're seeing is that potentially we lack the depth we always assumed we had - and if we don't have real depth, and we don't have front line class - what do we have? That's concerning!!

Spot on. I think there are four players we were expecting to develop into Tier 1 midfielders who haven't. And we instigated our Draft Talls At All Costs strategy thinking that our midfield cupboard was well stocked.

Douglas - a first round midfield selection - seems to have found his niche in the forward line.

Knights - who finds the footy more often than just about anyone on our list - seems to be more damaging across half forward.

Porplyzia - who looks at home in the traffic of the midfield - keeps copping injuries just at the time when we need him to be developing his tank.

Reilly - another first round midfield pick - seems to have stalled and is now being touted as a back up run with option.

Throw in van Berlo who is struggling with his back and that's five guys that in 2008 we could have reasonably expected to be the backbone of our 2010 midfield group.

IMO there are two crucial midfield elements that need to occur this season for us to be successful
1) we need Vince and Thompson to play 20+ matches
2) we need Dangerfield and Mackay to finish top 6 in our B&F

 

[amer]

This is getting silly now. NC will make these statements because he is a professional bloke who seeks to maximise the response and application from his playing group heading into the season. He's not going to come out and say he's happy with their progress when we're not winning everything, he will demand more of them, particularly the kids while they're pushing for spots.

The analyses and suggestions being made are a little sweeping for such an early stage of the season imo. I want to see a good block of H&A footy before venting these sorts of concerns.

 

[SydCrow]

Let's not forget Otten was supposed to be in there this year.

Vince, Danger and Mackay look like becoming class players. But they are nowhere near the level of Swan/Pendlebury/Ball or Mitchell/Sewell/Burgoyne let alone the mids of the Dogs, Cats or Saints.

 

[Macjoe]

This is getting silly now. NC will make these statements because he is a professional bloke who seeks to maximise the response and application from his playing group heading into the season. He's not going to come out and say he's happy with their progress when we're not winning everything, he will demand more of them, particularly the kids while they're pushing for spots.

The analyses and suggestions being made are a little sweeping for such an early stage of the season imo. I want to see a good block of H&A footy before venting these sorts of concerns.

Yes, of course you are right, but but the alternative is to
...
...
...
...
...
...

do nothing while we wait.

I can't stand that! Even supposition on inadequate evidence is better than do nothing while we wait.

 

[Crow-mo]

This is getting silly now. NC will make these statements because he is a professional bloke who seeks to maximise the response and application from his playing group heading into the season. He's not going to come out and say he's happy with their progress when we're not winning everything, he will demand more of them, particularly the kids while they're pushing for spots.

The analyses and suggestions being made are a little sweeping for such an early stage of the season imo. I want to see a good block of H&A footy before venting these sorts of concerns.

form can change as the season progresses, but would the depth of our list change later in the season? we either do have depth or we don't, and if we're waiting for less injuries to prove we have depth that is kinda missing the point.

 

[Vader]

Let's not forget Otten was supposed to be in there this year.

Vince, Danger and Mackay look like becoming class players. But they are nowhere near the level of Swan/Pendlebury/Ball or Mitchell/Sewell/Burgoyne let alone the mids of the Dogs, Cats or Saints.

Really?

Based on 2009, I'd rate Vince as being the equal of any of the players named and well ahead of Ball, Sewell & Burgoyne. I'd also rate Mackay as being at least the equal of Ball and possibly Burgoyne as well, though Burger is clearly the better of the two when fully fit (which he hasn't been for a while). Ball at his peak was an outstanding player. Ball in 2009/2010 is a pale shadow of his former self.

The only comparison where we lose out is Dangermouse vs Pendlebury & Sewell - and that's only because he's still establishing himself while the others have been in the system long enough to have reached their peaks. Dangermouse has the potential to be miles better than Sewell and definitely as good as Pendles.

 

[LC40]

From an outside perspective, you know Craigy will get you up and into the finals. Whether that's top 4 or just outside might depend on how you battle through this injury crisis, but you'll win enough games to be around the mark for sure.

Ideally, these injured guys will start to filter back into your side and by finals time, you'll have a few games under your belt at full strength. The main thing will be to get the guys who are dead set first 18ers fully fit and match fit before the latter stages of the season. Whether that means giving them time in the SANFL or whatever, it needs to happen.

Having 8 weeks or so taken our of your preseason is the equivalent of having a season off in terms of fitness. So getting these guys fit will be the key.

Don't worry too much about final finishing positions at the moment, you know under Craig you'll be around the mark. If you're going to have an injury crisis, it's happening at the right time of the year.

I do agree with you ThunderPower 14 in that I'm not worried about making the finals at this stage. We have the players and the attitude/fitness to make the finals. At present it is purely a lack of system which can change very quickly.
The one attribute you can concede to the Crows is that they are a very disciplined outfit who will keep adjusting their work rate until they get things right.

I do worry about our future not so much this year but the next few. They need to bite the bullet and be actually prepared to carry a few young players who will have a tendency to go in and out of a game and whose form will
vary week to week.

You can put any slant on it you want but our midfield depth is not deep.
Thompson,Vince and Edwards are top flighters and Porplyzia is a jack of all trades but then the consistency of performance wavers.

Dangerfield could have a breakout season but he really needs to step up this year to make our midfield truly potent,(I confident he will improve.)
and MacKay might even been used in the middle.

Sloane looks very good in close from the little of seen of him but he isn't going to tear the league up just yet while Cook certainly needs game time to adjust to the tempo of AFL.

I'm confident we will be fine this year in making the finals but truly hope some forward thinking decisions are taken through the course of this season to blood the next generation of players.

 

[amer]

form can change as the season progresses, but would the depth of our list change later in the season? we either do have depth or we don't, and if we're waiting for less injuries to prove we have depth that is kinda missing the point.

I'm waiting to see how these kids perform in the H&A arena before assessing what they mean for our depth.

 

[Southerntakeover]

form can change as the season progresses, but would the depth of our list change later in the season? we either do have depth or we don't, and if we're waiting for less injuries to prove we have depth that is kinda missing the point.

I dont know, surely a young player can be more ready later in the year than he is at the start?

 

[BigSledge]

This is what concerns me most of all with the Crows, of course senior players will improve the game plan but we haven't really tested a lot of our inexperienced players that have been on the list for two or three years.

How can playing a few games in a NAB game "be given a chance".

The top draft picks sometimes make the transition quickly but very few new player can expect to shine instantly in the AFL...the reality is that most need about 50 games to migrate from being solid contributors to week in week out dependable players.

This is at minimum two seasons... Douglas,Tippett and Knights are now showing the benefits of this grounding.

Ottens was an exception but even a guy like Dangerfield has only shown glimpses of what he can do.
If posters are completely honest he is nowhere near the player some make him out to be. He has speed and goes and in like a Kamikaze with no fear for his own wellbeing but he hasn't yet strung together those consistent dominating performances he will undoubtedly produce in years to come.
He is learning his trade it takes time.

How are we going to get this much needed game time into the new lads if it is the senior players that will carry the load.

Craigy is a superb coach but he is a stubborn man who has set ideas and has demonstrated in the past that he will not play youngsters in place of senior players unless they are performing.
Armstrong,Walker, McKernan,Cook,Davis,Young,Sloane really need a solid run of games to find their feet and show us what they got.
I really hope our team is patient enough to carry a few young players who are learning their trade.

I agree with you on our drafting of talls or our non drafting of mid fielders.
Surely out of last years main draft we could have found one midfielder.

Realistically we are not overly deep in this department and although in next years compromised draft quality talls are going to be hard to find surely the same logic applies equally in finding quality smalls.

Not all is doom and gloom, Craigy is correct it is our system that sucks at the moment for we are very inefficient,not using the corridor or running in numbers and our ball movement is slow. Our tendency for switching also needs to be toned down as it is so predictable.

The last two trials have also been played in awful conditions.

Halfway through last season we adopted a more attacking style and it paid some dividends I'm positive our game style will get corrected no matter who they field.

Outstanding post mate

While the injury list is worrying to say the least we are now pumping a few games into some players who wouldn't have got the chance otherwise giving them a taste at a higher speed then put them back in the SANFL when we get some players back. We have some great players coming into there prime in the next 2-3 years and should see the benefits of that soon. Walker is now in his second season of actually playing games at an AFL level so I expect him to improve a lot more towards the end of year, Danger who seems to be the great white hope of our midfield should make further improvements and hopefully Mackay can get thrown in the center a bit more.

With our early draw being favourable to say the least I hope we can ride out some these injuries and be well set up by mid season break.

 

[NTRabbit]

What does worry me - and its only pre-season, so lots might change - is that we've known for a while we lack the real tier 1 game breaking midfielders comin through. that we're a little light on for absolute class in the middle.

the answer given was always that with the high rotations of modern midfields, having a strong brigade was as important as having superstars at the front i.e. That habing depth through no.5 & 6 in your rotation was as important as who your no.1 guy was. And there is obviously some truth in this.

However what we're seeing is that potentially we lack the depth we always assumed we had - and if we don't have real depth, and we don't have front line class - what do we have? That's concerning!!

This has concerned me since last year, but mostly because I was already sceptical of the high ratings people seemed to be giving our depth, before it all unravelled a little this preseason.

 

[Crow-mo]

I dont know, surely a young player can be more ready later in the year than he is at the start?

I think if its that touch n go then we certainly lack depth.

 

[captain peanut]

gents sorry to intrude but just fishing around for info on supercoach and saw this thread

it's the pre season. i wouldn't be concerned at all. few injs now won't kill and from what i know otten is the only major 1 you guys have in that he won't be seen this year? would be very surprised if the crows aren't around the top 4 again and wouldn't be surprised to see them fighting out 4th with my mob again. i'd take more notice of the 2nd half of 2009 than a few disjointed practice match efforts where the team is mixed and matched and new ideas tried and let's face it the intensity is not quite there

cheers

 

[moogerfooger]

The squad in general seems to have that lethargic flatness to it that is typical of sides enduring heavy training loads. For that reason I think it's wise not to read too much into our preseason form.

We have a relatively soft draw early and I wouldn't be surprised if the match committee looked at that and decided to train the boys a bit harder for a bit longer this PS, all with an eye on September.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Craig was on telly tonight and made the point that we are a long way off of where we want to be.

He also made the point that in general our younger players have struggled and we don't have the depth that we had hoped to have. in particular he was disappointed with the defensive efforts of our younger players.

He said that we need our more senior players back in the team to make the game plan work, and that we would be getting 3 of them back for the Carlton game - Maric and Vince were 2 of them, and I think Bock was the 3rd.

IMO the big disappointment has been the performance of those younger players not in the regular 22 and the little impact they have had when given a chance, Cook, Sloane and Petrenko excluded. One thing that has struck me like a ton of bricks is that we have over drafted on talls and as a result we are a young mid or two short of where we should be IMO.

To have the type of year that we have all hoped for, we must have a very injury free year or we will tend to struggle IMO.

It would seem on lasts nights form not a lot has changed since our pre season. It would seem that unless we have out best 22 on the park we are going to struggle. Even then we cannot afford players like Bock, Van Berlo and Vince to look as underdone as they do. Hopefully last night blew out some cobwebs for these guys as they looked fairly rusty.