Should We..

[Lupton Warchild Pittman]

We have to "fill holes" with our trading/drafting. We currently have a surplus of flankers, i.e. Dale, Neon, Medhurst & Didak; I also think Pendlebury will be played off a flank in the future given his strong hands.

The Top 10 picks this year is filled with class Midfielders, i.e. Ziebel, Hartlett, now Sidebottom, in 06 we identifed the strong depth of KPP & traded/stocked up. Didak is class no doubt but Medhurst can cover him, he will never be a true Mid owing to his tank & I think a lot are getting carried away that he was a Mid in 08' owing to his kick count.

Our window is 2/3 years away. By the time Didak will be past his peak, if we trade him for a high pick, we could realistically have 3 Drafts, i.e. 05 (Thomas, Pendlebury, Jack), 06 (Clarke, Goldsack, Dawes, Brown) & 08 (potentially owing to the Didak trade - Hartlett/Sidebottom) come together as 1. It would ensure a flag.

 

[tess]

I'll be honest MM is starting to remind me of Barrassi when he was coaching the Swans.

 

[ChipDouglas]

What you want to happen and what is actually happening are two different things.

 

[FadeAway]

I thought that too but he is being shopped around.

Yeah i have been told that the Pies are shopping him around to see what they can get for him first. Its a smart move because he is about to reach his peak as a player and if they can get something very good in return they will get rid of him! BUT then again plenty of us want him to stay and it wouldnt make sence to get cousins and get rid of Dids

 

[mattys123]

I think Didak will be the testing material for all of trade week.

If someone is willing to give us a 1st round draft pick, even an upgrade, in a trade deal involving him, then I think the whole trade week will open up and 1st round draft picks will be shopped around freely.

If on the other hand, we cant get a draft pick deal going for Dids, I think draft week will be very boring and players like Farren Ray and Ryan Crowley will be the biggest names traded.

Personally, if we can get a top 5 draft pick for Didak without losing our other 1st round pick, I think we should do it, other wise, keep him, and build for 2-3 years for a flag around him and our other current potential stars.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

If our window is two or three years away, why are we interested in recruiting Cousins? Should we therefore not recruit him and try for an early first rounder for Didak. It seems pointless saying that Didak is too old at 26, then go after a 30 yo.

 

[PieLebo87]

Hawthorn today proved the worth of high draft picks. Soon Carlton will be contending with these picks, we must be doing everything in our power to get 2 picks inside the top 10/11.

Hawthorn also proved that a supreme midfield full of hard-nuts with a sprinkle of elite players is required to challenge for a Premiership. We don't have that. Didak will never be, Davis will never be, Swan needs to improve his disposal if he is ever going to become an elite midfielder, Thomas needs to take the next step into a midfielder and we need the youngsters with potential to start stepping up soon, Ie. Stanley.

The Grand Final trully showed how pathetic our midfield really is, and it cannot be band-aid together with duds like Harris, Crowley and co. We need to draft young mids that can become elite A-graders, which does make it appealing to trade Didak IF the right offer comes along. (Pick 4 + Thomson & possibly a swap of picks later on in our favour.)

We are not behind sides like Geelong and Hawthorn, we are just a couple players short at particular levels. We need a couple more A-grade midfielders, we need our backmen to maintain their development and before you know it, we're well and trully hunting a flag.

 

[spartan-magpie]

didak and davis are hacks then? u are insulting two of our better players... remeber these 2 have already helped us get to 2 grand finals already... if only the rest of our team were as bad as didak swan and davis...

just on didak.. he is an elite hff who is trying to become an elite mid.. watch this space...

 

[PieLebo87]

didak and davis are hacks then? u are insulting two of our better players... remeber these 2 have already helped us get to 2 grand finals already... if only the rest of our team were as bad as didak swan and davis...

just on didak.. he is an elite hff who is trying to become an elite mid.. watch this space...

LOL you don't understand much footy, do you? Or you just feel like arguing like an idiot?

So because I don't classify them as A-grade midfielders in the AFL, then I've called them hacks? And yes, by AFL elite midfielders standards, Didak and Davis are hacks.

They've helped us make two Grand Finals? HA! Bullshit they did, mate. One was in his first year, and another was in his 2nd! They didn't do shit to help us get into the Grand Finals.

That Collingwood side was praised as being hard and tough, which is what got them into '02 & '03. I can hardly see a 1st or 2nd year player like Didak or Davis would've done to be such a major contributor. David King played a game in those seasons, does that mean he also contributed in getting us to a Grand Final? Matthew Lokan REALLY contributed to get us into a Grand Final, is he a hack? Thank you.

If you're going to rely on Swan, Didak and Davis of today to win a flag, then you're going to be waiting another 50 years, my friend, because it takes, and as has been the case in the last 2 years, more then just a Swan, Didak or Davis to get a side into a Grand Final, and thats nothing to be proud off, because I'm not after Grand Finals, I'm after Premierships, as a Collingwood supporter.

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

LOL you don't understand much footy, do you? Or you just feel like arguing like an idiot?...

Sounds like somebody needs a hug

 

[Lupton Warchild Pittman]

So because I don't classify them as A-grade midfielders in the AFL, then I've called them hacks? And yes, by AFL elite midfielders standards, Didak and Davis are hacks

Thought Neon's last month was nearing elite but to be considered with them he has to do it for a whole season, not just a patch. As for Didak, a lot of people are correlating a high kick statistic for the year & him being a midfielder of note, which is wrong. Today a player can get a lot of kicks owing to the uncontested nature of play, Didak is never going to burn off an Ablett, Judd, Bartel, etc head to head.

We need to bite the bullet like Hawthorn did with Hay & Thompson & trade up for 1st Rounders in a bid to get the likes of Ziebel, Hartlett or a Sidebottom.

 

[spartan-magpie]

LOL you don't understand much footy, do you? Or you just feel like arguing like an idiot?

who was arguing.. i dont agree with what you posted...sorry if my knowledege isnt as as extensive as yours....

So because I don't classify them as A-grade midfielders in the AFL, then I've called them hacks? And yes, by AFL elite midfielders standards, Didak and Davis are hacks.

They've helped us make two Grand Finals? HA! Bullshit they did, mate. One was in his first year, and another was in his 2nd! They didn't do shit to help us get into the Grand Finals.

a.didak K H M G
2002 147 46 51 24
2003 177 77 83 30


l.davis
2002 181 48 54 31 2003 (14 games) 85 29 29 18


you're right.. did absoloutely nothing in 2002-03..


That Collingwood side was praised as being hard and tough, which is what got them into '02 & '03. I can hardly see a 1st or 2nd year player like Didak or Davis would've done to be such a major contributor. David King played a game in those seasons, does that mean he also contributed in getting us to a Grand Final? Matthew Lokan REALLY contributed to get us into a Grand Final, is he a hack? Thank you.



If you're going to rely on Swan, Didak and Davis of today to win a flag, then you're going to be waiting another 50 years, my friend, because it takes, and as has been the case in the last 2 years, more then just a Swan, Didak or Davis to get a side into a Grand Final, and thats nothing to be proud off, because I'm not after Grand Finals, I'm after Premierships, as a Collingwood supporter.

in the next two years i do expect to win a flag.. and i do expect these 3 to be major pieces of the puzzle....

 

[PieLebo87]

in the next two years i do expect to win a flag.. and i do expect these 3 to be major pieces of the puzzle....

Mate, I rudely came out all guns blazing because you sounded like one of those Collingwood supporters that believe we've got the best midfielder in the AFL, the best defence in the AFL, Thomas is a superstar, Pendlebury is better than Judd. I apologise for being a bit too harsh, its just that I'm sick of those types that come out and overrate us and our list because it does nothing for us when we're getting knocked out in Semi-finals and Prelims.

We'll agree to disagree re. them helping us make those two Grand Finals, because I don't think they did squat as 1st and 2nd year players. Bit players didn't get us into those Grannies, it was Buckley having a Brownlow year, Burns killing it whilst underrated in the midfield, it was Clement being the best defender in the AFL, it was Rocca having a large presence up forward with Tarrant and to a lesser extent, it was Jason Cloke as a loose in the backline. Dids and Neon were bit players beginning their careers. If you wanna talk about their Grand Final years, you should mention Davis's record in those two Grand Finals. Hopefully he gets a chance to erradicate that in his career.

They'll be pieces of the puzzle that win us a Premiership, because don't get me wrong, I think we can win a flag very soon. But it'll be more-so thanks to a more mature backline led by O'Brien and Brown, a more mature midfield led by Pendles, Thomas and McCarthy and a forward line that is injury-free for most parts of the season.

I stated Swan is as close to A-grade as can get for a Magpie, but his disposal is nowhere near A-grade. Didak and Davis, as someone else has mentioned, are nowhere near A-grade until they can play in the midfield on a full-time basis and dominate a game like Kerr, Ablett, Mitchell and Corey. Because it is disrespectful to classify a Didak or a Davis in these players' league when they don't do half as much as these guys do, who are superstars of this competition.

 

[spartan-magpie]

Mate, I rudely came out all guns blazing because you sounded like one of those Collingwood supporters that believe we've got the best midfielder in the AFL, the best defence in the AFL, Thomas is a superstar, Pendlebury is better than Judd. I apologise for being a bit too harsh, its just that I'm sick of those types that come out and overrate us and our list because it does nothing for us when we're getting knocked out in Semi-finals and Prelims.

We'll agree to disagree re. them helping us make those two Grand Finals, because I don't think they did squat as 1st and 2nd year players. Bit players didn't get us into those Grannies, it was Buckley having a Brownlow year, Burns killing it whilst underrated in the midfield, it was Clement being the best defender in the AFL, it was Rocca having a large presence up forward with Tarrant and to a lesser extent, it was Jason Cloke as a loose in the backline. Dids and Neon were bit players beginning their careers. If you wanna talk about their Grand Final years, you should mention Davis's record in those two Grand Finals. Hopefully he gets a chance to erradicate that in his career.

They'll be pieces of the puzzle that win us a Premiership, because don't get me wrong, I think we can win a flag very soon. But it'll be more-so thanks to a more mature backline led by O'Brien and Brown, a more mature midfield led by Pendles, Thomas and McCarthy and a forward line that is injury-free for most parts of the season.

I stated Swan is as close to A-grade as can get for a Magpie, but his disposal is nowhere near A-grade. Didak and Davis, as someone else has mentioned, are nowhere near A-grade until they can play in the midfield on a full-time basis and dominate a game like Kerr, Ablett, Mitchell and Corey. Because it is disrespectful to classify a Didak or a Davis in these players' league when they don't do half as much as these guys do, who are superstars of this competition.

i admire your passion and no i dont think we have the best list int he league either.. for every strength we have we have almost as many weaknesses...

i think everybody here would be kidding themselves if they thought we'd win a GF with our list as it stands right now...

yes our midfield isnt great.... but im sure natural progression will help rectify this... and drafting a sidebottom, ziebelll, swift, zaharakis, cousins will help alot....
our backline is young anstill developing, possibly short one KPB and one small forward specialist type...

as for our forardline i have no concerns in this area whatsoever we an abundance of depth and potential here... its up to mick to get the best out of the young men- should be the most potent forward line in the leauge imo...
and finally our ruck brigade is so far a joke.... 13 in hitouts in 2008 is it any wonder our midfield looks as bad as it does???


if i had my way id trade medders and our first round pick straight to west coast and get kerr and their 3rd or 4th rounder....
id also look at trading josh for a late first rounder and bring in white to help out wood over the next season or 2 till he blossoms....

 

[PieLebo87]

if i had my way id trade medders and our first round pick straight to west coast and get kerr and their 3rd or 4th rounder....
id also look at trading josh for a late first rounder and bring in white to help out wood over the next season or 2 till he blossoms....

I actually had that thought, but it was only a thought. I'd assume Collingwood supporters would neck anyone considering trading Medhurst! But he IS 26 and in his prime. I'd rather trade him now for someone of the same age which fits our needs in the midfield. We'd get a latter pick in return and frees up a MaCaffer or Anthony in the forward line as trading Tarrant did for Cloke.

I've also contemplated trading Fraser for an early 2nd rounder/late 1st rounder, getting White for a year or two (would do the exact same thing in '09/'10) and picking up a ruckman in this year's draft and allow to develop with Keefe and Wood so we have a formidable young ruck force which has learnt from a good ruckman in 3 years time.

In: Kerr, White, 3rd/4th rounder
Out: Medhurst, Fraser, 1st rounder

Thats not a bad thing. But good luck finding someone that would want Josh Fraser for a 1st rounder.

 

[shawthing09]

Didak probably is being and probably should be shopped around. And if we could get a pick inside the top 6 I reckon we would be silly not to take it. I think as others have said Didak is an elite HFF. Elite midfielders are of more value and Didak will never be an elite midfielder.

The other thing is we have excess HFF who can pinch hit in the middle with Davis and Thomas. Medhurst is more flanker but has played up the ground towards the end of the year. Dick is also that sort of Flanker / Pocket player. You trade your excess to add to your flaws.

The other thing shopping Didak around is drives home the message and precident set. Even if he doesn't go it will be clear that he is no longer going to get away with saying "Oh I am sorry I love collingwood and want to be a pie for life" and be forgiven.

 

[Skade]

ensure[/COLOR] a flag.

Is that right.

I know one things for sure, that would ensure we loose our possibly best player.

It would ensure we have lots of kids with potential.

 

[Lethal06]

Our Premiership window is not yet open but is coming soon. We've over-achieved for the past two years but, looking to 2009, retirements have left us too inexperienced to win the necessary three/four consecutive matches in September against mature finalists.

With that in mind, we should focus on the three golden rules of recruitment - talented young, talented youth and more talented youth. Then sit back and let them learn and gel together into a team that will be genuine contenders for a solid four or five year period.

I would make one exception to my proposed "talented youth only" recruitment strategy. Get Cousins. Very little downside risk and loads of upside from a TEAM point of view. Yes, he'll be on the edge of retirement by the time we are a muture contender, HOWEVER, in the two or three years we get out him, he'll be able to teach our midfielders how to train, win the ball, use it once they've won it, and run to the point of exhaustion (and then run some more). With Bucks, Lica and Burns all gone, we need a midfield General who can take the kids under his wing and show them how to be better players than they ever imagined. As things stand, that job would fall to O'Bree, which is not something that I want to contemplate.

 

[Bonuspoints]

Very little downside....there's plenty of downside. We're all speculating here on where his head is at. There is nothing to see he won't slip back to bad habits and potential lead others along with him. No guarantees here guys. His body may not hold and he may spend two years in and out of the doctors room with hamstring injuries. Also he may go national draft which means we may have to spend a second round pick in a talent heavy draft. Thats a big cost to me. Not massive, but a significant cost given the risk. I'm happy for us to let that risk go to someone else.

Given how well our recruitment has been going and we're about two to three years away I'm happy to back a youth policy. Even if that means some aggressive trading of my favourite players like Davis and Didak. It will hurt to see them in opposition colours and if we tumble outside the eight, but given these days you need something of a super team to win the big one it may be tha pain we need to take.

 

[Lupton Warchild Pittman]

We have to go in with the same philosophy of the 06 Draft, loading up when there is quality. We had an almost identical pick after losing against the Dogs (Pick 10) & traded a player (Tarrant) who had offield issues & acquired a higher pick (Pick 8).

By the time our Window opens, would have 3 drafts where we've had high Picks.

05', Pick 2, Pick 5.
06, Pick 8, Pick 10.
08, Pick 11, *prospective top 10 pick for Didak.

Didak can be covered, Medhurst basically plays his role & is superior overhead.

 

[Torpy]

How the heck will Didak be past his peak at 28? Late 20s is generally considered to be the peak of an athletes career, therefore at 28 he should be AT his peak, physically and mentally. Look at Leon Davis, he's 27 and this was his best season yet, I'd say he is just starting to hit his peak... oh and did I mention Bucks was 31 when he won the Brownlow?

 

[tess]

So leon should be great trade bait for a few high picks then.