Simon Goodwin: Tradebait?

[tribey]

We're getting to the business end of the season and failing a double-disaster against the Kangaroos and the Power we should finish top-5, meaning another year of low draft picks.

Considering our list is beginning to age rapidly, with the likes of Smart, Bickley, Burns, Carey, Hart, Clarke in or near their twilight years it's time we looked to the future and began to rebuild.

The question is, with such low draft-picks year-in and year-out is it time we traded some established top talent to gain some genuine young talent with potential and also ease our salary-cap burden? Look at the Power a few years ago - they took a punt and traded arguably then hottest young midfielder in the league - Nathan Eagleton - for honest flanker Brett Montgomery. Many questioned the Power's acumen but look at both players four years down the track.

The most obvious man to go, for me, is Simon Goodwin - even though he has just signed a 3-year contract extension (which means we can trade from strength rather than having to take what we can get). He'll still be only 27 next season and can play a variety of roles - from midfield, to the forward line to halfback. He has been selected as an All-Australian twice in the past and of course, has two Premiership medallions from his first two seasons in the league.

Is it time - like with Kane Johnson - we slapped Goody on the table and said "this is what we want."? A number 1 pick from the Bulldogs to snag an Adam Cooney, Farren Ray or Keplar Bradley perhaps? Or do we try to nab one of St. Kilda's many young key position players - they are in need of experience and midfield types with Burkey retiring and Harvs aging, after all. Or does Simon cross over to the dark side for someone like Chad Cornes to come the other way?

While the prospects of Simon actually being offered up by Adelaide is remote to negligible, I think it's high time we thought about shifting a couple of our big names... we've all been worried by the lack of a decent rookie to select in our votes every week... and as we all know, there are 6 or 7 blokes on our list we rely on week-in week-out who aren't getting any younger.

I think it's worth a shot - the days of spending tradeweek trading crap for crap went out in when the 3-way Salmon/Jarman/Wellman deal was struck.

Thoughts?

 

[macca23]

Good post. Of the mid-field he is the one that could be spared if needs be, and his CV reads very well.

I don't think it will happen but if it were for the type of draft pick or KPP you're talking about, I'd be for it.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Look at the Power a few years ago - they took a punt and traded arguably then hottest young midfielder in the league - Nathan Eagleton - for honest flanker Brett Montgomery. Many questioned the Power's acumen but look at both players four years down the track.

Port had the Bulldogs over a barrell in this deal. Footscray were so desperate to get Eagleton that Port also managed to get Bishop and the draft pick that brought them Guerra out of this.

And re Goodwin. NO! He is an untouchable. The fact that he's a past All Australian player (are you sure it was twice? I thought it was just 2000) is a reason not to trade him, not a reason to trade him.

The state of our list is just fine. The whole aging crap is overrated. You're being sucked in by the jealous cries of underpeforming clubs. Is it just coincidence that the 'aging' teams - and if you look at the statistics, ours/Port's/Brisbane's lists are only a small margin older than the rest - are the ones who are a premiership threat?

 

[tribey]

Re: Re: Simon Goodwin: Tradebait?

Originally posted by DaveW
The state of our list is just fine. The whole aging crap is overrated. You're being sucked in by the jealous cries of underpeforming clubs. Is it just coincidence that the 'aging' teams - and if you look at the statistics, ours/Port's/Brisbane's lists are only a small margin older than the rest - are the ones who are a premiership threat?

First-up, Goody was an All-Australian in 2000 and 2001.

Secondly, Is our list fine? Carey and Burns are the wrong side of 30 and have a history of injury problems - and they're both very important to our forward setup.

Hart and Smart are getting on and their form this year has been roundly questioned - yet they're our two best defenders...

Bickley is still a key member of our midfield rotation and he is near retirement.....

Clarke is 31 next season, is our key ruckman with only Biglands and Ben Marsh to back him up.....

Stevens looks just about shot with his bad knees and other injury woes...

Welsh is injury-prone...

And the only rookies we've given a vote to this season are Skipworth, Reilly, Schuback, Trentschel and Rutten.

Sure the list is fine now... but what about next year and the year after that?

 

[DaveW]

Re: Re: Re: Simon Goodwin: Tradebait?

Originally posted by dyertribe
First-up, Goody was an All-Australian in 2000 and 2001.

Secondly, Is our list fine? Carey and Burns are the wrong side of 30 and have a history of injury problems - and they're both very important to our forward setup.

Carey's always been a short term option and Burns is a fringe player. We have players on our list to replace both.

Hart and Smart are getting on and their form this year has been roundly questioned - yet they're our two best defenders...

McGregor and Bassett are our two most important KP defenders. Hart still has plenty of football left in him and the criticism of him has been unfair, he's still as solid as ever. Smart can be replaced.

Bickley is still a key member of our midfield rotation and he is near retirement.....

We have plenty of players who can replace Bicks.

Clarke is 31 next season, is our key ruckman with only Biglands and Ben Marsh to back him up.....

Which is a lot better ruck back up than many other clubs. I think Clarke could be around for a while - a la Paul Salmon maybe - his form is still very good.

Stevens looks just about shot with his bad knees and other injury woes...

He's coming back next week, that will soon be behind him.

Welsh is injury-prone...

Welsh just needs a bit of luck.

And the only rookies we've given a vote to this season are Skipworth, Reilly, Schuback, Trentschel and Rutten.

They and Mattner are the only rookies we've played. This isn't a rebuilding this year.

Sure the list is fine now... but what about next year and the year after that?

Our current depth and future drafting and trading will keep our list strong. But there's no need to take drastic action like getting rid of loyal clubmen like Simon Goodwin.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Goodwin is a required player. We should only trade him if we were getting an unbelievable deal. Not his fault he got pushed into the fence by Crawf. He was burning in pre-season & we are yet to see the best of him.

Our list is pretty sound, so we don't need to make any major structural changes. Main thing lacking is ruckmen behind Clarke & Biglands.

For KPP we are OK - We have Stevens, Perrie, Carey, McGregor, Bassett & Smart. By the time a few retire, hopefully Rutten & Hentschel will have developed into AFL stabdard. Probably need to draft another youngster & cut Bock & Smith loose.

For midfielders we are OK - Apart from Bicks, the remaining players will be around for sometime yet. We need to make sure we bring through Reilly & develop Stiffy. Should look at trading away some fringe players (Doughty, Gags, etc) if we can't see them being major contributors to our side - even if we can't get much for them, you need to be fair to the player.

 

[jacqui9]

God I would love Goodwin at the Hawks!!!!!!

I dont really like the Crows, but he is one player I do admire.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Dyertribe you make a fair point but my understanding is that Goodwin cannto be traded this year due to the new bargaining agreement.

Our future in the midfield is OK. We have Reilly, Schuback, Johncock, Skipworth coming thorugh and the likes of Ladhams, Bode, McLeod, Roo and Goodwin have planty of footy in them. Rebuilding midfield is not a problem as that can be done over the next 2-3 years.

Ruckman is definetly a priority and looking at last nights showing, we need one that can present around the ground. I don't like our chances of drafting one of that ilk this year. There is a great shortage of decent ruckman this year and Bradley is the only one that offers something around the ground and he is well and truely out of our reach.

We could probably trade for someone like Brooks or Seaby from WC. Maybe even Jamar. Definetly a priority.


KPP are fine except that we probably need a future CHF to develop. If Rutten had more pace I would not be worried but the big question is whether or not he can gain a yard or 2. Unfotunately this years draft is thin on talls and there are 4 players that would fit our bill well but are likely to go before we get our 1st selection. Fergus Watts and Troy Chaplin are top 10 picks. William Gayfer is better than both of those but has injured his knee and has missed a lot of footy this year. His stocks might slip but I doubt it. Another player is Billy Morrison from Tassie but he injured his shoulder playing for Australia in Ireland and has had a reconstruction. He is a bit of a smokey but with so many clubs KPP we might be well and truely stuffed for quality.


Ottens comes out of contract next year so having a crack at him at the end of next year should be a priority.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The key to the list is to keep a balance of positions & age. At the moment the only thing we lack is ruck depth. We would be stuffed if either Biglands or Clarke got injured (touch wood!!!!!!!) Also, need to look at developing a ruckman or 2 for when Clarke retires.

AFC have never had a problem drafting midfielders as we always seem to be able to find a bargain later in the draft.

2nd priority is another KPP.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

PS Stiffy, Ottens would be a nice fit at the Crows, to sit in a forward pocket / backup ruckman. Career seems to have stagnated at the Tigers. What would we give up to get him?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
What would we give up to get him?

What dyertribe suggested and a bit more.

 

[Crow54]

No way would you trade an Adelaide born player (especially one as good as Goody) for an interstate early draftee.... they always end up going home, or failing for some reason. Well, the Victorian ones, that is.

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Originally posted by dyertribe
We're getting to the business end of the season and failing a double-disaster against the Kangaroos and the Power we should finish top-5, meaning another year of low draft picks.

Considering our list is beginning to age rapidly, with the likes of Smart, Bickley, Burns, Carey, Hart, Clarke in or near their twilight years it's time we looked to the future and began to rebuild.

The question is, with such low draft-picks year-in and year-out is it time we traded some established top talent to gain some genuine young talent with potential and also ease our salary-cap burden? Look at the Power a few years ago - they took a punt and traded arguably then hottest young midfielder in the league - Nathan Eagleton - for honest flanker Brett Montgomery. Many questioned the Power's acumen but look at both players four years down the track.

The most obvious man to go, for me, is Simon Goodwin - even though he has just signed a 3-year contract extension (which means we can trade from strength rather than having to take what we can get). He'll still be only 27 next season and can play a variety of roles - from midfield, to the forward line to halfback. He has been selected as an All-Australian twice in the past and of course, has two Premiership medallions from his first two seasons in the league.

Is it time - like with Kane Johnson - we slapped Goody on the table and said "this is what we want."? A number 1 pick from the Bulldogs to snag an Adam Cooney, Farren Ray or Keplar Bradley perhaps? Or do we try to nab one of St. Kilda's many young key position players - they are in need of experience and midfield types with Burkey retiring and Harvs aging, after all. Or does Simon cross over to the dark side for someone like Chad Cornes to come the other way?

While the prospects of Simon actually being offered up by Adelaide is remote to negligible, I think it's high time we thought about shifting a couple of our big names... we've all been worried by the lack of a decent rookie to select in our votes every week... and as we all know, there are 6 or 7 blokes on our list we rely on week-in week-out who aren't getting any younger.

I think it's worth a shot - the days of spending tradeweek trading crap for crap went out in when the 3-way Salmon/Jarman/Wellman deal was struck.

Thoughts?

no way jose, that is my thougts.

k
xx

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Re: Re: Re: Simon Goodwin: Tradebait?

Originally posted by dyertribe
First-up, Goody was an All-Australian in 2000 and 2001.

Secondly, Is our list fine? Carey and Burns are the wrong side of 30 and have a history of injury problems - and they're both very important to our forward setup.

They were never long term prospects. Carey was a priority - we wanted him - we got him - he is fantastic and worth everything. Burns was a gamble that has mixed results. We always knew they would only be around a couple of years.

Hart and Smart are getting on and their form this year has been roundly questioned - yet they're our two best defenders...

Hart has a lot of footy ahead of him. I am not even discussing him retiring yet, that is a long way off. Smarty is playing good footy and I would encourage him to play on. Bassett & McGregor have many years left also. We could do with another tall defender but it isn't a weakness.


Bickley is still a key member of our midfield rotation and he is near retirement.....

Bicks is a legend and should also play on. However we have a strong midfield. With Roo, Goody, Stinger, Macca we are fine in this department.

Clarke is 31 next season, is our key ruckman with only Biglands and Ben Marsh to back him up.....

[Clarkey is still going storng. It is time we got rid of Marsh though. We need to find a good young ruckman to fill Clarkey's shoes. Biggles has years ahead of him.

Stevens looks just about shot with his bad knees and other injury woes...

Now you've got me mad!!! He has had trouble this year no doubt. But..........he is over that now and he will be back this week. He has some years ahead of him, how quick we forget how good he is!!!

Welsh is injury-prone...

And the only rookies we've given a vote to this season are Skipworth, Reilly, Schuback, Trentschel and Rutten.

Sure the list is fine now... but what about next year and the year after that?

k
xx

 

[tribey]

Fair enough

 

[maccas_no1]

Goodwin mmmmmmmmmmm agree with you Dyertribe he would one midfielder you could possibly trade........... and I may slap myself for saying this would be will to give him up for a couple of VERY good draft picks to snare some good young players.........I think the AFC realise that once Bickley,Smart,Carey,Burns and Clarke finish we are going to go through and mini rebuild but I think the AFC are being smart by starting to prepare and find who can play at AFL level this year by playing the like's of Rutten,Skipworth,Schuback,Mattner and Reilly

One the other hand AFC and no Simon Goodwin...............doesnt seem right

Ottens and Camporale is who we should be going after this trade period I would love to get Ottens and I reakon he would leave Richmond too...........I think if we dont go after him the Power will

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Camporale

Overrated aging hack.

Not what we need.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by DaveW
Overrated aging hack.

Not what we need.

I agree, Camporeale is the last thing we need.

One thing became even more obvious on friday night, We need a ruckman who can offer us something around the ground. As good as Clarke is he is a liability as soon as the ball hits the ground.

Ottens and/or Brogan would be a perfect fit. I would much rather Ottens since he can also play forward and kick goals. Ottens is still under contract next year and if we are to snatch him it would have to be at the end of 2004 season and you can expect that it would cost an arm and a leg. Goodwin and a 1st round draft pick.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Ottens is still under contract next year and if we are to snatch him it would have to be at the end of 2004 season and you can expect that it would cost an arm and a leg. Goodwin and a 1st round draft pick.

This is exactly what I'm saying.

We snagged Bicks, Hart and Smarty from our original crop of players and rely on a few others who are getting on in years. Thus if we wish to replace these guys or improve our list we have to rely on more low draftpicks or trades.

Our luck in the draft over the years has shown that we've had next to no luck drafting genuine quality with the low picks we traditionally have - with a few notable exceptions. To continue to be a force in this league we may have to bite the bullet and a take a risk at the trade table with an established player or two.

If not, sure we can stick with what we've got... but it's clear we are in need of a young ruckman to bring along and a couple of young key position players (who are a long way ahead in their development of where Trentschel and Rutten are now) at the very least.

This is what trade-week is for. And these days recruiting managers and senior coaches aren't stupid. If you want quality you have to be prepared to trade it. The days of the early 90s when the only players put on the table were the bottom 10 on your list or your last couple of draft picks are gone.

 

[maccas_no1]

Camporale is not a hack....................I think he isnt enjoying his footy at Carlton and needs a fresh start

Camporale will be at the AFC in 2004

Goodwin and a first Rnd draft pick for Ottens Im all for that

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Camporale will be at the AFC in 2004

I bloody hope not. I hope that Adelaide are much more smarter and go for youngsters in the draft or trades. Camporeale is not required and I sure as hell don't want him at Adelaide for various reasons, age and salary cap being the obvious ones.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Camporale is not a hack....................I think he isnt enjoying his footy at Carlton and needs a fresh start

Camporale will be at the AFC in 2004

Goodwin and a first Rnd draft pick for Ottens Im all for that

Please outline the case as to why we need an overpaid aging reciever.

I think you're going mad.

 

[DaveW]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Simon Goodwin: Tradebait?

Originally posted by DaveW

Originally posted by dyertribe
And the only rookies we've given a vote to this season are Skipworth, Reilly, Schuback, Trentschel and Rutten.

They and Mattner are the only rookies we've played.

Or should I say Martner?

 

[lozstar]

Goodwin is going nowhere.. get that idea outta your head

Doesn't Camporeale say all the time that he wants to come to Adelaide and ends up screwing them over?

 

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

Originally posted by lozstar
Goodwin is going nowhere.. get that idea outta your head

Doesn't Camporeale say all the time that he wants to come to Adelaide and ends up screwing them over?

WE ARE NOT trading Goodwin for Camporeale!!!! We do no want the little grease ball from Carlton. C'mon Marty, I thought you were smarter than that!

k
xx