So, now what? (ODI side changes)

[legend166]

We're out of the World Cup. That sucks.

What do you think should now happen to the makeup of the ODI team?

I think at least, Ponting, Hussey, Haddin and Lee need to be phased out of the side over the next 6 months. I love all those guys and they've been brilliant ODI players for Australia for a long time (well, less so Haddin), but the fact is they are old and will not play any role in the next WC. We've been very ruthless before with cutting guys who we don't think will be part of the next WC squad (Bevan the main example), so it shouldn't be different here.

We also really need to work on the balance of our bowling attack. I don't know why they thought having Johnson and Tait in the same team would be a good idea. I understand that injuries hurt us about (you'd think Harris and/or Mackay would have been in the side), but it was still poor selection.

Cameron White needs to be dropped. Especially since our next tour is in Bangladesh, and it's clear as day he struggles on those pitches.

What do people think should happen, and what do people think will happen?

 

[wavefall21]

Re: So, now what?

I think you should be asking "what should happen to Australian cricket overall?"....They were going to wait until after the WC to do an in depth review of Cricket Australia....Now's the time move on with Hilditch, he clearly is delusional in his thought processes....We also need to start rebuilding in all forms, because lets be honest, our team esp in Test and ODI crickets is mainly made up of old guys who are done, who will be there the next WC


In regards to the ODI, I agree it's time for Punter, Mike and Dave Hussey, Haddin and Lee to move aside so we can blood some young players, clearly playing those guys will hinder the rebuilding process because lets be honest, none of those guys will be playing at the next WC

 

[legend166]

Re: So, now what?

Yeah, but we've had heaps of discussions on the Test team already. That's why I only made this about the ODI team.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Re: So, now what?

I don't see Tait still being around for the next World Cup, either, so I'm not sure I'd keep picking him, especially ahead of the likes of Pattinson and Hazelwood (when he's fit and firing again), or Cummins (when he's considered ready for international cricket), or maybe even Starc, Faulkner or Butterworth.
I love the Punter, but it's hard to see a reason for him keeping Finch out of the team from now on, since he won't be playing in the next World Cup. Probably the same with Mussey and someone like Ferguson and Cameron White and someone who's in form.
I don't believe we need to be too extreme, though. I think someone like Dan Christian ought to be given a go, as he'll only be 31 or so in the next WC, which is certainly not "too old".

 

[Kyptastic]

Re: So, now what?

Unlike Tests, you have a clear goal for ODI team selections in the World Cup. Therefore, all players picked between now and 2015 should be under the proviso of whether the selectors believe that they will be an asset in that World Cup. Of the current squad, those in bold do not fit into that category, whilst those in italics have some question marks regarding form, fitness and temperament:

Ponting
Clarke
White
Haddin
Watson
MHussey
DHussey
Ferguson
Paine
Smith
Hastings
Tait
Lee
Johnson
Krejza
Bollinger
Nannes

Of those outside the current squad, good servants like Harris and Hauritz, who would have been an asset to our tilt at the this world cup, will most likely not be in the frame for the next cup. Players like McKay (and Shaun Marsh, although his fitness is a concern) would, however.

That leaves you with a core group of:

Clarke
Watson
Ferguson
Paine
Shaun Marsh*
Smith
Hastings
McKay

The five batsmen (Clarke, Watson, Ferguson, Paine and Marsh) there make up a solid batting order, accounting for form and fitness. You'd want to see another two batsmen to add to that core group that you're developing - someone like Finch will get a chance sooner rather than later. One or two of the younger brigade need to start tearing up the Ford Ranger cup Brad Hodge style to really press their claims - a Lynn, Maddinson or a consistent Warner would work well here.

The bowling is a bit more tricky, and unless a late developer like a Harris steps up, it's going to be up to the younger group to carry us forward in one day cricket. Pattinson and Starc probably have first crack seeing how the selectors have gone over the past couple of years, but there's no dearth of talent around the country at the moment. The spin bowling is more of a concern, especially since someone like Holland hasn't developed as people would have liked. Doherty's a solid fill in, whilst an O'Keefe would be perfect if he started performing better in ODD's.

You wouldn't do a mass clear out straight away, but bring in one or two players at a time, allow them to grow accustomed to the pressure of international cricket, but by 18 months out from the World Cup we need to have decided on our 15 players, and consistently play them so they are gelled as a unit. Playing at home in conditions the younger players are used to will also benefit the side.

 

[Subprime]

Re: So, now what?

Michael Clarke continues to post performances that should put his spot in question.

At the 2011 WC his numbers are as follows:

58 runs not out from 55 balls vs Zim
24no (37) NZ
93 (80) Kenya
16no (17) Canada
34 (48) Pakistan
8 (19) India

Overall 233 runs @ 78 with a strike rate of 91

Against non-minnows: 66 runs @ 33 with a strike rate of 63

 

[aussierulesrules]

Re: So, now what?

I think Clarke has to keep his spot as he's found his form again recently and has done very well when captaining Australia in Ponting's absence. It would be going too far to have him, Ponting, White, and possibly both the Hussey's go all around the same time.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Re: So, now what?

We need to find 2 bowlers and 2 batsmen that can play on slow wickets.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Re: So, now what?

Clint McKay would have been ideally suited to those slower wickets, with his medium pace and outstanding slower balls and I imagine Hastings would have been too, for the same reasons (although not as good).
Not sure about who would have been the batting equivalent, though.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: So, now what?

For the ODI side
- Lee has been great but im assuming this was his swansong, he'll probably go make cash on the twenty20 circuit or something, he's earnt. Ponting if he wants to keep playing tests should ditch this format. Haddin will get phased out I feel.

- If T Paine is to come in he should not open the batting, which means we need an opening partner for Watson.

- C White does have a future in the short form, but needs to go back to first class/list A cricket for a while

- Tait, well, seeya

- Mike Hussey has to decide whether he wants to keep playing tests as well

I'd look at, in the next 12 months or so ending up with a side like

Finch/Cosgrove(Warner, Khawaja in the wings)
Watson
Clarke(c)
Dussey/Finch, maybe, this middle order is the toughest spot to fill at the moment.
Fergusson
Smith
Paine
Johnson
Doherty
McKay
Pattinson

Bollinger, Hastings, Lyon etc in the wings.
Smith shouldnt have been in the reckoning for this world cup, but looking towards 2015 should def be aroun the team, although needs some more first class cricket/list A also. Pattinson depends on injuries.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Re: So, now what?

I'd prefer Wade as keeper over Paine, to be honest. Rate his batting much higher.

Just off the top of my head, maybe something like...

Shane Watson
Matthew Wade (+)
Aaron Finch
Michael Clarke (c)
Callum Ferguson
Dan Christian
Steve Smith
Steve O'Keefe/Nathan Lyon
Mitchell Johnson
Clint McKay
James Pattinson
12th - Shaun Marsh

My main concern is batting looks a bit brittle. Is Christian capable of batting at 6?

 

[Wicked Lester]

Re: So, now what?

I think Clarke has to keep his spot as he's found his form again recently and has done very well when captaining Australia in Ponting's absence. It would be going too far to have him, Ponting, White, and possibly both the Hussey's go all around the same time.

I agree with you - Clarke has to keep his spot - but I'm far from convinced he has what it takes to lead from the front when the side is under pressure. First up, and lets talk test cricket for a moment - he's been shown not once but twice now to be out of his depth at number 4. It was all good and well for Steve Waugh to lead a more comfortable life at 5 or 6 when he had Ponting and his brother at 3 and 4 (with Ponting in his prime), but in the new world of Australian cricket with a young inexperienced side, I'm not sure the skipper can be seen to be shielding himself from the hard ball.

In fairness, in One Day cricket he does rather better up the order.

As for his captaincy, I'll reserve my judgement. Eight or so one day matches against an English side that was still celebrating an ashes win and would probably have preferred to be at home preparing itself for the World Cup proves absolutely nothing in my view. Let's see how he goes captaining the one day side day in day out.

That's a roundabout way of saying I think its time the selectors tapped Ponting on the shoulder and let him know that the one day side is going to undergo a period of total restructure with lots of younger kids being tried out. As he (Ponting) will not be in the frame for the next World Cup, he should retire from one day cricket. The same goes for Hussey (x2), Haddin, Tait, Lee and possibly even Johnson (who should be told to concentrate on the longer form of the game). White quite possibly too. This is no slur on Ponting. He has a magnificent one day record; both as a batsman and a captain. It's just time for a strategic look to the future.

So, in the one day arena I'd give Clarke an extended go as captain, not because he's earned it, but because we have to know whether he really has the intestinal fortitude to do the job in the longer form of the game.

 

[J Selwood14]

Re: So, now what?

I'd prefer Wade as keeper over Paine, to be honest. Rate his batting much higher.

Just off the top of my head, maybe something like...

Shane Watson
Matthew Wade (+)
Aaron Finch
Michael Clarke (c)
Callum Ferguson
Dan Christian
Steve Smith
Steve O'Keefe/Nathan Lyon
Mitchell Johnson
Clint McKay
James Pattinson
12th - Shaun Marsh

My main concern is batting looks a bit brittle. Is Christian capable of batting at 6?

agree on Wade but it seems like Paine is the first choice for almost everybody

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: So, now what?

I agree Wade should be in before Paine, but the selectors have already earmarked Tim 's/r of 67, one first class century' Paine in the side. He must not open the batting in one day cricket.

Be interesting if Khawaja kicks on in One Day cricket, he played one great knock this year but otherwise doesnt quite have the pace of the game down. He could be a very good opening in the future, allowing Finch in at 4.

 

[Ill Chicken]

Re: So, now what?

Ponting - Needs to retire from the OD format ASAP
Clarke - Needs to removed from the OD format by the end of the next home series.
White - Dropped from the OD format
Haddin - Needs to removed from the OD format by the end of the next home series.
Watson - Needs to toughen up.
MHussey - Retire from OD format ASAP.
DHussey - OD career finished in the next 18 months.
Ferguson - Into the side
Paine - Into the side
Smith - Dropped ASAP
Hastings - Into the side
Tait - OD career finished in the next 18 months.
Lee - Retire ASAP
Johnson - Dropped
Krejza - Dropped
Bollinger - Into the side when fit.
Nannes - No future.

Players that need to come in;
Warner - ASAP - 30 game run
Hauritz - ASAP - 30 game run
Cummins - Give a taste
Pattinson - Give a taste
O'Keefe - Give a taste
Maxwell -Give a taste
S & M Marsh - Shaun ASAP, Mitch a taste
Ronchi - Give a 30 game run
Wade - Give a taste

 

[legend166]

Re: So, now what?

Ronchi?

hahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Ill Chicken]

Re: So, now what?

He is a explosive clean hitter of the ball, has from memory, Australia's fastest ODI half century and domestic OD hundred.

You want to ignore ability that can ignite a side, you'd obviously then be happy with the current status of the Australian OD team.

 

[legend166]

Re: So, now what?

No, I'm ignoring an average, 30 year old keeper with a decidedly mediocre List A average of 26. He should be no where near the Australian side, and it shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[aussie1st]

Re: So, now what?

I'd prefer Wade as keeper over Paine, to be honest. Rate his batting much higher.

Just off the top of my head, maybe something like...

Shane Watson
Matthew Wade (+)
Aaron Finch
Michael Clarke (c)
Callum Ferguson
Dan Christian
Steve Smith
Steve O'Keefe/Nathan Lyon
Mitchell Johnson
Clint McKay
James Pattinson
12th - Shaun Marsh

My main concern is batting looks a bit brittle. Is Christian capable of batting at 6?

You could always move Ferguson to 6 so he fills the Bevan/Hussey role. Hussey was always good enough to bat higher but he was kept at 6 for most part because he is an excellent finisher. I reckon Smith has the ability to play at 5, if you saw his Ford Ranger Cup knocks last season you'll notice he is a guy that needs time to get in before upping the tempo. From what I've seen of him in ODIs he has no problem scoring at a run a ball so I guess he could go alright at 6 if you want to keep Ferguson at 5. Christian offers the brute hitting at 7 although he can float up the order if needed.

 

[Axel.]

Re: So, now what?

Watson
Paine/Wade
Finch
Clarke
Ferguson/Bailey
Marsh
O'Keefe
Johnson
McKay
Hazelwood
Pattinson

 

[The OBSTacle]

Re: So, now what?

I don't like to admit it, bit I think we are in for our first extended drop down the ratings since the mid 80's.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Re: So, now what?

I don't like to admit it, bit I think we are in for our first extended drop down the ratings since the mid 80's.

Yep, but we might as well be developing some players while we are in it, rather than clinging on to the oldies.

Or give another coach a chance to see if he can at least put some spine into the teams.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Re: So, now what?

Yep, but we might as well be developing some players while we are in it, rather than clinging on to the oldies.

I think the problem is that the young quality isn't coming through.

Where is the next Ponting, Waugh, Hayden, Gillespie, Warne or McGrath?

They just aren't out there.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: So, now what?

I think the problem is that the young quality isn't coming through.

Where is the next Ponting, Waugh, Hayden, Gillespie, Warne or McGrath?

They just aren't out there.

There are alot of promising quicks. Hazlewood and Pattinson, faulkner, Copeland in the longer form, Cummins down the track etc. Spin is a different issue.

Im pretty confident in the amount of younger talent around. It's the 25-35 age group that is largely mediocre I feel

 

[courtjester]

Re: So, now what?

If we're looking to the future, this is where we should head:

S. Marsh
D. Warner
S. Watson
M.Clarke (c)
A. Finch
M. Hussey (vc)
M. Wade (wk)
S. O'Keefe
M. Starc
J. Hazelwood
C. McKay

C. Ferguson
M. Marsh
D. Hussey
P. Cummins

Keep M. Hussey and D. Hussey as senior players and clean the rest out.

I don't think this is our strongest current team, but it looks to the future.