Spoon awaits

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Benno_900 said:
Maybe we should tanked harder for the No.1 pick.

He turned out okay.
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It took a decade for him to turn out ok. Not to mention that his side is still pretty crap and has won two more spons since.

In 2006 that draft was supposed to be 2001 all over again, and it took until almost now for any of the top four to be more than barely serviceable. It's a fair point to say you don't know what even a top pick will get you.
 
I don't think we can win next week anyway. We will get the spoon and take the loaded gun to the trade table with GWS. In the meantime lets hope GWS wins the flag. This happens and Kelly is out the door if he isn't already.
 

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Hearts to hearts said:
It took a decade for him to turn out ok. Not to mention that his side is still pretty crap and has won two more spons since.

In 2006 that draft was supposed to be 2001 all over again, and it took until almost now for any of the top four to be more than barely serviceable. It's a fair point to say you don't know what even a top pick will get you.
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What absolute garbage.

Gibbs was a gun from his SECOND YEAR.
 
What is interesting is that we've been conditioned to believe North can't bottom out.
Well, here it is, we are doing so.
And the sky is not falling for the club as a whole.
We're financially sound and are in fact aggressively chasing high profile recruits.
If this had happened 10 years ago we'd have be in deep strife off the field.
We might lose a few members, but we are able to ride out the storm and can afford to get this rebuild right.
 
We will get talent in hoping adhern will be ok as he is a top ten draft pick and then we start to challenge. Injuries have killed us this year but we know we're the list is been to too many games were I have known the result my second quarter.
 
scottywiper said:
What is interesting is that we've been conditioned to believe North can't bottom out.
Well, here it is, we are doing so.
And the sky is not falling for the club as a whole.
We're financially sound and are in fact aggressively chasing high profile recruits.
If this had happened 10 years ago we'd have be in deep strife off the field.
We might lose a few members, but we are able to ride out the storm and can afford to get this rebuild right.
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And as far as member numbers are concerned, if we are lucky enough to get either of Kelly or Martin, or a very good kid in the draft, plus a reasonable injury run, next year we will see people sign back on as we start to win more games of football. This has been a horrible year for results, but I believe will turn out to be a very good year to launch a re-build from. So many kids have got a taste this year and will be busting a gut (I hope figuratively, not literally) to get a bit more next year. But with a bit of luck spots will be fewer for them to compete for.

Sitting there among the Saints fans, who can yet again be "happy" with their teams mediocre performance, I was just thinking that 2018 can't come quick enough for me.
 
roojor said:
We will get talent in hoping adhern will be ok as he is a top ten draft pick and then we start to challenge. Injuries have killed us this year but we know we're the list is been to too many games were I have known the result my second quarter.
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I think I know what you mean.
 
Gasometer said:
Joel Selwood says hey how ya going...sorry i can't get through...why dont you leave your name and your number and i will get back to you...
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Pretty sure Stibbard wanted Selwood but was overruled due to Selwood's knee injury & Laidley wanting Hansen . What a colossal f*** up.
 
I told you guys this would happen. But no, no, no, no-one wanted to believe me. It was like when I told one of my 312 mates in 1974 that Gough Whitlam was doomed as PM because i saw the Governor General eyeball him at the NM GF Breakfast. It was while I was speaking to Bob Ansett about hiring a car for my impending trip to Tassie with a fine young mare. Would've loved to have filmed it, but I didn't have a mobile phone back then.
Two months later, double dissolution, thank you very much. A cool $18 in the pocket too for yours truly as I'd had a lazy 50 cents (which was a lot of money back then) on Gordon Ramsay being the next PM at 36-1!!! Ca-ching!!!!!
 
Good luck with getting Josh and Dusty if we get the spoon. Why would they leave potential flag winning clubs to come to the one that's come last (assuming money isn't the onny thing).
 

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The spoon sure ain't what it used to be. I remember in '84, when we were a real chance to finish last with no number one draft pick to ease the pain, I was absolutely sick at the possibility,the shame and humiliation at the thought was just too much to bear.Anyway,on a cold and wet day at Waverley we managed to beat the Saints by a couple of points, without scoring a goal in the second half, and that game ultimately relegated the Saints to the spoon and saved me from a mire of despair.
Now,on draft day,the number one pick and the team that selects him is feted and lauded like they've done something amazing. The draftee is interviewed,the parents are interviewed,the siblings,the coach,the junior coach,probably front page of the papers and his backstory is studied to within an inch of its life. Its all wonderful and the club is somehow very clever for being able to get this player and the supporters lap it up.
Times sure do change. Oh well,bring it on.
 
Benno_900 said:
Money is the biggest factor
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Seems to be doesn't it , for if it wasn't both would've recommitted to their respective clubs well before this stage . A premiership is great but it doesn't provide with comfort and a lifestyle for the rest of your life .
 
Groucho said:
The spoon sure ain't what it used to be.

Now, on draft day, the number one pick and the team that selects him is feted and lauded like they've done something amazing. The draftee is interviewed, the parents are interviewed, the siblings, the coach, the junior coach, probably front page of the papers and his backstory is studied to within an inch of its life. Its all wonderful and the club is somehow very clever for being able to get this player and the supporters lap it up.
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Being North Melbourne though, we can expect the lukewarm version of this. Daniher is (said enthusiastically) "a star", BBB (said in non-plussed, matter-of-fact way) "has a long run up and takes the ball at it's higher point." :rolleyes:
 
Boomerfan99 said:
Good luck with getting Josh and Dusty if we get the spoon. Why would they leave potential flag winning clubs to come to the one that's come last (assuming money isn't the onny thing).
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If history is any kind of guide, the decision to go or stay has been decided a long time ago, where the side ultimately ends doesn't really matter because they would understand that where a side is at in the current year can be radically different to where they will be in future years if they are ultimately making the side significantly stronger, and if you think you are worth $1m a year then you should make a significant difference to a side.

If you add two players like Kelly and Martin to our midfield, and take out the two worst it would make a spectacular difference to the side. Our midfield is the major problem in the side, we have lost a big chunk of our goal creating runners that we once had, Swallow is shot as a player, Wells is gone and Boomer forced to retire.

Cunnington Ziebell Swallow plus younger players in McDonald, Dumont and Clarke isn't strong enough. However, a midfield of Cunnington, Martin, Kelly plus McDonald, Dumont and Clarke (and hopefully Ahern next year) is significantly stronger.

This year has been bad not just because of the players we lost, the spectacular decline in form of Goldy and Thomas in particular has hurt our side this year. We got 2 goals from LT this year, he kicked 37, 34, 45 and 53 goals the previous years, losing that scoring potential with the loss of Boomer and Wells has hurt us a lot this year. Goldy is on 545 hit outs with one game to go, he finished with 804 last year and 1058 in his Brownlow year. We have lost the first use advantage we once had, is he shot? Can he come back next year? Is he gone? Can we rely on Preuss/Daw in the future? I think if we retain Goldy, he has to focus over the pre-season to be #1 like he had the intent back in 2014/2015.

Higgins is a force multiplier type of player, if we can get him the ball when he is around half forward he will do damage, particularly if we field a strong and balanced forward line, he only managed 16 goals this year and imo dosen't suit the role he is forced to play this year, he kicked 39 in 2015 when we had a better balance/structure, i think he could be a very dangerous half forward next year again.

I'd like to see us keep a moderately tall forward line next year. As much as I like Waite, he should probably retire given he only played 14 last year and 10 this year so far, that isn't a great trajectory after 23 in 2015. I think Brown at FF with a half forward line of Wood, Ziebell and Higgins plus playing two of Garner/Turner/Simpkin/Thomas should give us the focus of working over the pre-season with our delivery inside F50. Despite how bad we are, we are 11th for I50s and 7th for marks in the F50 this year and we are still too bomb-happy. I think going with a more mobile forward structure, with scope to push the resting ruckman forward at times, and a focus on working on good delivery inside F50 I think will make us potent up forward again if we have a very good trade/draft period.

We rely too much on Brown this year. Other than his 56 goals we have 22 from Waite, 16 from Turner, Garner and Higgins, 14 from Wood and 13 from Hrovat and Ziebell. Despite that, we are a respectable 9th for goals kicked this year, given we are playing for the spoon. We are leaking far too many preventable goals and part of that problem is when we get caught out on transition due to a far too slow midfield.

I think if we can get the targets we are linked to, we could go from spoon to top 4 next year, I rate the rest of the competition that poorly, there really isn't anyone to fear, GWS is too flaky, Crows tend to buckle if you put the heat on, Swans look the most imposing and they couldn't win a game at the start of the year, things can turn around.
 
Why Round 23 will be a battle for the wooden spoon a much as the finals positions

TEN years after the Matthew Kreuzer Cup was played between Melbourne and Carlton, a similar scenario will eventuate next weekend.



North Melbourne, who was defeated by 49 points on Sunday afternoon by St Kilda, has not won a wooden spoon since 1972, while their Round 23 opponents Brisbane have not finished last since 1998.

Three years after both these teams came bottom of the table, they won premierships, illustrating just how quickly the wheel can turn.

The Lions and Kangaroos will meet next Saturday afternoon and the loser will have first dibs on pick one in November’s National Draft. So as was the case with the Blues in 2007, the loser of this game will in many respects be the overall winner. Go figure.

Carlton’s victory over Hawthorn on Saturday night means it cannot finish last as it has done four times since 2002.

Cameron Rayner, a Vic Metro midfielder who has been compared to Dustin Martin, is the experts tip for pick one.

Of course whoever loses next weekend could trade this selection and the Lions are open to the idea, but this won’t change the fact that the Round 23 winner will be marginally disadvantaged.

Tanking as a realistic notion is not as rife as it was back when Melbourne and Carlton were shuffling the magnets in 2007. Indeed Brad Scott has repeatedly shot down accusations throughout the back half of this season.

But North Melbourne has handed debuts to 10 players this year, while Brisbane has had six first-gamers. This isn’t strictly ‘tanking’, but it is most certainly keeping one eye on the future. And who can blame either team for this?

Cast your mind back to that 2007 encounter between the Demons and Blues at the MCG.

Just 26,156 fans attended a match in which 36 goals were kicked. Travis Johnstone and Heath Scotland shook hands before the first siren and at the end of the game and didn’t go near each other in between, amassing 83 disposals between them.

The Demons led by 32 points at quarter-time and ended up winning by 31 points. The four points went to Melbourne, but the Kreuzer Cup went the way of Carlton.

There is no suggestion next weekend’s clash at the Gabba would be as loosely contested as the aforementioned match a decade ago. For one, the AFL has stricter regulations and both teams are coached by stable full-time senior leitenaunts.

In 2007, both Melbourne and Carlton were being looked after by caretakers in Mark Riley and Brett Ratten (who would later be appointed to the full-time position).

After Sunday’s loss to St Kilda, Richmond great Matthew Richardson urged the Roos not to put the cue in the rack just yet.

“There’s nothing worse than going into a preseason being flogged in your last few games,” Richardson said on 3AW.

“I’ve been in that situation. It does leave a bitter taste in your mouth.”

Whatever transpires, Cameron Rayner’s future may rest on this otherwise insignificant outcome.
 
As much as it sickens me we really can't afford to 'win' this week. The prize for 'losing' is simply too big. Pick 1 in both the national and pre season drafts gives us massive bargaining power and a chance to fast track the 're-set'. Winning can possibly set us back a year or two. It stinks and goes against what sport should be about but that's the system that we operate in. As someone earlier mentioned the wooden spoon has lost its stigma. I was laughing with mates at work today that apart from winning a GF, the next best prize in footy nowdays is pick 1!!!
(I wouldn't be surprised if Scott 'outcoaches' Fagan and we win by under a goal this week....oh the irony if this happens).
 
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