Stacked midfield

[baldandbroke]

After another media reference to our stacked midfield last week … made me want to check what we actually have in the squad.

Mids according to AFC website:

• ROB (edit)
• Keays
• Crouch
• Hately
• Sloane
• Seedsman
• Soligo
• Cook
• Taylor
• Berry
• Shoenberg
• Nankervis
• Laird
• Sholl
• Turner

Compared to Melbourne website:

• Gawn / Jackson (edit)
• Harms
• Petracca
• Viney
• Oliver
• Langdon
• Laurie
• Howes
• Jordan
• Dunstan
• Sparrow
• Baker
• Woewodin

Now my first observation was how few of the Melbourne “mids” outside of the household names I knew!!

Line up the two current “best 22” mids groups alongside each other … the glaring issue is the one everyone bangs on about. Star power.

Laird vs Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Langdon

Ouch.

I love the look of what is coming through, I can see the future midfield of the Crows looking waaaaay better than what we have had in the last few years. Berry, Soligo, Taylor and Shoenberg look the goods to me.

Would love to add a Hollands or Thomas as a point of difference … as unlikely as that is.

If we don’t add anyone of note to the midfield via the draft / trade … Is there even a slim chance that we look back and say “Holy crap, we were stacked!!” ?

Or will we just bemoan the missed opportunities to cash in on the great looking forward setup?

 

[Jetafl]

It all depends on your ''definition of stacked'' you could say our midfield is staked with players.

Keeping it simple my definition of stacked is (stacked with quality and or a couple of elite guns). So, for me if we had Oliver and Petracca in our midfield, I think stacked is an accurate description. For Rendell to call our midfield stacked is talking out of school. As you need a gun midfield to win the GF we are such a long way from that.

 

[baldandbroke]

It all depends on your ''definition of stacked'' you could say our midfield is staked with players.

Keeping it simple my definition of stacked is (stacked with quality and or a couple of elite guns). So, for me if we had Oliver and Petracca in our midfield, I think stacked is an accurate description. For Rendell to call our midfield stacked is talking out of school. As you need a gun midfield to win the GF we are such a long way from that.

We aren’t talking about quantity.

Stacked in this discussion means - how does it stack up.

 

[DaKids]

I would add the big blokes to that list. Gawn and Thilthorpe

 

[1970crow]

Our continuity strategy for our midfield is our primary issue. Believing a 4 man group is the way to go is a perpetual handicap we impose upon ourselves. Even if we had better soldiers in there, they’re always going to be outgunned. It then makes it impossible for the key holders to be bypassed. How does a talented kid get more minutes when they’re getting none to start with. We don’t rotate properly.

 

[DaKids]

Our continuity strategy for our midfield is our primary issue. Believing a 4 man group is the way to go is a perpetual handicap we impose upon ourselves. Even if we had better soldiers in there, they’re always going to be outgunned. It then makes it impossible for the key holders to be bypassed. How does a talented kid get more minutes when they’re getting none to start with. We don’t rotate properly.

Don’t normally see AFL live but went and had a look at that North Melbourne game the Crows played.

Watched young Soligo because I think he’ll be a quality player. As I saw it that kid had time as a forward, time on the wing and time in middle including at the bounce down. Liquorice all sorts but he’d be used to that. They are all taught that now.

Not meaning to start a blue that’s not my go but just letting you know what I saw.

 

[1970crow]

Don’t normally see AFL live but went and had a look at that North Melbourne game the Crows played.

Watched young Soligo because I think he’ll be a quality player. As I saw it that kid had time as a forward, time on the wing and time in middle including at the bounce down. Liquorice all sorts but he’d be used to that. They are all taught that now.

Not meaning to start a blue that’s not my go but just letting you know what I saw.

Yeh, we saw Rachelle light it up for a quarter at one point too. But we revert back to our 4 man system very quickly.

 

[Ramify]

Our continuity strategy for our midfield is our primary issue. Believing a 4 man group is the way to go is a perpetual handicap we impose upon ourselves. Even if we had better soldiers in there, they’re always going to be outgunned. It then makes it impossible for the key holders to be bypassed. How does a talented kid get more minutes when they’re getting none to start with. We don’t rotate properly.

We haven't rotated properly for 15 years. I don't understand what the common denominator is considering how we have rotated Coaching staff over that period.

In saying that, it did seem as though we mixed it up a bit more in the back half of this season. Not sure if that is premeditated rotation policy or a Coaching group bereft of ideas.Still a long way to go.

 

[1970crow]

We haven't rotated properly for 15 years. I don't understand what the common denominator is considering how we have rotated Coaching staff over that period.

In saying that, it did seem as though we mixed it up a bit more in the back half of this season. Still a long way to go though.

Round 1 will be interesting. Historically we’ve tended to forget lessons learned during the recent season over the 5 months of wearing sneakers. I won’t be surprised to see our opening bounce midfield be a mix of crouch, Sloane, Laird and Keays.

 

[Ramify]

Round 1 will be interesting. Historically we’ve tended to forget lessons learned during the recent season over the 5 months of wearing sneakers. I won’t be surprised to see our opening bounce midfield be a mix of crouch, Sloane, Laird and Keays.

Bookmark this!

I'm not expecting any different.
If Sloane starts on a flank, Crouch out of the Team and only one of Laird/Keayes at the bounce, I'll be overwhelmed with joy and feel a tiny sense of belief creep in.

 

[Ramify]

I seriously believe we need a new Ruck Coach asap.

 

[Mutineer]

I seriously believe we need a new Ruck Coach asap.

No, we need to draft and develop one that's not a rookie draftee or from the State Leagues. Give the man a decent athlete to work with for a change. Both Rob and Strachan are exceptional for where they came from.

 

[footy4ever]

Round 1 will be interesting. Historically we’ve tended to forget lessons learned during the recent season over the 5 months of wearing sneakers. I won’t be surprised to see our opening bounce midfield be a mix of crouch, Sloane, Laird and Keays.

I just shuddered. Thank you for ruining Saturday.

 

[FR0GGY]

Is there any where for CBA stats for the whole year?

 

[Ramify]

No, we need to draft and develop one that's not a rookie draftee or from the State Leagues. Give the man a decent athlete to work with for a change. Both Rob and Strachan are exceptional for where they came from.

Meh, that's a Cop out.

You believe ROBs ruckwork is good?
I'd say that all he has going for him is his natural athletic ability,because his Ruck craft is as basic if not worse than the first AFL game he played.

So is it, that due to where he was recruited ROB is just dumb and has no capacity to learn/improve,or is it Docs job to only get them up to a level and then set them on their way?

How did you view Jacobs Ruck work? Did it get better/more wiley over the course, or progressively worse when compared to guys like Goldstein,Gawn,Mumford,Maric etc?
I'm talking purely Ruck Craft.

Compare ROB to kids from other teams that have and will zoom past him and tell me what it is about ROB that he's shown almost no improvement with his ruckwork and has arguably gone backward since debut?
Or do you argue that he's improved in this area?
I can almost guarantee that ROB adds the Jacobs patented early Jump and stick method to his trick bag this comming season and that will be him done.

To me this all comes down to Coaching.

Take away both organic improvement based on AFL level training/fitness and the Ruck craft these players arrive at the club with and what do you see?
All I see is lessons in watching the opposite Ruckman, finding early touch and then wack the ball indiscriminately forward as hard as possible. None of the Ruck tricks Doc himself employed to great effect as a player. Why?

Freaks like NicNat are rare, so that generally leaves Big blokes that rely on their tanks, their smarts and Coaching to become good Ruckmen. ROB seem to be both clever and blessed with a good Tank, so what's he missing?

 

[1970crow]

Meh, that's a Cop out.

You believe ROBs ruckwork is good?
I'd say that all he has going for him is his natural athletic ability,because his Ruck craft is as basic if not worse than the first AFL game he played.

So is it, that due to where he was recruited ROB is just dumb and has no capacity to learn/improve,or is it Docs job to only get them up to a level and then set them on their way?

How did you view Jacobs Ruck work? Did it get better/more wiley over the course, or progressively worse when compared to guys like Goldstein,Gawn,Mumford,Maric etc?
I'm talking purely Ruck Craft.

Compare ROB to kids from other teams that have and will zoom past him and tell me what it is about ROB that he's shown almost no improvement with his ruckwork and has arguably gone backward since debut?
Or do you argue that he's improved in this area?
I can almost guarantee that ROB adds the Jacobs patented early Jump and stick method to his trick bag this comming season and that will be him done.

To me this all comes down to Coaching.

Take away both organic improvement based on AFL level training/fitness and the Ruck craft these players arrive at the club with and what do you see?
All I see is lessons in watching the opposite Ruckman, finding early touch and then wack the ball indiscriminately forward as hard as possible. None of the Ruck tricks Doc himself employed to great effect as a player. Why?

Freaks like NicNat are rare, so that generally leaves Big blokes that rely on their tanks, their smarts and Coaching to become good Ruckmen. ROB seem to be both clever and blessed with a good Tank, so what's he missing?

It’s weird how we’ve had back to back ruckman that thrive on continuity and huge workload.

 

[Mutineer]

Meh, that's a Cop out.

You believe ROBs ruckwork is good?
I'd say that all he has going for him is his natural athletic ability,because his Ruck craft is as basic if not worse than the first AFL game he played.

So is it, that due to where he was recruited ROB is just dumb and has no capacity to learn/improve,or is it Docs job to only get them up to a level and then set them on their way?

How did you view Jacobs Ruck work? Did it get better/more wiley over the course, or progressively worse when compared to guys like Goldstein,Gawn,Mumford,Maric etc?
I'm talking purely Ruck Craft.

Compare ROB to kids from other teams that have and will zoom past him and tell me what it is about ROB that he's shown almost no improvement with his ruckwork and has arguably gone backward since debut?
Or do you argue that he's improved in this area?
I can almost guarantee that ROB adds the Jacobs patented early Jump and stick method to his trick bag this comming season and that will be him done.

To me this all comes down to Coaching.

Take away both organic improvement based on AFL level training/fitness and the Ruck craft these players arrive at the club with and what do you see?
All I see is lessons in watching the opposite Ruckman, finding early touch and then wack the ball indiscriminately forward as hard as possible. None of the Ruck tricks Doc himself employed to great effect as a player. Why?

Freaks like NicNat are rare, so that generally leaves Big blokes that rely on their tanks, their smarts and Coaching to become good Ruckmen. ROB seem to be both clever and blessed with a good Tank, so what's he missing?

The best rucks have some semblance of athleticism...

Jacobs for a lot of his career was in the top 2 or 3 rucks in the AFL.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[hugecannon]

It’s weird how we’ve had back to back ruckman that thrive on continuity and huge workload.

Or we just work them into the ground over the course of the season/career and hit a massive wall at 30 like so many of players.

Maybe we should change our approach to players………

 

[1970crow]

Or we just work them into the ground over the course of the season/career and hit a massive wall at 30 like so many of players.

Maybe we should change our approach to players………

Brown pushed through his leg issues through a spoon and 2 bottom 5 finishes. Why? What is the gain that outweighs the cost there? Talia cost himself the final 2 years of a career playing with a torn meniscus in a spoon year followed by a shortened preseason that he wanted to have him RTG for round 1.

We’re rebuilding and yet we’re still playing injured players instead of looking at our list while they get themselves right. It’s insanity.

 

[FR0GGY]

I would just like a ruckman that can actually jump.

 

[Slippery Pete]

It all depends on your ''definition of stacked''

Christina Hendricks

 

[Slippery Pete]

Also how good is it that ”huge cannon” liked my last post?

 

[Rags_118]

No, we need to draft and develop one that's not a rookie draftee or from the State Leagues. Give the man a decent athlete to work with for a change. Both Rob and Strachan are exceptional for where they came from.

Dean Cox was truly exceptional from Pick 28 in the Rookie Draft, not sure these 2 boys have 30% of his ability.

Arguably the only true A-Grade ruckman that we have ever had was Shaun Rehn and he was severely curtailed by 3 ACLs. Former Carlton rookie Sam Jacobs was A-/B+ being very good for us over an extended period.

David Pittman was a B/B- and Matt Clarke had A+ tapping skills but C-Grade everything else. Rhett Biglands was a C trier who played hard, his loss to an ACL during the 2006 PF showed his importance to the team in the mid 2000s.

Others who had short-term moments included Ben Hudson, Ivan Maric, Shaun Marsh, an over the hill Mark Mickan and of course Trent Ormond-Allen!

If we had drafted Tim English in 2016 as advised instead of Jordan Gallucci for his speed, maybe we would be happy now (after harshly criticising him during his first 4 years of development)?

 

[Slippery Pete]

Dean Cox was truly exceptional from Pick 28 in the Rookie Draft, not sure these 2 boys have 30% of his ability.

Arguably the only true A-Grade ruckman that we have ever had was Shaun Rehn and he was severely curtailed by 3 ACLs. Former Carlton rookie Sam Jacobs was A-/B+ being very good for us over an extended period.

David Pittman was a B/B- and Matt Clarke had A+ tapping skills but C-Grade everything else. Rhett Biglands was a C trier who played hard, his loss to an ACL during the 2006 PF showed his importance to the team in the mid 2000s.

Others who had short-term moments included Ben Hudson, Ivan Maric, Shaun Marsh, an over the hill Mark Mickan and of course Trent Ormond-Allen!

If we had drafted Tim English in 2016 as advised instead of Jordan Gallucci for his speed, maybe we would be happy now (after harshly criticising him during his first 4 years of development)?

Most of this is right.

Pittman was better than Jacobs though.

 

[SugarShane]

I always thought the usage of "stacked" to refer to our midfield was in a Full Metal Jacket sort of way.