Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Malifice]

So what? Does not the same apply to someone turning up at Heathrow from os without a valid visa? They can still (and do) get deported.

What if they claim asylum? Isnt that refoulment and a contravention of international law by the UK? So you as a 'libertarian' are OK with... the State breaking the law?

Heard of the Rule of Law Meds?

If you want to refoul asylum seekers, at least repudiate the treaty.

At least I have finally gotten you to agree that asylum seekers havent broken any laws (either domestically or internationally) by arriving with no documentation on boats.

 

[medusala]

What if they claim asylum? Isnt that refoulment and a contravention of international law by the UK? So you as a 'libertarian' are OK with... the State breaking the law?

Good luck trying to claim asylum as an Australian (see safe country of origin) And not that wouldn't be refoulement

As someone who is meant to be a lawyer you seem awfully wobbly on the topic

I don't think many libertarians have much time for supra national imposed undemocratic law.

Heard of the Rule of Law Meds?

What law says Australia has a duty to process such illegal immigrants? Then accept their relatives?

Which law school did you go to?

 

[Malifice]

I don't think many libertarians have much time for supra national imposed undemocratic law.

How is it imposed? The British monarch and elected head of the elected Lower house entered into it via a treaty.

Unless youre suggesting that the State shouldnt have the power to enter into treaties?

What law says Australia has a duty to process such illegal immigrants?

Illegal entrants. At least get the name right.

The Conventions on refugees ratified by the Commonwealth. It imposes obligations on State parties who are signatories to treat Asylum seekers certain ways, and afford them certain rights, regardless of how they have entered the States territory.

If we dont want to process refugees and asylum seekers then we can just repudiate the treaty. We havent.

 

[pokerspiv]

Maxy loves asking questions in this thread, the same questions over and over when you question his compassion..

Maybe if you could ever answer his question, he'd stop asking it.

 

[pokerspiv]

But open borders would solve this as well. If people were able to move freely around the globe they wouldn't have to take passages that involved the most risk. So quit trying to take the moral high ground. If Australia had open borders, everyone would jump on a plane here and no one would get on a boat anywhere. Not even the Mediterranean.

If Australia had open borders, the population of Australia would go from 25 million to hundreds of millions in a very short time span. How would you deal with that?

Note that if we opened our borders unilaterally, we would be the only country with open borders, so we'd be the only option for most of the world.

 

[Maggie5]

Maybe if you could ever answer his question, he'd stop asking it.

How far back did you go to quote this? How is this relevant?
On a losing streak are you?

 

[Gough]

If Australia had open borders, the population of Australia would go from 25 million to hundreds of millions in a very short time span. How would you deal with that?

Very short time span? How long would it take for one hundred and seventy five million folk to "flood" into Australia? Laughable.

 

[pokerspiv]

Very short time span? How long would it take for one hundred and seventy five million folk to "flood" into Australia? Laughable.

Not very long.

You seem incapable of grasping the concept that there are hundreds of millions of people out there who would jump at the chance to move to a western country. If Australia was to unilaterally open borders there would be a flood.

 

[Gough]

You seem incapable of grasping just how many people one hundred million people is, or that Australia will never just open our borders.

 

[Xsess]

You seem incapable of grasping just how many people one hundred million people is, or that Australia will never just open our borders.

Yet you advocate open borders?

 

[pokerspiv]

You seem incapable of grasping just how many people one hundred million people is, or that Australia will never just open our borders.

So now your argument is that open borders is a good idea because we'd never do it?

 

[Gough]

I've only ever argued that we should have a fair and humane system which respects the rights of asylum seekers and our obligations under the UNHCR. As it stands neither side in politic seems capable of delivering it.

 

[pokerspiv]

I've only ever argued that we should have a fair and humane system which respects the rights of asylum seekers and our obligations under the UNHCR. As it stands neither side in politic seems capable of delivering it.

Of course neither side of politics is capable of delivering what you want, because the refugee advocates definition of "fair and humane" is basically "immediately grant every person a visa".

 

[Todman]

12-02-2015 - This statement provides an update on Operation Sovereign Borders (OSB) activities related to the off-water reception and processing of illegal maritime arrivals.

The reporting period is from 1 January 2015 to 31 January 2015.

During this reporting period there were no illegal maritime arrivals transferred to Australian Immigration authorities and there were no illegal maritime arrivals transferred to regional processing centres (RPC).

One illegal maritime arrival detainee was voluntarily removed to Iran from an RPC and three illegal maritime arrival detainees were involuntarily removed to Sri Lanka and Vietnam. Their removal from Australia is consistent with Australia's obligations.

As at 31 January 2015, there was a total of 1023 people in Manus Island RPC and 802 people in Nauru RPC.

As at 31 January 2015, of the 209 Refugee Status Interim Determination assessments at Manus Island, 105 were positive and 104 were negative. Of the 512 Refugee Status Determination hand downs in Nauru, 432 were positive and 80 were negative.

On 19 January 2015, Malaysian authorities disrupted a maritime venture. The people indicated that they had transited through South-East Asia to board an illegal boat trip to Malaysia.

On 25 January 2015, Sri Lankan authorities arrested a man in relation to the alleged facilitation of a people smuggling venture that was disrupted in Negombo on 21 August 2012. This disruption involved a vessel which intended to travel to Australia with 72 potential illegal immigrants on board. The man is in remand pending the outcome of his first court appearance.

 

[Todman]

214 days without a boat arrival. 27/7/14 to 25/2/15

 

[Xsess]

214 days without a boat arrival. 27/7/14 to 25/2/15

Thanks goodness Jillian Triggs had the foresight to launch an investigation into kids in detention when she did, if she'd delayed any further there'd be no kids left in detention.

 

[Malifice]

As at 31 January 2015, of the 209 Refugee Status Interim Determination assessments at Manus Island, 105 were positive and 104 were negative. Of the 512 Refugee Status Determination hand downs in Nauru, 432 were positive and 80 were negative.

So 537 out of 721 were found to be genuine refugees?

 

[Footy Smarts]

214 days without a boat arrival. 27/7/14 to 25/2/15

Good to know the problem of asylum seekers drowning at sea has been solved and we haven't just pushed the issue elsewhere.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/at-leas...at-heading-towards-italy-20150210-13a77f.html

 

[Xsess]

Good to know the problem of asylum seekers drowning at sea has been solved and we haven't just pushed the issue elsewhere.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/at-leas...at-heading-towards-italy-20150210-13a77f.html

The "open borders" carnage in Italy replicates the "open borders" carnage we experienced.

Yet the left still claim high moral ground on this issue?

 

[Footy Smarts]

The "open borders" carnage in Italy replicates the "open borders" carnage we experienced.

Yet the left still claim high moral ground on this issue?

And when everybody mimics our border policy no asylum seekers die at sea. They just die in the hell-whole they would otherwise be trying to escape or in the hell-whole set up to imprison them if they try. Problem solved

 

[romeoh]

214 days without a boat arrival. 27/7/14 to 25/2/15

Yep-but what is your assumption here? That there are no more people seeking asylum? That there are no more refugees? That the global refugee problem is solved? Is that it Toddy?
Or is there more to it?

 

[Xsess]

Yep-but what is your assumption here?

That our current highly generous refugee resettlement scheme is now 100% targetted at genuine refugees?

That no one is drowning?

That fewer people are entering indefinate detention?

That we are saving a shiite load of moolah?

 

[Play by Numbers]

Her evidence at the commission contradicts that. Well some of it. She contradicts herself. She claims that she first decided in February 2013 to hold the enquiry in 2014 but didn't act on it because of an 'upcoming election' - September 2014. She accepts that during this period the numbers of children in detention were rising, like they had been for all of the period of previous Labor governments. 40% in the period of her administration to Feb 2013.

Then she claims that after the election she didn't request the enquiry immediately because she wanted to give time for the government to adjust its policies. During this period of assessment of the new government the numbers of children in detention decreased by 30%. Only then did she request the enquiry! The conspiracy is that the timing of the report was NOT politically motivated.

You do realise it wasn't an inquiry to begin with and that it was initially Howard who picked both the direction and timing of a report. 2013 was supposed to be the start date, however the election meant Triggs delayed the process. Which was sensible.

None of the findings are being disputed and the general direction and timing was put in place before Trigg and to mark the 10 year anniversary of the commission.

The libs have been part of the process at every step and never complained about the timing, scope or the transition to an inquiry until they knew the findings would be detailed and accurate. Its nothing but a distraction.

 

[romeoh]

That our current highly generous refugee resettlement scheme is now 100% targetted at genuine refugees?

That no one is drowning?

That fewer people are entering indefinate detention?

That we are saving a shiite load of moolah?

Actually its costing us billions-5 or 6 so far, and counting to 'stop the boats' Xeey. I 'd call that a lot of moolah spent, not saved.
Our refugee resettlement scheme is mingy, not generous-read the numbers properly.
Most of those resettled do in fact turn out to be genuine refugees, so not sure what your point is there.
People aren't drowning in our waters. Instead they are drowning elsewhere of leading terrible lives by staying put-these desperate people who were prepared to risk they lives, maybe now they just accept that their children will not have a hope of a better life?
Good on us.

 

[Todman]

Actually its costing us billions-5 or 6 so far, and counting to 'stop the boats' Xeey. I 'd call that a lot of moolah spent, not saved.
Our refugee resettlement scheme is mingy, not generous-read the numbers properly.
Most of those resettled do in fact turn out to be genuine refugees, so not sure what your point is there.
People aren't drowning in our waters. Instead they are drowning elsewhere of leading terrible lives by staying put-these desperate people who were prepared to risk they lives, maybe now they just accept that their children will not have a hope of a better life?
Good on us.

And to think Juliar used to complain because Howard spent a $1 billion.