News Suns to ask for Pick 1 as a priority pick

[Blackas87]

Yeah. It's inevitable they should (and will) get one.

I think they qualify for the Unique Circumstances to receive one, even if admittedly a lot of it it self-inflicted
.

They really need to get some experienced leaders into the club before the AFL gives them an extra 18 year old prospect

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

They really need to get some experienced leaders into the club before the AFL gives them an extra 18 year old prospect

Yes, but due to being raided on so many elite talent on their list, they deserve another top draft pick.

 

[Blackas87]

Yes, but due to being raided on so many elite talent on their list, they deserve another top draft pick.

So that top draft pick can get raided as well?

The club needs strong leadership and a culture that these top prospects won’t leave like everyone has.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

no priority picks should be given before pick 18. Every club should have a chance to make a selection before any priority picks.

 

[RUNVS]

no priority picks should be given before pick 18. Every club should have a chance to make a selection before any priority picks.

To be honest I would happily give Gold Coast 2 priority picks at the end of the first round, so give them picks 19 and 20. Those are some good picks and can be used for some good young players.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

So that top draft pick can get raided as well?

The club needs strong leadership and a culture that these top prospects won’t leave like everyone has.

Their leadership is fine. They need better players. Hope will help retention.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

no priority picks should be given before pick 18. Every club should have a chance to make a selection before any priority picks.

That is rich coming from a Hawks fan.

Maybe if clubs like Hawthorn stopped raiding the Expansion/Interstate clubs for talent, teams like Gold Coast wouldn't need a priority pick.a

 

[Sonny Hayes]

That is rich coming from a Hawks fan.

Maybe if clubs like Hawthorn stopped raiding the Expansion/Interstate clubs for talent, teams like Gold Coast wouldn't need a priority pick.a

It’s not rich at all, it’s a competition mate...

They like 17 other clubs have to build a list to compete for a premiership. Other clubs have managed to rebuild successfully.

I have no issue with the AFL helping the Suns get back on their feet but I think all clubs should have a chance to make a pick at the Draft before any free picks are awarded.

 

[Blackas87]

Their leadership is fine. They need better players. Hope will help retention.

Their leadership is woeful. They need to get someone in like Brisbane did with Hodge.

They have good talented players in King, Wright, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Day, Swallow, Martin, Ah Chee, Bowes, Brodie. That’s 10 players currently on their list draft by the Suns in the top 10. These guys have never had good leaders to look up to.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Their leadership is woeful. They need to get someone in like Brisbane did with Hodge.

They have good talented players in King, Wright, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Day, Swallow, Martin, Ah Chee, Bowes, Brodie. That’s 10 players currently on their list draft by the Suns in the top 10. These guys have never had good leaders to look up to.

Witts, Miller, Harbrow, Swallow are fine leaders, no worse than what Melbourne have. Secondly there is no other Hodge.

Leadership isn't about experience, it's about professionalism which can manifest it's at any time. Rowell and Anderson are better leaders than anyone they could attract otherwise.

 

[Blackas87]

Witts, Miller, Harbrow, Swallow are fine leaders, no worse than what Melbourne have.

Exactly they need better leadership. Only Harbrow has played in a final out of that bunch and the last one was in 2010. Those guys don’t know what it takes to win. They aren’t teaching the talented youngsters what it takes to get into the finals because those guys haven’t done it themselves.

Melbourne’s leadership is terrible this year, go read the captaincy thread on the Melbourne board.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

They really need to get some experienced leaders into the club before the AFL gives them an extra 18 year old prospect

They can do both. It won't be that difficult to get in a few old heads this summer, especially if the AFL give them cap concessions to do so. They're already chasing Shaun Burgoyne hard. The problem is that nobody who is both experienced and still good, not severely aging, wants go to the Suns, because those players want to compete for a premiership. How do you propose to solve that issue?

That is rich coming from a Hawks fan.

Particularly since Hawthorn did very well out of priority picks to start the first round, helped set up their flag run. I don't know why people moan so much about the prospect when several clubs benefited from the same arrangement, except back then it was a lot easier to get your hands on a beginning of first round priority pick. Probably because it's Gold Coast who are easy to beat up on, even though they deserve it more than any of those clubs did last decade.

I certainly won't shed a tear for Melbourne if they're pushed back since they were the last club to feather their nest from such a generous arrangement.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Exactly they need better leadership. Only Harbrow has played in a final out of that bunch and the last one was in 2010. Those guys don’t know what it takes to win. They aren’t teaching the talented youngsters what it takes to get into the finals because those guys haven’t done it themselves.

Melbourne’s leadership is terrible this year, go read the captaincy thread on the Melbourne board.

Think pragmatically. Hodge to Brisbane is a scenario that won't likely happen again. Firstly you need the Fagan connection to tempt the player, secondly you need the mature player to stay fit. Have a look at McVeigh his body is cooked and will likely be the case for a lot of mature types looking for a retirement package. It's impossible to fabricate and is entire based on timing. Rowell and Anderson can be fabricated and they will immediately improve the leadership talent on their list.

 

[Blackas87]

Exactly they need better leadership. Only Harbrow has played in a final out of that bunch and the

They can do both. It won't be that difficult to get in a few old heads this summer, especially if the AFL give them cap concessions to do so. They're already chasing Shaun Burgoyne hard. The problem is that nobody who is both experienced and still good, not severely aging, wants go to the Suns, because those players want to compete for a premiership. How do you propose to solve that issue?

I didn’t say they can’t do both.

GWS got James McDonald, Luke Power, Chad Cornes and Dean Brogan in one year

Melbourne got Daniel Cross, Bernie Vince and Jordan Lewis before they got back in the finals.

Brisbane got Hodge.

Surely Gold Coast can go after a number of experienced players not just Burgoyne. Get a few in.

 

[Peel67skin]

Their leadership is woeful. They need to get someone in like Brisbane did with Hodge.

They have good talented players in King, Wright, Lukosius, Ainsworth, Day, Swallow, Martin, Ah Chee, Bowes, Brodie. That’s 10 players currently on their list draft by the Suns in the top 10. These guys have never had good leaders to look up to.

Before Hodge Brisbane did get priority pick, and trade pick 2 in exchange for pick 3 and Berry+ priority pick in 2016 draft. rayner is also pick 1. GCS lost May, Lynch and replace with Lukosius and King with mature age top up Collins and Corbett as backup.

 

[Blackas87]

Think pragmatically. Hodge to Brisbane is a scenario that won't likely happen again. Firstly you need the Fagan connection to tempt the player, secondly you need the mature player to stay fit. Have a look at McVeigh his body is cooked and will likely be the case for a lot of mature types looking for a retirement package. It's impossible to fabricate and is entire based on timing. Rowell and Anderson can be fabricated and they will immediately improve the leadership talent on their list.

As I just said GWS got James McDonald, Luke Power, Chad Cornes and Dean Brogan.

Melbourne got Daniel Cross, Vince and Lewis

Brisbane got Hodge.

Players don’t want to retire, they are usually forced into it with no other options. Give them an option and they will go. Most of those players above were also said to be cooked, but it’s what they teach the young players on training standards and how to win is way more valuable than out put on the Football field.

Suns could go after Burgoyne, McVeigh, Nathan Jones, Eddie Betts, Roughead, I’m sure that there are a number of others.

But if they don’t have leaders, the kids aren’t going to develop into anything special

 

[Blackas87]

Before Hodge Brisbane did get priority pick, and trade pick 2 in exchange for pick 3 and Berry. Let's not blindly talk about Priority pick.

Did I say they didn’t get one?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I didn’t say they can’t do both.

You didn't, however you did say they should get experienced players "before the AFL gives them an extra 18 year old prospect" implying they don't deserve a priority pick if they fail to get enough old farts in. Not every club can attract a Hodge, or every club would have done so.

Surely Gold Coast can go after a number of experienced players not just Burgoyne. Get a few in.

They are going after a number of experienced players, I'm sure. They went after Roughead last year and he said no. He may not be the only one who rejects them.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

As I just said GWS got James McDonald, Luke Power, Chad Cornes and Dean Brogan.

Melbourne got Daniel Cross, Vince and Lewis

Brisbane got Hodge.

Players don’t want to retire, they are usually forced into it with no other options. Give them an option and they will go. Most of those players above were also said to be cooked, but it’s what they teach the young players on training standards and how to win is way more valuable than out put on the Football field.

Suns could go after Burgoyne, McVeigh, Nathan Jones, Eddie Betts, Roughead, I’m sure that there are a number of others.

But if they don’t have leaders, the kids aren’t going to develop into anything special

None of those leaders saw success under their teams. Hodge is the only one who saw actual growth, the rest is anecdotal.

Burgoyne is the only player there that would actually be in their best 22 and even he is a cherry on top type player rather than a foundation block. Pretty useless leaders if you're keeping more talented players out.

 

[Blackas87]

You didn't, however you did say they should get experienced players "before the AFL gives them an extra 18 year old prospect" implying they don't deserve a priority pick if they fail to get enough old farts in. Not every club can attract a Hodge, or every club would have done so.


They are going after a number of experienced players, I'm sure. They went after Roughead last year and he said no. He may not be the only one who rejects them.

Yeah I don’t think they should be given more young talent without the right leadership. The AFL shouldn’t just give picks out just because a team has been losing for years. They get plenty of top picks in those losing years, why do they need another one? There is a reason they keep losing year after year, why is that with all the top picks they get? They have a big leadership problem, address that and they can an extra young talented prospect to fast track the teams improvement up the ladder.

Same thing happened at Melbourne, we had a heap of top draft picks 07-13 and got rid of all our leaders, James McDonald, Cam Bruce, Yze, White, Robertson and our talented prospects turned out to be nothing.

Not until we got some leaders in from outside of the club, Daniel Cross, Vince, Lewis that we were able to develop a team.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Suns could go after Burgoyne, McVeigh, Nathan Jones, Eddie Betts, Roughead, I’m sure that there are a number of others.

I agree with you they can use leaders, I'm just saying leaders who are still good enough to be best 22 aren't as easy to attract as you think.

Roughead already knocked them back. People like Betts who are from Adelaide and are settled there tend to be hard to attract away. People like Jones who are from Melbourne and are settled there tend to be hard to attract away. McVeigh is cooked, he already could barely get on the field due to injury and now he's announced his retirement. He isn't like Hodge who is still in good health. Burgoyne would be great but he's 36 and settled in Melbourne, will be hard to tempt away also.

The only players I can think of who are experienced, still best 22 and might be gettable for the Suns are JPK and Mundy. They're who I would be targeting.

 

[Blackas87]

None of those leaders saw success under their teams. Hodge is the only one who saw actual growth, the rest is anecdotal.

Burgoyne is the only player there that would actually be in their best 22 and even he is a cherry on top type player rather than a foundation block. Pretty useless leaders if you're keeping more talented players out.

They didn’t see the ultimate success but they all played finals and know what it takes to get there.

The Suns need to get out of the bottom 4 before they think about the ultimate success. All those players would help

 

[Blackas87]

I agree with you they can use leaders, I'm just saying leaders who are still good enough to be best 22 aren't as easy to attract as you think.

Roughead already knocked them back. People like Betts who are from Adelaide and are settled there tend to be hard to attract away. People like Jones who are from Melbourne and are settled there tend to be hard to attract away. McVeigh is cooked, he already could barely get on the field due to injury and now he's announced his retirement. He isn't like Hodge who is still in good health. Burgoyne would be great but he's 36 and settled in Melbourne, will be hard to tempt away also.

The only players I can think of who are experienced, still best 22 and might be gettable for the Suns are JPK and Mundy. They're who I would be targeting.

I’m sure there are a number of players they could target, every year there are plenty of retirements. JPK and Mundy would be great for them.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

They didn’t see the ultimate success but they all played finals and know what it takes to get there.

The Suns need to get out of the bottom 4 before they think about the ultimate success. All those players would help

I just don’t see the value in it if they aren’t still playing AFL standard football. It works fine for Hodge because that loose man role that doesn’t demand at lot of running still exists.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yeah I don’t think they should be given more young talent without the right leadership.

And who's to say who "the right leadership" is? The Suns started with Fraser, Brennan, Bock, Campbell Brown, Rischitelli, Harbrow and Ablett. Didn't do them a lot of good, even with Harbrow and Rischitelli sticking around to this day. Not all veterans are capable leaders.

The AFL shouldn’t just give picks out just because a team has been losing for years.

What are you talking about, that's precisely how the draft works! The poorest performing teams get the highest picks. Those who have been losing for years can get priority picks, most recently Brisbane in 2016. Victorian teams benefited immensely from beginning of first round priority picks, yet their fans all raise hell when a non-Victorian team wants one, even if they need it more.

They get plenty of top picks in those losing years, why do they need another one?

Because those talented players leave. Interstate teams, chiefly Victorian ones, keep pinching their players. Leadership isn't a cure for all problems if the talent isn't there to begin with. And this year in particular, since the top two prospects are best friends, getting both of them will assist in retaining them.

Not until we got some leaders in from outside of the club, Daniel Cross, Vince, Lewis that we were able to develop a team.

Melbourne have the advantage of being located in Melbourne and playing at the MCG. Easier to attract players with those advantages, particularly Victorian players.