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Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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katana said:
he has no tools, is slow, and soft. like surely we can do better... how is this a controversial opinion?

wouldn't we like to find a small forward who's quick and/or can mark and/or is particularly evasive? or worst-case have a crack at another pick 50-ish and end up with the same thing? why is saying cahill has no talent beyond the average afl draftee a bad take? all of them have "talent". that's how they get there.
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He is not soft. Slow yes and limited X factor for a small forward but not soft .
 
Happy to see the back side of Gleeson and Cutler. Cutler can stay on as depth if need be but we need to upgrade even the depth at those spots
 
katana said:
he has no tools, is slow, and soft. like surely we can do better... how is this a controversial opinion?

wouldn't we like to find a small forward who's quick and/or can mark and/or is particularly evasive? or worst-case have a crack at another pick 50-ish and end up with the same thing? why is saying cahill has no talent beyond the average afl draftee a bad take? all of them have "talent". that's how they get there.
Click to expand...
Nothing controversial here mate. Many would agree with you.
I don't rate his chances of making it, and agree he has no standout traits. But I think he will get another year. We just don't have small forward depth, and when we pick one up this year, they'll be taking Mozzie's place.
Think he's a place holder for Davey in 22.
 
eth-dog said:
Seriously, that's a terrible take. He clearly has talent. Great tank, finds the ball and is a great kick both in the field and for goal.

But of course, 20 years old and no Brownlow means he's sh*t. Guess we could be like Port Adelaide with Snelling.
Click to expand...
Averages 70% TOG this season so I wouldn't call that a big tank. Also averages 7 touches, so I'm not sure if that constitutes great at finding the ball. Do we have enough of a sample size to objectively consider him a great field kick and kick for goal? I don't think so.

I agree in the sense he probably deserves another year, but I think you're putting a bit of mayo on his performances.
 

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What was our biggest issue yesterday? A non existent forward line. Yes we had injuries, that shows we have very little depth in that area.

Need to address that IMO.
 
Dave said:
What was our biggest issue yesterday? A non existent forward line. Yes we had injuries, that shows we have very little depth in that area.

Need to address that IMO.
Click to expand...

No crumbers. Lots of times the Dogs defenders spoiled the ball but we had no one there to collect it at ground level to create a scoring opportunity.

Tippungwuti is our only genuine crumbing small in that way. The one that can read the ball and know where to be at ground level, and where the goals are when the collect the ball.

Snelling & Smith are 'ok' but aren't really the crumbers in that sense.

Mosquito showed it, but who knows whether he's going on or not. Definitely need some depth in that small forward type who has genuine forward craft as opposed to the hard-working Snelling types that roll up the field from half-forward.
 
scoreboard impact was one element.
admittedly missing 3 crucial cogs there - Tippa as a crumbing small/pressure forward, Jones as a second tall target & Langford as a goal scoring mid.
We need depth in these areas, or players working on that part of the game
Perkins and Cox are two ideal candidates.

Add to that, run and dash off HB. Gleeson is fine defensively, he doesn't cover the gap McKenna and Saad left the way Hine does.

Macrae had one of his better games where he was able to find the ball and deny us. We also swarm in close whilst sitting the defence back to pick off balls. It's a hybrid Richmond system made for 2021, but does have a tendency to allow medium space between the contest and forward line.
Francis is ideal to guard that space.

KPF, Small forward and an elite impact mid (Parker would be amazing but how likely is it a leader leaves the Swans?)

On the latter, we just panicked yesterday. We don't play wet weather football smart, but even under pressure our F50 entries were sloppy.
Partially lack of personnel, but we did Wright, Stringer & Waterman few favours as well.
 
ant555 said:
He is not soft. Slow yes and limited X factor for a small forward but not soft .
Click to expand...

Agree he isn’t soft but he has similar physical tools to Snelling but doesn’t have his mongrel or ability to find the football.

I’m a big Snelling fan but I don’t really see how a guy who is seemingly a worse version of him ever makes it. As eth-dog pointed out we give pretty much every national drafted player at least 3 years so he’s a reasonable chance of getting another year.

Although Sean Gregory doesn’t fit your list of guys with professionalism problems who were failed to get offered offered a 3rd year.
 
Ambrosia said:
Agree he isn’t soft but he has similar physical tools to Snelling but doesn’t have his mongrel or ability to find the football.

I’m a big Snelling fan but I don’t really see how a guy who is seemingly a worse version of him ever makes it. As eth-dog pointed out we give pretty much every national drafted player at least 3 years so he’s a reasonable chance of getting another year.

Although Sean Gregory doesn’t fit your list of guys with professionalism problems who were failed to get offered offered a 3rd year.
Click to expand...
Forgot about him. He had persistent back issues as well
 
So list size limits as i understand it are as follows
Max of 44 (36-38 primary, 4-6 rookies plus 2 Cat B's).

We currently have 6 rookies on our list due to the MSD being Durham, Baldwin, Snelling, Clarke, Gleeson, Waterman and our two Cat Bs in Hird and McBride.

However we will have 33 senior listed players and at least 3 rookies if you assume the following
- Snelling to be upgraded
- Baldwin, Durham and Waterman being retained as rookies
- Including OOC players like Cutler, Cahill and Johnson until such time they are delisted
- we consider Zaharakis, Hooker, Ambrose and Mosquito goneski.

I think if we are looking to add a small forward and another midfielder to our senior list, we will need at least 4 spots (two traded in, two drafted, then Snelling upgraded as already considered to make mandatory 3 draft selections)

Cutler has probably earned another year.
I would consider then that Cahill, Johnson, Clarke and Gleeson contracts will stay in limbo until trade period is done. If we bring in some FA's or trade targets, their spots are likely in the gun.
If its a quiet one, we dont have a great draft hand and they are likely a chance.
 

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MiguelM said:
We need a small forward with pace.

Get Mozzie to commit or delist, big preseason for Tippa fitness wise.
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Sit tight! The Davey twins are coming.
 
Best 22 + depth

B N.Hind J.Stewart M.Redman
HB J.Ridley J.Laverde D.Heppell
C K.Langford Z.Merrett D.Shiel
HF J.Stringer H.Jones W.Snelling
F A.Tipungwutti P.Wright D.Smith
FOLL: S.Draper A.McGrath D.Parish
INTER: J.Caldwell, N.Cox, A.Perkins, S.Durham

Depth
B.Zerk-Thatcher, N.Bryan, M.Guelfi, T.Cutler,
D.Clarke, M.Gleeson, Z.Reid, A.Waterman,
B.Ham, C.Brand, J.Eyre, T.Hird, C.McBridge,
A.Phillips, K.Baldwin
 
katana said:
he has no tools, is slow, and soft. like surely we can do better... how is this a controversial opinion?

wouldn't we like to find a small forward who's quick and/or can mark and/or is particularly evasive? or worst-case have a crack at another pick 50-ish and end up with the same thing? why is saying cahill has no talent beyond the average afl draftee a bad take? all of them have "talent". that's how they get there.
Click to expand...
Port probably thought the same about Snelling, some guys take more than 2 years to develop. Plus they’ve literally had half a season of vfl in 2 years. Guys coming through the draft from Vic are going to be so underdeveloped it’s not funny, can’t hurt to give Cahill another full crack at it.
 
andleanback said:
Port probably thought the same about Snelling, some guys take more than 2 years to develop. Plus they’ve literally had half a season of vfl in 2 years. Guys coming through the draft from Vic are going to be so underdeveloped it’s not funny, can’t hurt to give Cahill another full crack at it.
Click to expand...

Snelling always was a gun state league player though. He looks like Lachie Neale at that level whereas Cahill looks like Snelling.

Happy to give him another year though as it doesn’t take much for guys with big tanks and good footy brains to find a niche at AFL
 

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Ambrosia said:
Snelling always was a gun state league player though. He looks like Lachie Neale at that level whereas Cahill looks like Snelling.

Happy to give him another year though as it doesn’t take much for guys with big tanks and good footy brains to find a niche at AFL
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How many actual vfl games has cahill got to play though 8-9? Come on thats hardly enough for development, yes snelling dominated sanfl but he wouldve played 50-60 sanfl games. Cahill has consistently performed well at vfl level without being outstanding and dominated the scratch matches last year.
 
I like the quality of our list at the moment, but I think there are four specific positions we need to look at. The question is, how do we address them?

Key Defender

Our key defensive stocks are interesting. Hurley may or may not go on, and Jimmy Stewart has been serviceable if not spectacular in the role. Zach Reid is obviously highly rated long term, but I feel like we're still one short here. A lot depends on how much we like Zerk-Thatcher in the mid term, and if we rate Brand long term. If it's a tick for both, I'd say we're ok and don't need to pursue this barring a best available draft pick. Conversely, if we're not sold on one or both, I might look to the trade table for some options in the 22-24yo range - I'm thinking Griffin Logue (contracted 2022) as an example, but what would really tickle my fancy? Collingwood still has some residual cap issues, and Darcy Moore is a free agent next year. Be very interested in that conversation, particularly because we're likely to be open to trading next years first rounder for the right deal. We'd have to pay through the nose, no doubt about it - but one of the few players I think is worth the expense.

Small Forward

Walla is great, but I feel we need another class small forward. The shame of it is, talent wise we probably had that in Mosquito, but I think odds are long indeed for him returning. The good thing about small forwards, is going to the draft and picking best available is a decent option - they can impact games from a young age. Having said that, I was interested to note reports we're interested in Malcolm Rosas who is uncontracted at Gold Coast next year. The cost would be minimal (if it took any currency at all). Admittedly I don't know a lot about him, but his draft profile makes for good reading. Classic free hit IMO, and I hope we get that deal done.

I'm not a fan of spending up big on small forwards (as they are classically hot and cold players) so thoughts of pursuing Rankine or the like is a hard no.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us have a dip at Keidean Coleman.

Midfielder

Here's the question - is Pidge going to be the guy? If so, our midfield on paper is there IMO, and we only need to replenish through the draft. Draper, Parish, Merrett, Shiel, Caldwell, McGrath, Stringer - it looks the goods. If we ultimately make the call we'd like to see Pidge off half back, then I think we're likely going to the trade / FA pool to see what we can get.

The Shiel trade SHOULD make us a bit gun shy here. The cost for Dunkley for example was absurd and should not be met. My gut feel is we back in what we have, and not get drawn in to another trade for a high end midfielder.

Key Forward

Look. We're all thinking it, we want Ben King. And yes, Gold Coast will want a metric **** ton of currency here. Can we get it done this year? The only way I see that happening is if we offload a player of significant value to accrue the necessary currency. One option? We could talk to Adelaide about Aaron Francis - there's some value to be had there - would offering up Francis and next years first net us Adelaide's 2022 first rounder and some late change (for points accrual purposes)? If you think about it, not a terrible deal for both parties. We'd then be offering up our first this year plus Adelaide's next year to Gold Coast in exchange for King.

Net result for the three clubs:

Essendon
In: King, Adelaide 2022 3rd round, Adelaide 2022 4th Rd
Out: Francis, Pick 11, 2022 1st Round Pick

Gold Coast
In: Pick 11, Adelaide 2022 1st Round
Out: King

Adelaide
In: Francis, Essendon 2022 1st Round
Out: 2022 1st Round, 2022 3rd Round, 2022 4th Round

Yes, we're paying BIG, but I'd say it's doable.
 
Jade said:
I like the quality of our list at the moment, but I think there are four specific positions we need to look at. The question is, how do we address them?

Key Defender

Our key defensive stocks are interesting. Hurley may or may not go on, and Jimmy Stewart has been serviceable if not spectacular in the role. Zach Reid is obviously highly rated long term, but I feel like we're still one short here. A lot depends on how much we like Zerk-Thatcher in the mid term, and if we rate Brand long term. If it's a tick for both, I'd say we're ok and don't need to pursue this barring a best available draft pick. Conversely, if we're not sold on one or both, I might look to the trade table for some options in the 22-24yo range - I'm thinking Griffin Logue (contracted 2022) as an example, but what would really tickle my fancy? Collingwood still has some residual cap issues, and Darcy Moore is a free agent next year. Be very interested in that conversation, particularly because we're likely to be open to trading next years first rounder for the right deal. We'd have to pay through the nose, no doubt about it - but one of the few players I think is worth the expense.

Small Forward

Walla is great, but I feel we need another class small forward. The shame of it is, talent wise we probably had that in Mosquito, but I think odds are long indeed for him returning. The good thing about small forwards, is going to the draft and picking best available is a decent option - they can impact games from a young age. Having said that, I was interested to note reports we're interested in Malcolm Rosas who is uncontracted at Gold Coast next year. The cost would be minimal (if it took any currency at all). Admittedly I don't know a lot about him, but his draft profile makes for good reading. Classic free hit IMO, and I hope we get that deal done.

I'm not a fan of spending up big on small forwards (as they are classically hot and cold players) so thoughts of pursuing Rankine or the like is a hard no.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us have a dip at Keidean Coleman.

Midfielder

Here's the question - is Pidge going to be the guy? If so, our midfield on paper is there IMO, and we only need to replenish through the draft. Draper, Parish, Merrett, Shiel, Caldwell, McGrath, Stringer - it looks the goods. If we ultimately make the call we'd like to see Pidge off half back, then I think we're likely going to the trade / FA pool to see what we can get.

The Shiel trade SHOULD make us a bit gun shy here. The cost for Dunkley for example was absurd and should not be met. My gut feel is we back in what we have, and not get drawn in to another trade for a high end midfielder.

Key Forward

Look. We're all thinking it, we want Ben King. And yes, Gold Coast will want a metric fu** ton of currency here. Can we get it done this year? The only way I see that happening is if we offload a player of significant value to accrue the necessary currency. One option? We could talk to Adelaide about Aaron Francis - there's some value to be had there - would offering up Francis and next years first net us Adelaide's 2022 first rounder and some late change (for points accrual purposes)? If you think about it, not a terrible deal for both parties. We'd then be offering up our first this year plus Adelaide's next year to Gold Coast in exchange for King.

Net result for the three clubs:

Essendon
In: King, Adelaide 2022 3rd round, Adelaide 2022 4th Rd
Out: Francis, Pick 11, 2022 1st Round Pick

Gold Coast
In: Pick 11, Adelaide 2022 1st Round
Out: King

Adelaide
In: Francis, Essendon 2022 1st Round
Out: 2022 1st Round, 2022 3rd Round, 2022 4th Round

Yes, we're paying BIG, but I'd say it's doable.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the creativity, but I’d doubt Adelaide are accepting Francis as the gap between the respective 2022 1st Rd picks, let alone giving up a 3rd & 4th rounder as well.
 
The plan for Cox is interesting in the context of this thread.

Was the wing just an entry point or do they see that as his long term role? Conceivably yes but could also see him playing back or forward. Even moving to inside mid at some point.

For me wing suits him really well and I think it works for the team now but if you thought there was potential as a tall forward then you’d have to take a look at it.

For me Cox to defence is like a get out of jail free card we can use whenever we want…..no question in my mind we can place him behind the ball and he could be dominant. Playing mid or forward is higher value however so only look at that if he’s struggling elsewhere or the team has a glaring need in that part of the ground.

Would Love to know what Truck et al are thinking re his future now that we’ve had him for 12 months or so. Presumably it impacts Dodoro and his work.
 
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