Taylor walker

[cmndstab]

I'm personally starting to believe that what NC and the AFC think and feel about Taylor Walker is so far out of whack with what people are thinking on this board that it's not funny.

From every discussion I have had with anyone associated with the AFC or Taylor Walker it has been repeated that Walker acknowledges where is at and where he needs to be going. The AFC are also extremely happy with him considering he background.

Give the guy this full pre-season and I really believe you won't see this Walker stuck behind Burton scenario everyone seems to be predicting.

100% agreed. It's kind of funny how supporters (not just here but on radio and the like as well) are projecting their own negative emotions onto Walker. They're disappointed that Walker is dropped, and so even though they don't know why (since as crows98 pointed out, the reasons were never fully explained), they assume that Walker is also angry at the club and wants to leave. Crazy.

In a couple of years time conversations about how Walker wants to leave and how the Crows are mismanaging them will seem hilarious.

 

[kingross29]

A quick story about Taylor which may have already been mentioned. In Round 23 Norwood had two first gamers, when he heard that he rang up the club to get their numbers and rang them both to congratulate them and wish them well. I know thats not really much but more than a few other AFL listed players have done while with us,

Figured he would probably be playing with them for a while

 

[arrowman]

Maybe you need to brief yourself on an article speculating that Essendon and Collingwood could be getting in his ear to leave the Crows.

It is only respect for this board and my fellow Crows supporters that prevents me from providing a terse, but complete, critique of this post.

 

[arrowman]

Not questioning your source but if he was dropped because he was arrogance that’s a disgrace, we need more player who have that swagger of brilliance.

Why get so exercised about something that you think would be disgraceful, if it were true, based on a rumour published by an anonymous person on an internet forum?

COME ON, PEOPLE. We've got relapse citing a speculative press article that says nothing of any substance and cites no sources of any substance, speculating about the trade prospects of a player who has just signed for 2 years based only on the "well, duh" that some other clubs would like him on their list, and crows98 getting all exercised because an anonymous person on the internet said he heard that Walker had been dropped for "arrogance".

Settle down, FFS.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Why get so exercised about something that you think would be disgraceful, if it were true, based on a rumour published by an anonymous person on an internet forum?

COME ON, PEOPLE. We've got relapse citing a speculative press article that says nothing of any substance and cites no sources of any substance, speculating about the trade prospects of a player who has just signed for 2 years based only on the "well, duh" that some other clubs would like him on their list, and crows98 getting all exercised because an anonymous person on the internet said he heard that Walker had been dropped for "arrogance".

Settle down, FFS.

In other words typical over-reaction by the fickle lot on BigFooty?! So nothing out the norm unfortunatly!

 

[betterthanu]

Would have loved to have been watching Walker kick a bag in a final today. Would have cured my hangover for sure

 

[relapse]

Why get so exercised about something that you think would be disgraceful, if it were true, based on a rumour published by an anonymous person on an internet forum?

COME ON, PEOPLE. We've got relapse citing a speculative press article that says nothing of any substance and cites no sources of any substance, speculating about the trade prospects of a player who has just signed for 2 years based only on the "well, duh" that some other clubs would like him on their list, and crows98 getting all exercised because an anonymous person on the internet said he heard that Walker had been dropped for "arrogance".

Settle down, FFS.

FFS I just made the point that the article said that Collingwood and Essendon have been sending scouts to watch walker and wondering why those clubs would go to the expense of doing this. Why would a club waste money on something apparently futile. I am sure that we dont go sending off scouts to watch opposition players that unless we had some belief that we could be able to potentially snare them away.

So on one hand we have a newpaper artcile claiming that Collingwood and Essendon have been sending scouts to watch walker play and on the other hand we have people on bigfooty saying it is ridiculous to even be slightly concerned that other clubs are trying to snare Walker away

 

[Stiffy_18]

FFS I just made the point that the article said that Collingwood and Essendon have been sending scouts to watch walker and wondering why those clubs would go to the expense of doing this. Why would a club waste money on something apparently futile. I am sure that we dont go sending off scouts to watch opposition players that unless we had some belief that we could be able to potentially snare them away.

So on one hand we have a newpaper artcile claiming that Collingwood and Essendon have been sending scouts to watch walker play and on the other hand we have people on bigfooty saying it is ridiculous to even be slightly concerned that other clubs are trying to snare Walker away

FFS which part of "he has signed on for 2 years on the even of the finals" don't you understand!

I know in the last week logic has not been your strong point but can you please answer the following questions:

1. If Walker is unhappy with the way that he is being treated why would he sign on for 2 years just before the finals?

2. If the club does not rate Walker, why would they offer him a 2 year deal?

I think if you look at it logically, Walker is happy where he is and the club is happy with his progress. This talk of Collingwood and Essendon sending scouts is not a big deal. If you know anything about recruiting you would know that each club has a few scouts in the SANFL, VFL, WAFL every week, not only looking at the underage footballers but also reserves and seniors. Its nothing out of the ordinary. Its a bit of a poetic license to suggest the clubs sent over the scouts to just watch Walker, if thats truly the case then they would have to be one of the worst recruiting networks in the AFL and we both know that is just not the case.

 

[Jima4]

Him and Tippet are the end of our search for a great forward line we couldn't do it

 

[razorsedge]

I think you will find he is happy at the club but has had issues with lack of communication from NC at times and even NC he alluded to this as a major problem of his in his analysis of the year.
The NFC absolutley love him out there as do the players and he is an absolute footy nut that has the potentila to be anything and as he is only 19 respect his faults and maybe watch him mature and develop in 2010 and maybe in two years compare him to the 18 year old that came down from the Hill to have a kick !

 

[cmndstab]

relapse - I can assure you clubs have people stationed all over Australia watching players. There is nothing out of the ordinary here. We have people in Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Sydney watching their players too. Probably trying to convince them to come to the Crows too.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think what this thread has established is that either Walker or Burton will win the Ken Farmer Medal next season.

relapse - I can assure you clubs have people stationed all over Australia watching players. There is nothing out of the ordinary here. We have people in Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Sydney watching their players too. Probably trying to convince them to come to the Crows too.

Would be news to NC who doesn't expect us to be active in trade week.

 

[-CG-]

So on one hand we have a newpaper artcile claiming that Collingwood and Essendon have been sending scouts to watch walker play and on the other hand we have people on bigfooty saying it is ridiculous to even be slightly concerned that other clubs are trying to snare Walker away

The article only mentions that there were Essendon 'scouts' watching him in the Norwood round 23 match against Central, which just happened to be the day after the Crows played Essendon in the elimination final. They hardly went out of their way to watch him.

Walker's five-goal haul which lifted SANFL club Norwood to a final-round upset against defending premiers Central District last Saturday impressed Essendon scouts sent to watch him.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26064550-23211,00.html

 

[cmndstab]

Would be news to NC who doesn't expect us to be active in trade week.

So you'd not have them look at anyone? NC doesn't expect us to be active in trade week but if the right deal came along of course he would go along with it. It would be pretty damn negligent of us to just to look at anyone, particularly young talent.

 

[Crow-mo]

FFS which part of "he has signed on for 2 years on the even of the finals" don't you understand!

I know in the last week logic has not been your strong point but can you please answer the following questions:

1. If Walker is unhappy with the way that he is being treated why would he sign on for 2 years just before the finals?

2. If the club does not rate Walker, why would they offer him a 2 year deal?

I think if you look at it logically, Walker is happy where he is and the club is happy with his progress. This talk of Collingwood and Essendon sending scouts is not a big deal. If you know anything about recruiting you would know that each club has a few scouts in the SANFL, VFL, WAFL every week, not only looking at the underage footballers but also reserves and seniors. Its nothing out of the ordinary. Its a bit of a poetic license to suggest the clubs sent over the scouts to just watch Walker, if thats truly the case then they would have to be one of the worst recruiting networks in the AFL and we both know that is just not the case.

not that I necessarily disagree with you, but aren't both your points also true for everitt?

 

[relapse]

FFS which part of "he has signed on for 2 years on the even of the finals" don't you understand!

I know in the last week logic has not been your strong point but can you please answer the following questions:

1. If Walker is unhappy with the way that he is being treated why would he sign on for 2 years just before the finals?

2. If the club does not rate Walker, why would they offer him a 2 year deal?

I think if you look at it logically, Walker is happy where he is and the club is happy with his progress. This talk of Collingwood and Essendon sending scouts is not a big deal. If you know anything about recruiting you would know that each club has a few scouts in the SANFL, VFL, WAFL every week, not only looking at the underage footballers but also reserves and seniors. Its nothing out of the ordinary. Its a bit of a poetic license to suggest the clubs sent over the scouts to just watch Walker, if thats truly the case then they would have to be one of the worst recruiting networks in the AFL and we both know that is just not the case.

That's a bit harsh, just because I dont want Burton, Shirley etc to play until the end of time

If we make a GF next year I will happily admit that I was wrong and Neil Craig made the right decision I dont have the G Cornes syndrome. Though hearing Goody last night say that Burton still had two to three years left in him was scary

 

[TheLeftFist8]

That's a bit harsh, just because I dont want Burton, Shirley etc to play until the end of time

If we make a GF next year I will happily admit that I was wrong and Neil Craig made the right decision I dont have the G Cornes syndrome. Though hearing Goody last night say that Burton still had two to three years left in him was scary

I know they are vastly different sports but could we be seeing a phenomenon in footy as it happened with cricket that 35 will become the new 30 when dealing with the better players on the list?

Sure, it's an extremely demanding sport in many ways but the conditioning, nutrition, injury management, monitoring of players is far superior than it ever has been. No longer is turning 30 a career death sentence (unless you are average and dispensible)

Barring injury, maybe it isn't beyond the realms for a couple of our vets to push on till they are 35?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I know they are vastly different sports but could we be seeing a phenomenon in footy as it happened with cricket that 35 will become the new 30 when dealing with the better players on the list?

Sure, it's an extremely demanding sport in many ways but the conditioning, nutrition, injury management, monitoring of players is far superior than it ever has been. No longer is turning 30 a career death sentence (unless you are average and dispensible)

Barring injury, maybe it isn't beyond the realms for a couple of our vets to push on till they are 35?

Don't mind that thinking. It seems that players have been getting younger and younger throughout the 90's and 00's as older players struggle with the workload, with the constant travel, the November to September campaigns etc. Players get off-loaded early and pretty much anyone who is 29 or older gets asked about retirement every single time they are interviewed.

But will things swing back the other way?

There has also been an obsession with leg speed which renders many oldsters obselete but perhaps the old adage that you look fast when you've got the ball and slow when you ain't will come back into vogue.

It also seems that AFL clubs have been very accepting of the AFL 'cylce' where teams have a spell down the bottom, gather decent draft picks and then work their way up, peak and then fall again. And clubs who are on the downward curve with seemingly little chance of playing finals will offload their 30 year olds. Which perhaps only serves to strengthen the effect of the 'cycle'

The AFC and a few other clubs are obviously not so accepting which is perhaps one reason why our four veterans are going around again.

The other avenue that hasn't really been explored (except by Brisbane with Alastair Lynch) is picking and choosing which games your veterans are going to play. An older player may not be able to withstand 22 consecutive minor round matches + finals but could make contributions throughout the season. It seems that unless a player is going to be able to put themselves on the park every week then there isn't a spot for them on your playing list.

Thinking out loud but what if our 4 veterans had 3 spots available to them next season each week? One extra space for a youngster and a rest for the old guys once a month on average.

 

[relapse]

I know they are vastly different sports but could we be seeing a phenomenon in footy as it happened with cricket that 35 will become the new 30 when dealing with the better players on the list?

Sure, it's an extremely demanding sport in many ways but the conditioning, nutrition, injury management, monitoring of players is far superior than it ever has been. No longer is turning 30 a career death sentence (unless you are average and dispensible)

Barring injury, maybe it isn't beyond the realms for a couple of our vets to push on till they are 35?

I think you will find that smaller list sizes means that players are forced out earlier than they used to be.

In modern football players are playing earlier than in the past, but are often retire younger than they did in the past.

 

[Vader]

I know they are vastly different sports but could we be seeing a phenomenon in footy as it happened with cricket that 35 will become the new 30 when dealing with the better players on the list?

Sure, it's an extremely demanding sport in many ways but the conditioning, nutrition, injury management, monitoring of players is far superior than it ever has been. No longer is turning 30 a career death sentence (unless you are average and dispensible)

Barring injury, maybe it isn't beyond the realms for a couple of our vets to push on till they are 35?

It's possible, but I don't think it's likely for several reasons:

• Firstly, VFL/AFL Football has been fully professional for a lot longer than cricket.
• Secondly, many (most?) retirements are forced by injury.
• Thirdly, unlike the Australian cricket team, AFL players are still coming into the game at the age of 18/19, not making their debut at the age of 30.

The Steve Waugh/Glen McGrath/Shane Warne generation were probably the first players to go through a system where there were massive dollars on offer. It used to be the case that cricketers, even at the international level, were basically amateurs. As a result, they tended to leave the game around the age of 30 - by this stage their careers outside of the game were beginning to take off, so they couldn't devote as much time to training as they had when they were younger. With a decrease in training came lapses in form - and soon enough they were dropped or retired. With a sudden increase in money available within the game, players no longer had careers outside of cricket - they were 100% devoted to staying in the team and performing at the highest level, as that was where the big $$$ were to be found. Consequently, the average age rose dramatically, to the point where it was rare for an Australian player to get selected under the age of 30.

Players in the AFL have been fully professional for a long time now, with the occasional player playing on well into their 30s - just think Michael Tuck & Craig Bradley. These players have always been the exception - they're fast becoming the rule in the Australian Cricket Team.

Australian Rules Football is a far more physical game than cricket. Most cricket injuries are of the repetitive strain type - particularly back injuries to fast bowlers. AFL footballers sustain a lot more physical impact style injuries as a result of the game they play. These injuries account for a large number of retirements - players reach the point where they can no longer perform at the top level, so they retire or get delisted. Improvements in the way that injuries are handled are reducing this to a degree, but it's nowhere near the degree required to turn AFL into a Dad's Army kind of game.

Lastly, AFL lists are fixed at 38 + rookies and veterans. The clubs are forced to turnover a minimum of 3 players every year (though they are able to re-draft the delisted players should they choose to do so). This is done specifically to ensure that there is a steady flow of new blood into the competition every year, keeping the game fresh. Cricket has no such ruling - it's usually harder to get out of the Australian team than it is to get in. The effect of this is that most players enter the AFL around the age of 19-21, but their early 30s they've been playing at the highest level for around 10 years. In comparison, an Australian cricketer these days is lucky to make his debut by the age of 30. Surely the cricketer is going to fight like hell to keep what they've got, knowing that their time at the top is going to be short, while the footballer is likely to be getting towards the end after 10 years of fighting and pushing hard.

 

[arrowman]

...Though hearing Goody last night say that Burton still had two to three years left in him was scary

The scary thing is not the Burton might be on the list for another 2-3 years; as has been noted elsewhere in this debate, with the state of the draft over the next few years the issue of players "taking up spots that could go to draft picks" is, temporarily at least, less critical.

(In terms of career longevity, the entry of the Gold Coast and Sydney teams might be the best thing that could have happened for Burton and his mates )

The scary thing is that by continually playing older guys like Burton we might stifle the development of younger players like Walker - which is of course a "well, duh!" statement at this stage of the debate!

But the point is - if a 19 year old "prodigious talent" in the coach's words can't force himself into the side in preference to an older guy like Burton, then - well, the problem wouldn't be that Burton was on the list, it would be Walker's ability to take his place in the team.

I still think we'll see a lot more of your Walkers, your Sloanes, your Petrenkos next year as Goodwin/McLeod etc get "managed" through the season.

 

[arrowman]

Thinking out loud but what if our 4 veterans had 3 spots available to them next season each week? One extra space for a youngster and a rest for the old guys once a month on average.

I think that's the sort of thing that will happen. From what Craigy has said (about what he has discussed with those players) I get the impression that the message is "If you are going to decide to play on, it must be on the udnerstanding that you will still need to meet selection benchmarks, you are not guaranteed a place in the team, you may not play all 22 games and you may even have to play a few games in the SANFL. If you are not prepared to commit to the season on that understanding, then you should pull the pin now." I know that's an extrapolation of what Craigy has said, but I don't think it's a big stretch.

 

[King Elvis]

I still think we'll see a lot more of your Walkers, your Sloanes, your Petrenkos next year as Goodwin/McLeod etc get "managed" through the season.

Hi Neil, good to see you posting

I think that's the sort of thing that will happen. From what Craigy has said (about what he has discussed with those players) I get the impression that the message is "If you are going to decide to play on, it must be on the udnerstanding that you will still need to meet selection benchmarks, you are not guaranteed a place in the team, you may not play all 22 games and you may even have to play a few games in the SANFL. If you are not prepared to commit to the season on that understanding, then you should pull the pin now." I know that's an extrapolation of what Craigy has said, but I don't think it's a big stretch.

I think you're on the money.