The Law The 120 hours learning to drive scheme needs to be extended

[UmpiringFooty]

Don't know about you but I'm personally worried about young people wanting to get their licence so quickly.
At the moment there is a scheme going for youngsters who are 16 and up that enables them to get their P's after they have done 120 hours of driving.
I'm in favour of an driver education course that starts in secondary school for year 10 students. What should happen is as well as having the 120 hours of driving experience the students need to undertake an education on the road laws. Not just by doing tests and other shit like that. But by doing units on the road laws to try and stop these kids from thinking they're invincible on the roads.
We all know that people who hoon are idiots right? Most of us are sick of hearing about hoons misusing the roads right?
How about extending the program and making sure that the student gets their P's on their 21st birthday?
Personally I have lived in streets where we have seen hoons use the roads wrongly and in particular have seen so many accidents happen here in Ballarat alone.
One particular accident happened to the neighbours over the road from me. They were too busy hooning around and they were coming back from a party. They decided to hoon as there were only metres to their place and the driver ended up with some life threatening injuries. He was left a quadrapligic.
What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

[Disclaimer: Due to bad sight in my right eye I do not drive. Legally, I am entitled to drive but I am aware that it is not safe to do so. No doubt this clouds my view of licencing laws.]

A lot of the "hoons" and stuff are not 18 year olds but in their 20s. (Often in their 50s in some places.)

It has become harder to obtain a license in recent decades. When I was a kid a lot of people got their Ls at 16, there were no minimum hours required, got their Ps at 17 with a basic 20 minute practical test and had a full license on their 18th birthday. (That's right people got their full licence to drive, and to drink, on the same day. oops.) Only in the 1990s did things like two tiers of P plates, Ps being more than one year, log books, and minimum driving hours come into it.

One thing I would like to see is a test on the laws for all license renewals, regardless of age. There seem to be a great number of people who knew the law to get their Ps ad either do not know the law or deliberately ignore it in full adulthood. Having to sit a reminder test every 3-5 years removes the ignorance option.

As for "hoons" and those who deliberately engage in stupidity, often dangerously so, ban them for life - with custodial sentences for ever being found in control of a motor vehicle again.
This shouldn't be for exceeding the speed limit by a few km or forgetting to indicate. These things are often punished beyond a momentary slip of the mind already.

I don't see it as an age issue, though most drivers do get better with experience, but an individual one. Some individuals are just idiots who should never be allowed to be in charge of what is the most lethal weapon most people will ever take control of. Driving is often treated as a right, it needs to be seen as a privelege that society can take away at any moment from anyone who abuses the privelege.

 

[hawks realist]

Don't know about you but I'm personally worried about young people wanting to get their licence so quickly.
At the moment there is a scheme going for youngsters who are 16 and up that enables them to get their P's after they have done 120 hours of driving.
I'm in favour of an driver education course that starts in secondary school for year 10 students. What should happen is as well as having the 120 hours of driving experience the students need to undertake an education on the road laws. Not just by doing tests and other shit like that. But by doing units on the road laws to try and stop these kids from thinking they're invincible on the roads.
We all know that people who hoon are idiots right? Most of us are sick of hearing about hoons misusing the roads right?
How about extending the program and making sure that the student gets their P's on their 21st birthday?
Personally I have lived in streets where we have seen hoons use the roads wrongly and in particular have seen so many accidents happen here in Ballarat alone.
One particular accident happened to the neighbours over the road from me. They were too busy hooning around and they were coming back from a party. They decided to hoon as there were only metres to their place and the driver ended up with some life threatening injuries. He was left a quadrapligic.
What are your thoughts on this?

Cool story bro,how long did it take you to get your license? I did a 30 minute test and passed the course on the computer.Easypeezy and now i hoon without a care in the world

 

[MrCharisma]

Meh, it was 6 months on your learners and no hours necessary when I got my licence. I take it you didn't think you were ready to drive when your got yours?

At the end of the day, I think attitude over aptitude is more important when it comes to young drivers. Rather see a test that shows young drivers are mature enough to hold a licence, than more log book hours.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I've passed my licence test in 1986, I got it 2 days after I turned 18, that was the earliest I could be booked in for the test. The age for getting your learners then was 17 not 16 or whatever it is now. There was no minimum 120hrs, in fact I barely drove prior to going for my licence. I used to pay attention and ask questions when driving around with family members and I was a passenger. My next door neighbour was a driving instructor with the dual control manual car, I had 3 lessons.

Making it more onerous to get one won't change peoples' attitudes. My rules for surviving have pretty much always been :

• Cars are a necessary evil, they're a money pit so there's no way I'm going to flog the car and cost myself more money in repairs and fines.
• Everyone else on the road is an idiot who doesn't know what they're doing.
• Don't just look at your immediate surroundings, look as far as you can so that you can prepare / anticipate.
• Is the risk you're contemplating really worth it to be one car length better off at the next set of lights or intersection?
• If someone approaching from behind is driving like and idiot, if it's safe, back off slightly so they can get past you quickly.
• If you pull out to overtake and things change, you're not a pussy if you back off and pull back in behind that truck or whatever again.
• On a long drive, if you're really fatigued, pull over where you can and have a kip so that you're not a threat to yourself or others. If you're going to visit people just call them and let them know. I'm sure they'd appreciate the call and you being an hour or 2 later than scheduled than finding out you've been mangled in a crash.
• I yell and curse, abuse and critique other drivers all the time. That's all I do, I still drive normally. This is especially true when stuck behind elderly drivers. (oh but statistically they're the safest drivers on the road , they just cause lots of other people to take risks and crash)
• Pay attention.
• Drive to the conditions, nowhere more so than if you're driving somewhere that you're not familiar with.

I've done plenty of reckless and dumb things in my life but none of them have been while behind the wheel.

I have an 9 year old and a 7 year old, I'm always asking them questions and pointing things out to them while we're driving.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

120 hours is a ridiculous time-frame IMO. If someone isn't competent after 10-20 hours behind the wheel, there's something wrong with them.

There was no time limit when I got my licence, did my test through school at 15, got my L's before my 16th (simple 20 question test), and then my P's a month before my 17th birthday and full licence before my 18th. (Tassie used a 12 month progression system).

I taught my wife to drive as an adult, who previously had shown no aptitude or interest and she was competent in an auto after just a few hours practice. She had to do 80 hours from memory, and it took nearly six months with her driving every time we went somewhere together, including every weekend.

By far the biggest issue IMO is poor and limited training (which I presume is why the experience level is set so high). IMO it's not the time spent behind the wheel, but the time spent actively learning and developing skills. I'm amazed how many people drive without any awareness of their surroundings - not noticing the car turning across oncoming traffic and blocking the lane 200m up the road, the truck indicating and looking for a gap to change lanes, parked cars with people in them, kids in driveways, the hoon behind who changes lane every 5 seconds, etc. Best thing I ever did was to get drivers to speak non-stop - constant stream of observations and thoughts.

Basic control of the car takes <1 hour behind the wheel. Judgement of space, speed, braking distances in all conditions takes longer, but should be competent within a couple. Once that level is reached, everything is about surroundings. Once a learner starts actively thinking about their environment, it becomes very easy to "read" the road well in advance.

I would like to see compulsory driving tests every two years before 25 (lets call it L1,L2,P1,P2,P3) and every two years after 55. I'd also like to see compulsory defensive driving and car control courses (eg oil, wet, conditions).

Get 40% of driver's off the roads and we also fix congestion around the major cities, increase value of public transport and reduce environmental impacts.

 

[little graham]

Old people cause more prangs.

 

[DrKrieger]

Its far too many hours with no standard for instructor.

You can get a pilots licence in 40 hours of training, then fly your mate's anywhere in Australia.

Driving needs to be a competency based course, taught by professional instructors and including both road law and car control (time on the skid pan etc)

It should also include exposure to motorcycles and heavy vehicles so that drivers understand that not everything on the road works like a car.

Will never happen though because it will cost money, which is unpopular, and also somehow the government have got it in their heads that professional driver training makes a person less safe. NFI how they came up with that.

Also regular driving tests should be done for EVERY driver, not just those in a certain age bracket.

 

[DREAM TEAM BUFF]

Been in the Emergency Services i can tell you it won't change a thing

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Load of shit, I got my licence just as NSW brought in the minimum hours to get a licence.

I believe it was 30 hours 3 with an instructor.

Then straight on the road, I barely had any experience.

And you know what? I was a nervous driver hence I didn't hoon, by the time I was 18 I had my full licence driving to and from work 100's probably 1000's of hours driving, and I was a hoon.

This idea that rasing the age of driving or the hours required has not nor will it ever solve the hoon problem.

This is the same reason time on a skidpad won't work either, the more confident you make the driver the more likely they are to take bigger risks.

 

[Aed0s]

Most of my friends cheat and fake their log book entries. It's easy. There's no need to practice for 120 hours, albeit it's a nice tracking device to see where you're at. Everyone develops differently. I know a few who only drove 5-10 hours and faked the rest. As for me, I'm still on my learners and have never faked any of my entries.

There's no way of proving that L platers have in fact done the hours they have written in their log books so they're going to take advantage of a flawed policy if they know they can get away with it.

Also, most fatal accidents are caused by alcoholism and stupid/risky behaviour.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Obviously I never knew anyone that did more then 10 hours before going for their P's

 

[The_Reaper]

How the **** is 120 hours possible?

Literally every would fake that if you have to do that much.

 

[Seeds]

I've passed my licence test in 1986, I got it 2 days after I turned 18, that was the earliest I could be booked in for the test. The age for getting your learners then was 17 not 16 or whatever it is now. There was no minimum 120hrs, in fact I barely drove prior to going for my licence. I used to pay attention and ask questions when driving around with family members and I was a passenger. My next door neighbour was a driving instructor with the dual control manual car, I had 3 lessons.

Making it more onerous to get one won't change peoples' attitudes. My rules for surviving have pretty much always been :

• Cars are a necessary evil, they're a money pit so there's no way I'm going to flog the car and cost myself more money in repairs and fines.
• Everyone else on the road is an idiot who doesn't know what they're doing.
• Don't just look at your immediate surroundings, look as far as you can so that you can prepare / anticipate.
• Is the risk you're contemplating really worth it to be one car length better off at the next set of lights or intersection?
• If someone approaching from behind is driving like and idiot, if it's safe, back off slightly so they can get past you quickly.
• If you pull out to overtake and things change, you're not a pussy if you back off and pull back in behind that truck or whatever again.
• On a long drive, if you're really fatigued, pull over where you can and have a kip so that you're not a threat to yourself or others. If you're going to visit people just call them and let them know. I'm sure they'd appreciate the call and you being an hour or 2 later than scheduled than finding out you've been mangled in a crash.
• I yell and curse, abuse and critique other drivers all the time. That's all I do, I still drive normally. This is especially true when stuck behind elderly drivers. (oh but statistically they're the safest drivers on the road , they just cause lots of other people to take risks and crash)
• Pay attention.
• Drive to the conditions, nowhere more so than if you're driving somewhere that you're not familiar with.

I've done plenty of reckless and dumb things in my life but none of them have been while behind the wheel.

I have an 9 year old and a 7 year old, I'm always asking them questions and pointing things out to them while we're driving.

Cars are evil? I would of thought the ability to travel long distances in short amounts of time and move goods in bulk long distances has done an awful lot of good myself. An awful lot.

 

[Seeds]

I wonder if these people making it harder to drive for young people had the same views when they were young and trying to get their license?

 

[lewigie]

How the **** is 120 hours possible?

Literally every would fake that if you have to do that much.

Yeah, I only had to do 25 hours a few years back.

Bloody hard if both your parents work full time.

 

[Taylor]

Young people soon realise that the road safety media is exaggerated. They speed and it's safe 999/1000, the rest of the message skips them by. After all, they were supposed to have a huge crash.

 

[UmpiringFooty]

120 hours = 3 months of driving. Too little.
A car shouldn't be a given to anyone unless they have a job.
However, most job network agencies say you must have a car.
That's ok but how are the unemployed supposed to pay for it?

 

[MrCharisma]

120 hours = 3 months of driving. Too little.
A car shouldn't be a given to anyone unless they have a job.
However, most job network agencies say you must have a car.
That's ok but how are the unemployed supposed to pay for it?

120 hours = 3 months? Good luck finding someone who's going to supervise you an hour a day or whatever, every day for 3 months.

 

[DrKrieger]

120 hours = 3 months of driving. Too little.
A car shouldn't be a given to anyone unless they have a job.
However, most job network agencies say you must have a car.
That's ok but how are the unemployed supposed to pay for it?

Ironically to be able to do 120 hours you need someone who has no job to instruct

 

[TigersMan4]

120 hours = 3 months of driving. Too little.
A car shouldn't be a given to anyone unless they have a job.
However, most job network agencies say you must have a car.
That's ok but how are the unemployed supposed to pay for it?

Do you actually know anything about the topic? What did you have to do when you got your licence? Is it anything near what kids need to do now days?

I recently got my licence (3 months ago). I got it the day i turned 18 (which is the only time someone is eligible to get their licence, not 3 months after they get their l's at 16 if they get the 120 hours like you seem to believe) and i had well over 120 hours. i was in the 160's and had been for a couple of months until i stopped filling in the book. I consider myself as someone who drives a lot and even then, it took me a year and a couple of months to get the 120 hours, so i have no clue where you plucked the 3 months from.

after the first 15 hours, i was confident and was making the right decisions. same with my sister who is currently a learner driver. she only has 40 hours under her belt and i feel completely safe being in the car with her and i have no doubt that if she went for her licence, she would pass with flying colours and be a good driver on her own.

It comes down to character. I have a mate who has already written off a car and had had his licence for 5 months, even know he drove way more than the mandatory 120 hours. I also have friends who bullshitted the books and got their licence with only like 20 hours driving experience and havent been in any road incidents.

we are adults at the age of 18, please start treating us like it. We can go out and serve our country in war, but you dont think we should be allowed to drive a car for another 3 years?

Get a grip.

 

[NitroFan]

i think i was licensed to drive a semi without having done 120 hours behind any wheel.

 

[Masten2Darling]

Tough enough doing 25 like I had to when I was hardly with my parents, let alone another 95 hours.

Ridiculous call, and I have never received a penalty while driving or being even close to an accident.

I got my P's as soon as I could, I was barely 17 and ready to go. Hours should not be used as a major indicator.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Cars are evil? I would of thought the ability to travel long distances in short amounts of time and move goods in bulk long distances has done an awful lot of good myself. An awful lot.

Good on you for missing my point completely but at least you backed it up with a very good post straight afterwards.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

we are adults at the age of 18, please start treating us like it. We can go out and serve our country in war, but you dont think we should be allowed to drive a car for another 3 years?

Get a grip.

In fairness theres a large contingent on big footy that don't want you to drink or vote either.