The 2015 Attendance Thread

[Hawkk]

But with respect Rouel you are misreading a bit. The attendance figures at Cats V Hawks in recent years could only ever be a temporary phenomenon and was built on their uncanny equality onfield.

Any sign that that equality was going was always going to puncture the figures a bit. The Hawks were justified odds on favourites going in ( that deflated the attendance in itself ) and justified that by walloping the declining Cats and as I said above we will now see a substantial tail off in attendances to that fixture in future for three main reasons.

1. Geelong less likely to travel to Melbourne to see their team lose
3. 1 or 2 game a year hawk fans ( every club has them ) less interested and more likely to attend VS the traditional Big 4 in melbourne
2. Neutrals looking elsewhere for an "event".

This.

Our flag unfurl against Fremantle last year drew 43,583. Add 0 to 5k fans for the fact that this year was round 1, on Easter Monday against our 2nd greatest rival and the rest is reliant on opposition fans and neutrals.

Given we went in heavy favourite and the was no hype after the comprehensive QF performance last year and 70-75k was always the ballpark for this fixture

Now had we had a PF 2013 type match the last time we met 80,000 definitely would have been on the cards.

That said it was only 7 years ago that we played Geelong in round 1, after our flag unfurl and 'only' drew 69,549...at the peak of the Geelong v Hawthorn rivalry (which back then was the 4th highest HFC home game of all time)...so the rivalry has had an excellent run.

That said I cant see why Geelong, Essendon and (as long as Buddy is in Sydney) the Swans wouldn't be the desirable fixture for the 1-2 game members for the foreseeable future. The Swans for one reason or another have been a strong draw for the Hawks in Melbourne over the last 10 years...that will only get stronger if Buddy is successful in Sydney and both clubs remain somewhat competitive

 

[gaelictiogar]

This.

Our flag unfurl against Fremantle last year drew 43,583. Add 0 to 5k fans for the fact that this year was round 1, on Easter Monday against our 2nd greatest rival and the rest is reliant on opposition fans and neutrals.

Given we went in heavy favourite and the was no hype after the comprehensive QF performance last year and 70-75k was always the ballpark for this fixture

Now had we had a PF 2013 type match the last time we met 80,000 definitely would have been on the cards.

That said it was only 7 years ago that we played Geelong in round 1, after our flag unfurl and 'only' drew 69,549...at the peak of the Geelong v Hawthorn rivalry (which back then was the 4th highest HFC home game of all time)...so the rivalry has had an excellent run.

That said I cant see why Geelong, Essendon and (as long as Buddy is in Sydney) the Swans wouldn't be the desirable fixture for the 1-2 game members for the foreseeable future. The Swans for one reason or another have been a strong draw for the Hawks in Melbourne over the last 10 years...that will only get stronger if Buddy is successful in Sydney and both clubs remain somewhat competitive

Yes the Buddy point will in all likelihood insulate the Sydney game and Essendon would be your main traditional rival.

To be honest I have my doubts about the Geelong game surviving as one of your top 2 rivalries into the future. The majority of Hawthorn fans live in metro Melbourne where they are surrounded not by cats but rather by Maggies, Blues and Tigers.

The internecine squabbles of Melbourne footy always re emerge with time.

Essendon are a despised disgraced club now and that will add grist to the mill of your rivalry. The Blues are at 106.00 with the bookmakers for the minor prem and that speaks volumes about the shambles they are. To quote an overused cliché Carlton are the new Richmond.

However whichever of Collingwood or Richmond eventually plucks your feathers in a final will very quickly loom up as a huge rival to rival if ( big if ) you stay competitive into the middle distance.

 

[walhawk]

Yes the Buddy point will in all likelihood insulate the Sydney game and Essendon would be your main traditional rival.

To be honest I have my doubts about the Geelong game surviving as one of your top 2 rivalries into the future. The majority of Hawthorn fans live in metro Melbourne where they are surrounded not by cats but rather by Maggies, Blues and Tigers.

The internecine squabbles of Melbourne footy always re emerge with time.

Essendon are a despised disgraced club now and that will add grist to the mill of your rivalry. The Blues are at 106.00 with the bookmakers for the minor prem and that speaks volumes about the shambles they are. To quote an overused cliché Carlton are the new Richmond.

However whichever of Collingwood or Richmond eventually plucks your feathers in a final will very quickly loom up as a huge rival to rival if ( big if ) you stay competitive into the middle distance.

Doubt it.
We have played recent finals v Pies including 3 pt PF. There is no rivalry.
Rivalries take decades to build up. Like Hawks v Cats. Great crowd today and Easter Monday will always draw well. Can't see it ever dropping below 60K. It is one of the big 4 H & A games the AFL pencils in every year.

 

[Air_Chester]

I'd be happy with 60k at the MCG next Sunday for Essendon-Hawthorn.

I don't think playing Sunday is an issue. We got 62 and 58k to our Sunday night/twilight games against Carlton/Collingwood last year in rounds 3 and 17 (probably why I didn't buy the timeslot blaming when Carlton vs. Collingwood only got 40k in between those two games). I don't see Sunday costing too many, but I don't see it getting past the 60-65 range.

If Essendon had played out the Sydney game as they had the first three quarters, I'd say you could chuck a few extra thousand in. The last quarter was a bit of a dampener, and I think you'll find some fans will write the game off and look ahead to round 3.

 

[gaelictiogar]

Doubt it.
We have played recent finals v Pies including 3 pt PF. There is no rivalry.
Rivalries take decades to build up. Like Hawks v Cats. Great crowd today and Easter Monday will always draw well. Can't see it ever dropping below 60K. It is one of the big 4 H & A games the AFL pencils in every year.

You may be right walhawk but I suspect you are probably wrong on 2 counts. One general. One particular tot he fixture.

1. Every rivalry however ancient or however big the clubs involved may be sees attendances fall below 60,000.
Carlton V Collingwood is as big a rivalry as any in the game. It drew 40,000 last year has dropped below 60,000 on nine occasions since 2000.
As recently as 2012 Richmonds storied and literally bloodstained rivalries with Carlton and Collingwood have seen attendances drop below 60,000.
Carlton V Essendon, another great clasico of the game has dropped below 60,000 no less than 14 times since 2000.
These are among the tiny handful of great classic match ups and all regularly drope below 60,000.

2. more generally Geelong V Hawthorn may be a decades long rivalry but it certainly has not had decades long appeal as a crowd draw. Prior to 2008 the biggest attendance at the fixture was 41,000 and 40K was breached only twice. Since then it has been a great rivalry fed on the fact that both teams were clearly superior to anything else with only C'wood to argue the point and you played all those great nailbiters.

In other words there is no history of the fixture guaranteeing 60,000 or indeed close to it without the coincidence of both sides effectively sharing favouritism for the flag. I have no doubt that the past 6 to 8 years have added considerably to the trend crowd appeal of the fixture but to be honest I doubt very much it will survive as a regular 60K plus event on the end of the recent period of coincidental form. If Geelong fall off I think you'll see substantial slippage in the next game.

I could be wrong. it's only an opinion.

 

[Hawkk]

You may be right walhawk but I suspect you are probably wrong on 2 counts. One general. One particular tot he fixture.

1. Every rivalry however ancient or however big the clubs involved may be sees attendances fall below 60,000. Carlton V Collingwood is as big a rivalry as any in the game. It drew 40,000 last year has dropped below 60,000 on nine occasions since 2000. Carlton V Essendon, another great clasico of the game has dropped below 60,000 no less than 14 times since 2000. These are among the tiny handful of great classic match ups.

2. more generally Geelong V Hawthorn may be a decades long rivalry but it certainly has not had decades long appeal as a crowd draw. Prior to 2008 the biggest attendance at the fixture was 41,000 and 40K was breached only twice. Since then it has been a great rivalry fed on the fact that both teams were clearly superior to anything else with only C'wood to argue the point and you played all those nailbiters.

In other words there is no history of the fixture guaranteeing 60,000 or indeed close to it without the coincidence of both sides sharing favouritism for the flag. I have no doubt that the past 6 to 8 years have added considerably to the trend crowd appeal of the fixture but to be honest I doubt very much it will survive as a regular 60K plus event on the end of the recent period of coincidental form. If Geelong fall off I think you'll see substantial slippage in the next game.

I could be wrong. it's only an opinion.

'90s aside has this always been a huge rivalry anyway? I was under the impression that Carlton's rivalries with Essendon pales in comparison to Collingwood and Richmond historically. Carlton v Essendon was really the '90s equivalent of the modern Hawthorn v Geelong rivalry (they even used to play on Easter Monday)

That said I think the point that walhawk is making is that the attendance on Easter Monday won't fall below 60,000. Queens Birthday and the season opening Carlton v Richmond games are very good examples of the occasion of a marquee timeslot buffers otherwise ordinary 45k to 50k attendances.

With respect to Geelong v Hawthorn games historically it should be said that it wasn't until the late 2000's that we consistently played them at the MCG. For a long time Cats v Hawks games were games reserved for Ethiad Stadium home or away to fill Docklands quota of mid-to-high drawing games. Before that it was Waverley Park (which lets be honest is one hell of a road trip from Geelong) and Kardina Park back in the '90s.

The fixture wasn't given the opportunity to grow and develop as it has over the last decade - but that's not not say a rivalry didn't exist as the '89 GF, '91 SF and '00 EF can attest

 

[gaelictiogar]

'90s aside has this always been a huge rivalry anyway? I was under the impression that Carlton's rivalries with Essendon pales in comparison to Collingwood and Richmond historically. Carlton v Essendon was really the '90s equivalent of the modern Hawthorn v Geelong rivalry (they even used to play on Easter Monday)

That said I think the point that walhawk is making is that the attendance on Easter Monday won't fall below 60,000. Queens Birthday and the season opening Carlton v Richmond games are very good examples of the occasion of a marquee timeslot buffers otherwise ordinary 45k to 50k attendances.

With respect to Geelong v Hawthorn games historically it should be said that it wasn't until the late 2000's that we consistently played them at the MCG. For a long time Cats v Hawks games were games reserved for Ethiad Stadium home or away to fill Docklands quota of mid-to-high drawing games. Before that it was Waverley Park (which lets be honest is one hell of a road trip from Geelong) and Kardina Park back in the '90s.

The fixture wasn't given the opportunity to grow and develop as it has over the last decade - but that's not not say a rivalry didn't exist as the '89 GF, '91 SF and '00 EF can attest

Without doubt essendon are to an extent new boys as rivals to the Carlton/Colllingwood/Richmond trio.

I'm a Tigerfan. I know Essendon are a huge club and have a huge footprint but beating Carlton or Collingwood means far more to me. Those Richmond V Collingwood match ups in the 1970s were the noisy colourful packed out and febrile model of what a footy rivalry is. I'd love to see a return to Richmond V Collingwood finals.

I don't dismiss anything you say about the Cats V hawks match up. I'm really just stating my by now routine warning about over optimism based on unwarranted assumption.

The Easter match up probably will secure 60K for the foreseeable future....the return game however may well be another story and possibly as early as this year if the Cats drop off. Bandwagons empty quickly in our game and that is not a point about the cats it is a general one.

 

[Oneiros]

In some way the location of Adelaide Oval is probably better than the MCG (its mixes and matches the best of Ethiad and the MCG from a locational perspective)

It sounds like Perth Arena's location over here, absolute gem of a placement in terms of immediate access to all sorts of food/drink options, transport and the CBD. Big part of Perth Wildcats staying over 10k for every regular season game is that location.

Location really is a huge component to any stadium/arena's success.

 

[Cmarsh]

It sounds like Perth Arena's location over here, absolute gem of a placement in terms of immediate access to all sorts of food/drink options, transport and the CBD. Big part of Perth Wildcats staying over 10k for every regular season game is that location.

Location really is a huge component to any stadium/arena's success.

I was wondering if the new Perth stadium will be as much of a success as the redeveloped AO. What's your opinion on that Oneiros?

 

[Hawkk]

Essendon's 'core' home crowd at Docklands is usually 27 - 32k. It usually appears to be significantly larger at the MCG and I'd estimate ~ 35,000 of the 51,000 in round 2 2013 against Melbourne at the MCG were Essendon supporters. Also being our first Melbourne game I will estimate there should be 35,000 Bomber supporters. It's a Hawks replacement game and Hawks supporters prefer 'big' games so I'd suspect they'd be able to draw close to 30k. With the MCC etc there may be 5k neutrals, so I'd be disappointed if there isn't close to 70k.

In saying that, as an interstate Essendon supporter, Hawthorn are probably a long, long way ahead of Essendon so I'm not bothering with the trip especially being late Sunday. I'll travel to see mid-tier teams Collingwood/Carlton/North/Richmond instead. But this is likely only relevant to a small number of non-Melbourne supporters who can't attend every game.

The MCC are hopeful of a big attendances on Saturday and Sunday

So either Essendon fans fancy themselves or you are all a bunch of epic machinists

AFL Rd 2 - Richmond V W Bulldogs

http://www.mcc.org.au/Events at the MCG/Calendar of Events/Event Details.aspx?eid={FFD80BF6-2C38-4546-B0C4-D15FCBF55AE7}

Apr 11, 2015

Event: AFL Round 2
Teams: Richmond v Western Bulldogs
Date: Saturday April 11, 2015
Start time: 1.45pm
Curtain-raiser: AIS Under 18 v Northern Blues (10.25am start)
Estimated attendance: 50,000
Gate opening Public/AFL members: 12.00pm
MCC members: 11.30am

AFL Rd 2 - Essendon v Hawthorn

http://www.mcc.org.au/Events at the MCG/Calendar of Events/Event Details.aspx?eid={3B98A6BD-F980-4984-9F11-0656C77F903E}

April 12, 2015

Event: AFL Round 2
Teams: Essendon v Hawthorn
Date: Sunday April 12, 2015
Start time: 3.20pm
Gate opening Public/AFL members: 1.30pm
MCC members: 1.00pm

Estimated attendance: 72,000

 

[telsor]

72K on a Sunday seems optimistic, regardless of who is playing.

 

[Tassieboy]

The MCC are hopeful of a big attendances on Saturday and Sunday

So either Essendon fans fancy themselves or you are all a bunch of epic machinists

AFL Rd 2 - Richmond V W Bulldogs

http://www.mcc.org.au/Events at the MCG/Calendar of Events/Event Details.aspx?eid={FFD80BF6-2C38-4546-B0C4-D15FCBF55AE7}

Apr 11, 2015

Event: AFL Round 2
Teams: Richmond v Western Bulldogs
Date: Saturday April 11, 2015
Start time: 1.45pm
Curtain-raiser: AIS Under 18 v Northern Blues (10.25am start)
Estimated attendance: 50,000
Gate opening Public/AFL members: 12.00pm
MCC members: 11.30am

AFL Rd 2 - Essendon v Hawthorn

http://www.mcc.org.au/Events at the MCG/Calendar of Events/Event Details.aspx?eid={3B98A6BD-F980-4984-9F11-0656C77F903E}

April 12, 2015

Event: AFL Round 2
Teams: Essendon v Hawthorn
Date: Sunday April 12, 2015
Start time: 3.20pm
Gate opening Public/AFL members: 1.30pm
MCC members: 1.00pm

Estimated attendance: 72,000

I hope so. Regardless of the result - it could easily be a 10 goal + pumping - I hope the crowd stacks up. I really don't want an annual Docklands match again. Along with Essendon being abysmal for 10 years, playing at Docklands once a year has killed the rivalry.

 

[Oneiros]

I was wondering if the new Perth stadium will be as much of a success as the redeveloped AO. What's your opinion on that Oneiros?

Hard to say, but the population/membership pressure is certainly there. Some of it will depend on making sure the NIMBy's don't **** up the footbridge, and just generally how easy the transfer between CBD and Belmont for pre- and post-game entertainment and food options will be.

Of course, part of what we saw with the AAMI->AO transfer (or the Challenge->Perth Arena change) is that if you have horrible antiquated facilities you have a standing ******ant to crowds, and if you release that handbrake, you may see a substantial and sustained increase in attendance.

 

[walhawk]

You may be right walhawk but I suspect you are probably wrong on 2 counts. One general. One particular tot he fixture.

1. Every rivalry however ancient or however big the clubs involved may be sees attendances fall below 60,000.
Carlton V Collingwood is as big a rivalry as any in the game. It drew 40,000 last year has dropped below 60,000 on nine occasions since 2000.
As recently as 2012 Richmonds storied and literally bloodstained rivalries with Carlton and Collingwood have seen attendances drop below 60,000.
Carlton V Essendon, another great clasico of the game has dropped below 60,000 no less than 14 times since 2000.
These are among the tiny handful of great classic match ups and all regularly drope below 60,000.

2. more generally Geelong V Hawthorn may be a decades long rivalry but it certainly has not had decades long appeal as a crowd draw. Prior to 2008 the biggest attendance at the fixture was 41,000 and 40K was breached only twice. Since then it has been a great rivalry fed on the fact that both teams were clearly superior to anything else with only C'wood to argue the point and you played all those great nailbiters.

In other words there is no history of the fixture guaranteeing 60,000 or indeed close to it without the coincidence of both sides effectively sharing favouritism for the flag. I have no doubt that the past 6 to 8 years have added considerably to the trend crowd appeal of the fixture but to be honest I doubt very much it will survive as a regular 60K plus event on the end of the recent period of coincidental form. If Geelong fall off I think you'll see substantial slippage in the next game.

I could be wrong. it's only an opinion.

I am talking about Easter Monday, not the return match.
Like Dreamtime (a nit artificail for me), Anzac and opening round (Blues v Tiges), I doubt it will drop below 60K in the near future. We have 50K Vic members and this isone of the big ones for us.

 

[Bender571]

34k In Perth today, a little on the low side given the quality of the opposition.

Some people on the Freo board said that due to the earlier fire at Subi their tickets weren't scanned, just manually checked.

At the game I couldn't see where there could be 10k empty seats.

 

[Oneiros]

Some people on the Freo board said that due to the earlier fire at Subi their tickets weren't scanned, just manually checked.

At the game I couldn't see where there could be 10k empty seats.

I didn't watch the whole match, but from what I saw it did seem pretty stuffed with people, so an announced 34k does seem low.

That fire was pretty bizarre.

 

[Righteo]

I didn't watch the whole match, but from what I saw it did seem pretty stuffed with people, so an announced 34k does seem low.

That fire was pretty bizarre.

I don't think it was only 34k either but for whatever reason we never seem to get near 40k for our opening home games and combined with the Easter long weekend (and a shitty time slot) it shouldn't be too surprising a figure. I thought it was as loud as our semi-final against Port though which drew capacity.

 

[legend166]

The swans crowd was the disappointment of the round. Was expecting 40k but all we saw was empty seats

It was basically a monsoon for the preceding 24 hours.

 

[Rob]

I was wondering if the new Perth stadium will be as much of a success as the redeveloped AO. What's your opinion on that Oneiros?

It's going to be hard to be as much of a success because the potential upside isn't there. Subiaco already sells out for every game. I'd be surprised if the new stadium didn't as well. Certainly West Coast will sell out all their membership allocation, Freo will at least come close.

 

[gaelictiogar]

I am talking about Easter Monday, not the return match.
Like Dreamtime (a nit artificail for me), Anzac and opening round (Blues v Tiges), I doubt it will drop below 60K in the near future. We have 50K Vic members and this isone of the big ones for us.

I think Dreamtime is not just a bit artificial. To be honest I think it is entirely artificial. I don't like the concept.

I'm all for building a rivalry round Essendon v Richmond but the Dreamtime guff is just not for me. All things being equal the fixture p trends as one of the biggest draws in Victorian football and has no need of an artificial concept added to what is in truth a straightforward non holiday match up.

Queens Birthday, ANZAC and Easter are all holiday games with legit pushes to make the most of them. Dreamtime is really just a regular weekend match up with a silly advertising concept. I'd drop it and get the two clubs to build a shared revenue early season blockbuster instead. With both clubs pushing it for shared revenue it would draw as many people without the Dreamtime guff.

 

[Oneiros]

It's going to be hard to be as much of a success because the potential upside isn't there. Subiaco already sells out for every game. I'd be surprised if the new stadium didn't as well. Certainly West Coast will sell out all their membership allocation, Freo will at least come close.

Yeah, memberships should sell out still.

As much as people talk about how more seats might relax the requirement to get a membership, all you have to do is look at the highly skewed demographics of the membership base to see that there are a lot of people still locked out of memberships. That isn't going away for a mere few thousand extra seats.

 

[Hawkk]

I think Dreamtime is not just a bit artificial. To be honest I think it is entirely artificial. I don't like the concept.

I'm all for building a rivalry round Essendon v Richmond but the Dreamtime guff is just not for me. All things being equal the fixture p trends as one of the biggest draws in Victorian football and has no need of an artificial concept added to what is in truth a straightforward non holiday match up.

Queens Birthday, ANZAC and Easter are all holiday games with legit pushes to make the most of them. Dreamtime is really just a regular weekend match up with a silly advertising concept. I'd drop it and get the two clubs to build a shared revenue early season blockbuster instead. With both clubs pushing it for shared revenue it would draw as many people without the Dreamtime guff.

Its not surprising that the AFL has used ANZAC Day and Dreamtime to contrive a rivalry between two clubs that ultimately share little to no actual rivalry (Collingwood and Essendon and Essendon and Richmond). Neither Collingwood or Richmond (and visa versa with Essendon) have grounds to consider their opponent amongst their top 2-3 historical rivalries.

For Collingwood:

(1. Carlton, 2. Melbourne, 3. Richmond, 4. Geelong)

For Richmond:

(1. Carlton, 2. Collingwood, 3. Essendon?)

For Essendon

(1. Carlton, 2. Hawthorn, 3. Collingwood)

The fixture that has never got much love from AFL headquarters and should be a much larger rivalry is Collingwood and Geelong. Together they have played in 23 finals (12-11 Geelong way) (the most of any pairing in the VFL/AFL), have vied off in 6 GF's ('25, '30, '37, '52, '53, '11) and have drawn 5 80k plus home / away attendances (no mean feat as the Cats and Magpies played home games at Victoria Park / Kardina Park up to the mid to late '90s)

In fact if you look at old Victorian clubs, the mix of GF opponents is interesting...

55% of Collingwood's 43 GF's were against Melbourne ('26, '39, '55, '56, '58, '60, '64), Geelong ('25, '30, '37, '52, '53, '11), Carlton ('10, '15, '38, '70, '79, '81) and Richmond ('19, '20, '27, '28, '29, '80)
70% of Carlton's 29 GF's were against Collingwood ('10, '15, '38, '70, '79, '81), Richmond ('21, '32, '69, '72, '73, '82), Essendon ('47, '62, '68, '93)...and South Melbourne ('07, '09, '14, '45)
50% of Essendon's 29 GF's were against Melbourne ('41, '46, '48, '57, '59, '00), Carlton ('47, '62, '68, '93), Collingwood ('01, '02, '11, '90)
50% of Richmond's 22 GF's were against Carlton ('21, '32, '69, '72, '73, '82) or Collingwood ('19, '27, '28, '29, '80)
50% of Hawthorn's 18 GF's were against North Melbourne ('75, 76, '78), Essendon ('83, '84, '85) and Geelong ('63, '89, '08)...but 4 of the last 5 GF's have been against non Victorian opposition ('91, '12, '13, '14)
75% of Melbourne's 17 GF's were against Collingwood ('26, '39, '55, '56, '58, '60, '64), Essendon ('41, '46, '48, '57, '59, '00)
55% of Geelong's 17 GF's were against Collingwood ('25, '30, '37, '52, '53, '11) and Hawthorn ('63, '89, '08)

A couple of things based on these numbers...

• Collingwood and Richmond was the biggest rivalry of the 1920s and 1930s
• Melbourne v Collingwood / Essendon dominated the football landscape through the 1940's and 1950's
• Carlton v Collingwood surely only became the greatest rivalry in VFL/AFL history in the mid 1970's because before 1970 it was just another run-of-the-mill opponent that gave Collingwood GF heartbreak (which basically all Victorian clubs have done save Richmond (4-1 in GFs)). Up to the 1980's Richmond was Carlton's biggest rivalry and Melbourne was Collingwood's (as evidenced by the '88 Pies-Demons final outdrawing Pies-Blues)
• Hawthorn v Essendon only got big in the 1980's (think '83, '84, '85 GFs, '84 SF, '89 Major SF)
• Carlton v Essendon only got big in the 1990's (think '93 GF, '95 Blues v '00 Bombers, '99 PF and 16 flags v 16 flags)
• Collingwood v Essendon was dormant for 90 years up to the '90 GF and then was accentuated with ANZAC Day ('95 onwards)
• 4 of Hawthorn's 18 GF opponents have been non Victorian clubs (it could be a 5th from 19 GF's this year!). Its something of a rite of passage for WA clubs to play and lose their first GF to Hawthorn ('91 Eagles, '13 Dockers)

Oh this is a crowd thread

 

[Rouel_14]

I think Dreamtime is not just a bit artificial. To be honest I think it is entirely artificial. I don't like the concept.

I'm all for building a rivalry round Essendon v Richmond but the Dreamtime guff is just not for me. All things being equal the fixture p trends as one of the biggest draws in Victorian football and has no need of an artificial concept added to what is in truth a straightforward non holiday match up.

Queens Birthday, ANZAC and Easter are all holiday games with legit pushes to make the most of them. Dreamtime is really just a regular weekend match up with a silly advertising concept. I'd drop it and get the two clubs to build a shared revenue early season blockbuster instead. With both clubs pushing it for shared revenue it would draw as many people without the Dreamtime guff.

As much as dreamtime is a bit artificial in one sense, the afl will never get rid of it, as imagine the uproar that would come from the indigenous community.
So for the sake of keeping them happy, a pretty good rivalry has grown in the process. I have been to every single one since it was introduced and with the exception to last year where we just got killed, the is a lot of feeling in the car and the atmosphere is pretty dam good!

 

[MattF185]

Richmond Western Bulldogs should push high 50,000's. Bulldogs have only played in front of crowds of 50+ 16 times in the Home and Away season.
The breakdown:
50+: 7 times
55+: 3 times
60+: 1 time
65+ 5 times

 

[MattF185]

Essendon and Hawthorn have only played in front of 65,000+ once in a Home and Away season match, which was in 2009.