Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[ZEV]

Funny but I am actually old enough to remember Nathan's entire career. And while I am one his most staunch supporters now, I was not when he was a player.

Great player, but incredibly self-centred and selfish.
Through both actions and by listening intently to the words of his players now, could not be further from what he represents as a coach.

Trust me, my view is incredibly measured and educated. Nothing to do with what he achieved as a player.

What makes you say that?

 

[DT_fanatic]

The average losing margins have improved and not as many blowouts- but they're still losses.
You do know if we lose our next 2 games- our wins will have continued on the downward trend.
We won 9 games last season.
Currently sitting on 8.

I'm not sure how this constitutes as the senior coach having improved the playing list? We have holes everywhere with plenty of "grunt" players which is Buckley's mantra and no polish or skill. In fact, he continues to persist with these types when everyone can see they're not up to standard.

To be honest, I'm of the school of thought that it is tough on the pro-Buckley brigade to let go of this roller coaster purely because of what he represents to our football club as a player and servant.
This is why the judgment on Buckley is clouded.

Maybe there isn't an assistant out there who is better- but maybe there is.
The reality is, we cannot get any worse- so why can't change be a good thing? We badly need change- that is evident.

I've seen a couple of posts to this effect. If we do end up winning 1 of the next 2, or even the next 2 - not an impossible task - would you agree we have improved?

I think it's well known that the pro-Buckley supporters have been using other evidence besides W/L to suggest we have improved regardless, but given the anti-Buckley supporters continue to use W/L what would you/they have to say if we win more than last year?

 

[ottoman]

Maybe just maybe because he has improved the team significantly on the back of last year. Our highest losing margin is 37 points, with our average losing margin at about 20 points. This time last year it was about 7 goals!

Was it the right move to appoint him senior coach at the beginning of 2012? Without having done any apprenticeship of note, away from the footy club? Absolutely not!
Was it right to have given him 4 different footy managers over the last 4-6 years? Absolutely not!

Was it the right call to axe so many senior players over a 2-3 year stretch like he did?
Absolutely YES!
With the exceptions of the retirees such as Ball, Didak, Jolly, Tarrant, Johnson, Davis, Krakouer etc...Who has gone elsewhere and got BETTER?

Can you include last year and 2015 in your summations when all of you must acknowledge he had a terrible, just terrible run of injuries?

So, my opinion here is simple. When the senior coach has improved the playing list one year to the next, and has their unwavering support, why would change? Forget the years prior, we all acknowledge he should NOT have been given the position, but that is not the mans fault. The board yes, but not his.

So with ALL of the goodwill and trust he has earned with the playing group, player by player, as well as the experiences and hardships he has had to endure over the last 3-4 years, which ASSISTANT coach out there, who has never sat in the bloody hot seat, will do better?

I know it is tough, I get the emotional roller coaster and I understand where some of you want him gone, but I feel it would be the WORST and I mean the worst decision the football club could make now.

Not being a smart arse but did you see the football we played today.
After 6 years that is the best we can do.
Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, stop, prop and eventually turn ball over.
There have only been 2 occasions this year where I have been excited about the way we play, first half against Crows and can't remember the second but there was one.
The problem is there is no improvement. And quoting a reduced average losing margin as a good sign really is clutching at straws.

 

[ZEV]

Not being a smart arse but did you see the football we played today.
After 6 years that is the best we can do.
Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, stop, prop and eventually turn ball over.
There have only been 2 occasions this year where I have been excited about the way we play, first half against Crows and can't remember the second but there was one.
The problem is there is no improvement. And quoting a reduced average losing margin as a good sign really is clutching at straws.

Beating the swans by a point at the SCG?

The six goal quarter to blow the game apart against Geelong?

The comeback against Hawthorn?

 

[ottoman]

Beating the swans by a point at the SCG?

The six goal quarter to blow the game apart against Geelong?

The comeback against Hawthorn?

The comeback against Hawthorn.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

The comeback against Hawthorn.

I watched that game a few times.. yes it was a great comeback.. but the football itself still left a lot to be desired. Watch it again.. still very scrappy.

 

[ottoman]

I watched that game a few times.. yes it was a great comeback.. but the football itself still left a lot to be desired. Watch it again.. still very scrappy.

Actually gimp the other game I was thinking of was the win against the West Coast. It clicked a while after I posted this but I couldn't be effed editing it.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Actually gimp the other game I was thinking of was the win against the West Coast. It clicked a while after I posted this but I couldn't be effed editing it.

After being 3/4 goals down in the last.. 3 quarters of rubbish really. Seriously not over exaggerating here.. haven't enjoyed watching us play since the start of 2012. Really nomadic and clueless.

 

[ottoman]

After being 3/4 goals down in the last.. 3 quarters of rubbish really. Seriously not over exaggerating here.. haven't enjoyed watching us play since the start of 2012. Really nomadic and clueless.

I am with you gimp. But that final qtr against WC was exciting as was the first half against the Crows. But that's it. 20 rounds of football and as far as exciting football to watch that is all we have to show. 3 qtrs in total.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I am with you gimp. But that final qtr against WC was exciting as was the first half against the Crows. But that's it. 20 rounds of football and as far as exciting football to watch that is all we have to show. 3 qtrs in total.

It's really strange. There is no reason to want to give him an extention.. to say that he has coached well at times is an indictment on the entire coaching fraternity.. any assistant in charge would have won us 8 games this yr and would have coached good footy.

It's not ok for say Buckley to get us to say 12 wins next yr when another coach would get us a coupla extra wins at 14.. that's what I'm looking for.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

That first half yesterday was a disgrace. How the board is even considering giving him an extension has me beat. He is awful, he is producing indecisive, boring, unattractive footy. Hell we beat Norf and there was no joy cos it was so shit to watch, I can't stomach anymore of his crap coaching. The club stands for mediocrity.

 

[doodles98]

The comeback against Hawthorn.

That first quarter against the Swans was pretty special .. we were like Hawthorn in their prime with our field kicking. Then it was like someone turned off the tap and we went back to our normal shite selves for the next 3 qtrs. It was bizarre.

Yep.. we don't play a brand that gives us supporters much pleasure I'm afraid.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Do I think he's had enough time.. absolutely.

Will a new coach deliver finals next year? Doubtful..

We have put together a list with not enough pace and far too many suspect kicks.

Crisp, Maynard, Berg's left, Adams, Treloar, Greenwood, Phillips, Langdon, Sidebottom.
If those 9 are onthe field at the same time, half the players could butcher the ball at any time.

Bucks and Hine should be moved on now.

New coach and list manager appointed as soon as possible because some tough calls need to be made.

 

[TKiL]

Some one else quoted that we made 12 GF's in 60 years for 3 wins.
WTF has a delusion culture got to do with failing at the last hurdle?

Surely a delusional culture would have precluded us making 12/60 GF's.

it is a complete myth that our poor GF results are due to any single factor, given the massive turnover in players, adminstrators, processes, rules of the game, and influence of AFL HQ over this time.

It is a complete red herring that is trotted out at any hint of trouble or poor performance.

1. Over its history Cwood has lost ~ twice as many GFs as it's won - ie we've won ~ 1/3 of the GFs we've played. This is a bit of a pattern - one constant in all this is Cwood's "culture" - You need everything going right to win a GF. Culture off = problem. I suggest culture has quite a bit TF to do with Cwood's GF record compared to say Hawthorn's.

2. I didn't suggest culture was the only problem - it's a contributing factor.

3. What do you mean by massive turnover in processes? Are you referring to evolving game styles?

4. I suggest that over the past few years there has been more than a hint of trouble / poor performance at Cwood.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Not sure if this is the right thread but I believe brad hardies story that Ross Lyon approached Collingwood and got knocked back.

It's the sort of thing Lyon would do and already has form for.

Or maybe I just want to believe it....

 

[Countrypie]

After being 3/4 goals down in the last.. 3 quarters of rubbish really. Seriously not over exaggerating here.. haven't enjoyed watching us play since the start of 2012. Really nomadic and clueless.

No defnce of BUckley in this response but I think this is a generic thing about the way te game is played across the competition. The game I enjoyed as a kid has long gone. Time and space are now at a premium. Sydney's brand is a rolling scrappy maul reliant upon slingshot footy. HAwthorn's has been chip and hold posession. The dogs was madball on steroids. All teams have a variation of what is essentially an ugly game plan. Pure football as was played even 20 years ago is gone

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

No defnce of BUckley in this response but I think this is a generic thing about the way te game is played across the competition. The game I enjoyed as a kid has long gone. Time and space are now at a premium. Sydney's brand is a rolling scrappy maul reliant upon slingshot footy. HAwthorn's has been chip and hold posession. The dogs was madball on steroids. All teams have a variation of what is essentially an ugly game plan. Pure football as was played even 20 years ago is gone

Yep I don't think "buckleys game plan is boring and ugly" is an argument one way or the other about whether he should stay as coach.

 

[Countrypie]

Yep I don't think "buckleys game plan is boring and ugly" is an argument one way or the other about whether he should stay as coach.

I can still remember a time when Geelong were laughed at for playing "pretty football" whereas teh powerhouses of the time were very unscientific and direct in their style. WHne you go back and watch some Youtube videos of 70s football there is so much space. The space that just isn't there anymore

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Funny but I am actually old enough to remember Nathan's entire career. And while I am one his most staunch supporters now, I was not when he was a player.

Great player, but incredibly self-centred and selfish.
Through both actions and by listening intently to the words of his players now, could not be further from what he represents as a coach.

Trust me, my view is incredibly measured and educated. Nothing to do with what he achieved as a player.

lol.

 

[HFF]

I've seen a couple of posts to this effect. If we do end up winning 1 of the next 2, or even the next 2 - not an impossible task - would you agree we have improved?

I think it's well known that the pro-Buckley supporters have been using other evidence besides W/L to suggest we have improved regardless, but given the anti-Buckley supporters continue to use W/L what would you/they have to say if we win more than last year?

We would have to win both games- which is highly unlikely.
Winning one is a break even on a W/L front.

I've gone beyond the W/L many times.
Performances are also key when measuring Buckley.
I don't subscribe to just being "competitive" without blowouts to justify improvement.

When you look at our game style- it's evident the performances aren't there.
We lost to Port by 4 goals or so yet it was a truly awful performance.
The week before we smashed North yet the performance again was awful.

That's two games in back to back weeks that were horrible games of footy and the common denominator in both of them was Collingwood.

Performances will tend to dictate results.
Our results are a reflection of the performances.

The responsibility on performance rests with the coach.

This is why I don't think we can improve and won't under Buckley.
The performances are evidence that the way we play footy may limit the damage control but we won't ever be a team that others watch and think "these guys can play".

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

That first quarter against the Swans was pretty special .. we were like Hawthorn in their prime with our field kicking. Then it was like someone turned off the tap and we went back to our normal shite selves for the next 3 qtrs. It was bizarre.

Yep.. we don't play a brand that gives us supporters much pleasure I'm afraid.

Because Sydney reset at quarter time and changed their structures. Nafan sat there and had no plan B (as per usual). He tried it again yesterday and Port sat back and refused to chase the ball carrier so we went backwards, sideways and then tried to kick into a flooded forward 50. dumb, he is so dumb.

 

[Justlokan]

Funny but I am actually old enough to remember Nathan's entire career. And while I am one his most staunch supporters now, I was not when he was a player.

Great player, but incredibly self-centred and selfish.
Through both actions and by listening intently to the words of his players now, could not be further from what he represents as a coach.

Trust me, my view is incredibly measured and educated. Nothing to do with what he achieved as a player.

To be fair, he did become more inclusive and was a better leader towards the end of his career. And strangely enough his coaching has actually improved even though ladder results suggest otherwise. He may not have the natural coaching gifts of a Bevo but he has won me back with his recent coaching performances.

My main criticism was that he wasn't provided with the senior mentor that (a) MM was supposed to be and (b) the club didn't provide once MM left (Rocket was mistakenly miscast as the Football Mgr).

On this point I'd be keen to consider Rocket returning as a designated mentor with no off-field responsibilities.

 

[ThexderX]

“Anyone who’s talking about what’s going on with the coaching at Collingwood is making it up, completely making it up because no one has any visibility on this other than me,” he said on Triple M.

Eddie's ego is bigger than I even gave credit for...the man is running this club like its his own play thing.

This is the Collingwood Football Club, not the Eddie and Bucks Boys Club.

 

[Matt_352]

“Anyone who’s talking about what’s going on with the coaching at Collingwood is making it up, completely making it up because no one has any visibility on this other than me,” he said on Triple M.

Eddie's ego is bigger than I even gave credit for...the man is running this club like its his own play thing.

This is the Collingwood Football Club, not the Eddie and Bucks Boys Club.

Seems like it is the way the boys club and ed are carrying on. Needs to be stopped.

 

[ant22]

“Anyone who’s talking about what’s going on with the coaching at Collingwood is making it up, completely making it up because no one has any visibility on this other than me,” he said on Triple M.

Eddie's ego is bigger than I even gave credit for...the man is running this club like its his own play thing.

This is the Collingwood Football Club, not the Eddie and Bucks Boys Club.

Wowser, geez he is full of himself. No bigger ego in this town than Eddies.