Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

[regpies]

Regarding drafts and trades. Someone asked this question:
"
have long subscribed to the theory that ED and Pert are more the problem than Bux.

And I hope for the good of the club they go, and we can move forward.

However, our list in very unbalanced, we have far too many inside mids, and lack of key forwards, and IMO this has been the difference between 5 wins and 10 wins.

It is obvious we lack outside speed, and a couple of KPP. Who misread the way the game was going, in 2014 and 2015 we went for all inside mids, now our list is full of them?

The way I see it, we get it inside 50 more than enough, but the way our game style is set up due to lack of the right type of player, we get beaten by the well structured teams.

Someone has to take responsibility for this, is it ultimately NB or is it recurring depth?"

The Scout response:
" Well, firstly, whilst i get the chorus of wanting a spine, there have been a few factors at play as to why we haven't ended up with one...

1. KPP are few and far between
2. You probably need early picks to get them in the doors - or you are better off waiting until later in the draft to pick up project types (probably the way DH has seen it)
3. We had other shortfalls in the eyes of those making decisions
4. (This being your point) The club decided that the modern game was more about midfielders playing multiple roles

It is my belief that the list management and game style etc rests with the Football department - but so many faces in key roles have come and gone in a short time, the easiest people to blame are NB and DH. But that would be wrong IMHO.

Some would view it as a miscellany of mismanagement.

I do, as stated though, believe that Nathan has a certain type of player that he prefers to coach/teach."

And some more
" Can I just say that I don't disagree?

Posting on a board like this (and trying to do my day job!) means I have addressed some issues but not all.

I agree totally that NB needs to shoulder his share of the blame, no question.

My observations of Nathan is that his single mindedness extends into inflexibility. He sees the issues on match day, but refuses to adjust and get with the flow of the game. This is the fine line of balancing trust in your players & the game plan 'in theory' & ego & what is happening on the field. Nathan is a believer in 'staying the course' and as such, can be 10 minutes late with crucial manoeuvres IMHO

Like everyone here, I walk the line of backing Nathan in...or wanting a compete sweep out. It is not as easy as simply removing the coach and it being a new place.

As i have said in multiple posts - if Nathan goes, I would think any new coach would be wanting some clear direction of what will change around and above."

On Hine:
" Subject: Let me tell you this about DH
In reply to: Mick 's message, "Why did Hine pass on Wright in 2014 then Scout?" on 14:23 14/07/17 Fri

Even those in the recruiting group have no idea who is going to call out on Draft Day.
Perhaps Matt or Dominic, but few others.

He is known to hold his cards exceptionally tightly.

I have no TRUE idea why he passed or picked any player."

Subject: Types yes
In reply to: Mick 's message, "Surely they have an idea what type they recruit?" on 18:04 14/07/17 Fri

Actual names...no

I don't have a problem with the clubs strategy of going for midfielders. I understand the logic that back in 2014 it was obvious that at some point interchanges could go as low as 60 in the future. With those reduced interchanges you can get an advantage by having a lot of midfielders rotating through.

The problem is we recruited the wrong type of midfielders. Average kicks who aren't quick or flexible enough to play multiple roles.

 

[Toecrusher]

I think even Buckley's harshest critics would acknowledge that after the weekends win, he deserves another year.

No doubt about this..... My understanding is the AFL are going to hold open 8th position on the ladder for us, because Buck really, really, really deserves a finals spot. Even the harshest judge of footy talent knows we should be playing off in the finals, and what team wouldn't stand aside from the finals to gift the golden child a finals birth (sarcasim).

Let's all remember, it's not wins that count, it's not even how many good players your team has, it all comes down to how many media simpathisers you can recruit. What's that old saying, "nice guys finish last".

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I don't have a problem with the clubs strategy of going for midfielders. I understand the logic that back in 2014 it was obvious that at some point interchanges could go as low as 60 in the future. With those reduced interchanges you can get an advantage by having a lot of midfielders rotating through.

The problem is we recruited the wrong type of midfielders. Average kicks who aren't quick or flexible enough to play multiple roles.

But we have been widely accepted as having the best midfield list in the league.

This midfield was built for Moore and Cloke.. don't underestimate how much of an impact having Cloke around until 2016 has had on our lack of interest in recruiting a KPF. Now we're feeling the effects of it BC he failed to perform.

 

[Toecrusher]

I don't have a problem with the clubs strategy of going for midfielders. I understand the logic that back in 2014 it was obvious that at some point interchanges could go as low as 60 in the future. With those reduced interchanges you can get an advantage by having a lot of midfielders rotating through.

The problem is we recruited the wrong type of midfielders. Average kicks who aren't quick or flexible enough to play multiple roles.

You're right. Put simply, we do dumb stuff.

 

[F_therest]

I don't have a problem with the clubs strategy of going for midfielders. I understand the logic that back in 2014 it was obvious that at some point interchanges could go as low as 60 in the future. With those reduced interchanges you can get an advantage by having a lot of midfielders rotating through.

The problem is we recruited the wrong type of midfielders. Average kicks who aren't quick or flexible enough to play multiple roles.

This is true...the dogs won a premiership with Boyd, Roughead, Campbell, Redpath, Cordy, Hamling and Roberts as their KPP players on the list.

On paper that's just about the worst group of KPP's in the comp...but they made it work. Boyd the only 'big name' and he was terrible all year except for the Grand Final.

Their premiership was built on their small/medium runners.

 

[PendlePie]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-18/mcguire-buckley-to-set-hysteria-aside-over-pies-future

"We sit down and maturely look at the list and whether injuries have cruelled us again this year. All those types of things.

"When you take the hysteria out of it it's pretty straightforward. You work out whether there's a future going on or whether there's not."

Propositioning (unrealistic) excuses for Buckley already. The pure, uncontrollable delusion begins from our hilariously biased and selfish president.

 

[Adz]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-18/mcguire-buckley-to-set-hysteria-aside-over-pies-future



Propositioning (unrealistic) excuses for Buckley already. The pure, uncontrollable delusion begins from our hilariously biased and selfish president.

Injuries have cruelled us to an extent. If we fail in 2018 he goes, very clear cut. It's not so obvious that he time is up right this second, which is why a one year rolling contract is what he should get.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-18/mcguire-buckley-to-set-hysteria-aside-over-pies-future



Propositioning (unrealistic) excuses for Buckley already. The pure, uncontrollable delusion begins from our hilariously biased and selfish president.

Looks like my bougeios theory has been proven to be correct.

 

[doodles98]

Injuries have cruelled us to an extent. If we fail in 2018 he goes, very clear cut. It's not so obvious that he time is up right this second, which is why a one year rolling contract is what he should get.

Injuries are not a factor in our performance this year. Good clubs don't use the injury excuse. We've become pathetic and Ed leads from the top in that regard.

 

[Matt_352]

Injuries have cruelled us to an extent. If we fail in 2018 he goes, very clear cut. It's not so obvious that he time is up right this second, which is why a one year rolling contract is what he should get.

No way no how has he earnt another year.

 

[JackoSpades]

i dont believe its so clear cut. our list has major holes in it, yet we havent been flogged in games. the easiest solution when looking at ladder posistion over the years is to dump thr coach, not sure that it is the solution though.

 

[Vicky Park]

While I appreciate the sentiment that Ed expressed in that article, about the club 'not doing the wrong thing' by Buckley, that statement in itself is problematic. Buckley is not greater than the club, and his future does not take precedence over the future of the club.

I expect (hope) that it's a typical foot in mouth, off the cuff, statement by Ed, with well-meaning but poorly expressed intent. Did he mean to say that if we push Bucks out, then we'll do it with dignity?

But if thats not the case, and Ed really is putting the coach before all else, then we have a serious problem.

 

[jdpie]

While I appreciate the sentiment that Ed expressed in that article, about the club 'not doing the wrong thing' by Buckley, that statement in itself is problematic. Buckley is not greater than the club, and his future does not take precedence over the future of the club.

I expect (hope) that it's a typical foot in mouth, off the cuff, statement by Ed, with well-meaning but poorly expressed intent. Did he mean to say that if we push Bucks out, then we'll do it with dignity?

But if thats not the case, and Ed really is putting the coach before all else, then we have a serious problem.

We already have a serious problem. All bar those that are the crux of it are able to see it.

 

[Anzacday]

Imagine if the players were interviewed as part of the review and they all said they loved Bucks.
They also added they're sick of Pert interfering and his constant sniping.
If they took it a step further and said they get what Bucks is trying to do with the game plan but they're confused on match day by their line coach.
What would happen then?

 

[doodles98]

While I appreciate the sentiment that Ed expressed in that article, about the club 'not doing the wrong thing' by Buckley, that statement in itself is problematic. Buckley is not greater than the club, and his future does not take precedence over the future of the club.

I expect (hope) that it's a typical foot in mouth, off the cuff, statement by Ed, with well-meaning but poorly expressed intent. Did he mean to say that if we push Bucks out, then we'll do it with dignity?

But if thats not the case, and Ed really is putting the coach before all else, then we have a serious problem.

I think it reveals his true mindset there unfortunately.
It is also yet another example of our leader failing in one of his primary roles... Intelligently articulating on behalf of the club.

 

[10571z]

You not what they say about bad decisions, if you keep doing it then you are making 2 bad decisions.

Buckley goes sadly.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Imagine if the players were interviewed as part of the review and they all said they loved Bucks.
They also added they're sick of Pert interfering and his constant sniping.
If they took it a step further and said they get what Bucks is trying to do with the game plan but they're confused on match day by their line coach.
What would happen then?

What the players want is academic.

Buckley appoints and controls the line coaches, if its mixed messages, its his fault.

He goes at a well run club, at the Pies we give him a merit badge for trying and extend his contract.

 

[mattys123]

Bucks biggest fan isn't going anywhere. Ed basically commits to 2020. I hate that he keeps saying that the members voted him in though. That's bullshit. About 20% of our club members are allowed to vote (social club only). The rest simply are not.

 

[Anzacday]

What the players want is academic.

Buckley appoints and controls the line coaches, if its mixed messages, its his fault.

He goes at a well run club, at the Pies we give him a merit badge for trying and extend his contract.

1/ Players matter - Sydney/Roos.
2/ I've heard differently on the second point.
3/ Agree. We are not a well run club and I'm hypothesising on the off chance the blame falls elsewhere.

 

[jdpie]

What the players want is academic.

Buckley appoints and controls the line coaches, if its mixed messages, its his fault.

He goes at a well run club, at the Pies we give him a merit badge for trying and extend his contract.

Conversely at a well run club he has 1 football manager for the last 5 years. He is not able to open up jobs for the boys and is required to have a diverse assistant coaching panel. Has a CEO that does not interfere with all things football.
Do you really think the coach appoints anyone at an AFL club without the full sign off from the CEO and the Board ? The only autocrat at the Holden Centre is Ed.
Fault is an interesting concept.
Change of personnel will happen. Bucks may go (and unfortunately it is probably the only thing that will illicit drastic change) but we will not move forward without significant cultural change from the most senior people.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

1/ Players matter - Sydney/Roos.
2/ I've heard differently on the second point.
3/ Agree. We are not a well run club and I'm hypothesising on the off chance the blame falls elsewhere.

Oh I am sure McGuire is trying to manipulate the system to save Bucks (and himself). Numerous attempts are being made to cloud the waters about what has gone wrong.

Roos was in interim coach who actually did a good job re on field results as well as getting the players onside. Same cannot be said for Buckley. He has failed to advance the club.

 

[Anzacday]

Oh I am sure McGuire is trying to manipulate the system to save Bucks (and himself). Numerous attempts are being made to cloud the waters about what has gone wrong.

Roos was in interim coach who actually did a good job re on field results as well as getting the players onside. Same cannot be said for Buckley. He has failed to advance the club.

Not comparing the coaches, just making the point players' opinions can matter.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Not comparing the coaches, just making the point players' opinions can matter.

Yes, but the context is important. I can see the line coaches, Pert and Davorean getting the arse. I can see Gubby taking over list management from Hine and Eddie will then say Bucks is set.

 

[Scribe26]

Bucks biggest fan isn't going anywhere. Ed basically commits to 2020. I hate that he keeps saying that the members voted him in though. That's bullshit. About 20% of our club members are allowed to vote (social club only). The rest simply are not.

Can you talk me through the obstacles in your way to becoming a social club member?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

MMM's Hot Breakfast‏Verified account @mmmhotbreakfast 2h2 hours ago
So the upshot of all of that "I'm not going anywhere!" - Eddie McGuire @CollingwoodFC