Society/Culture The Abortion Thread

[Maggie5]

I was curious as to your views on the ‘your body, your choice’ argument about pregnancy, when beyond a certain point modern medicine and our legal system doesn’t actually allow it.

I live in Vic so the legal system according to the link doesn't disallow at any point.

I am not sure what situations modern medicine would intervene, can you give examples?

 

[faible]

I live in Vic so the legal system according to the link doesn't disallow at any point.

I am not sure what situations modern medicine would intervene, can you give examples?

Beyond 24 weeks it would take exceptional circumstances to be allowed, so I’d say at that point modern medicine suggests a fetus is likely to be viable if delivered.

It appears that unless there was an exceptional circumstance a pregnant woman could be compelled to carry the fetus or would otherwise risk being charged with a criminal offence.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I thought it was just based around the viability of the fetus being born before / after the 24 week cutoff.

Sure, from a current legal standpoint....But I was more referring to the overall issue from a moral & philosophical perspective.

 

[faible]

Sure, from a current legal standpoint....But I was more referring to the overall issue from a moral & philosophical perspective.

Ah, yes a different discussion that one. I can understand why there’s a range of views on this; time of conception, time of viability or time of independent life all seem to have reasonable arguments.

 

[Maggie5]

Beyond 24 weeks it would take exceptional circumstances to be allowed, so I’d say at that point modern medicine suggests a fetus is likely to be viable if delivered.

I really don't understand what you are saying here. The law has allowed for that, see my link.

It appears that unless there was an exceptional circumstance a pregnant woman could be compelled to carry the fetus or would otherwise risk being charged with a criminal offence.

Where are you getting this information from?

 

[faible]

I really don't understand what you are saying here. The law has allowed for that, see my link.


Where are you getting this information from?

The laws you quote specifically mention it being very uncommon for an abortion to be performed at that stage (> 24 weeks) of pregnancy.

 

[Maggie5]

The laws you quote specifically mention it being very uncommon for an abortion to be performed at that stage (> 24 weeks) of pregnancy.

Think we have contributed enough to derailing this thread.

 

[chelseacarlton]

I'm not sure we are communicating properly here, because that's way over the top and politics or religion is nothing to do with what I'm taking talking about. It's specifically the opposite as far as I'm concerned.

I say abortion is not about women's rights (regarding birth control or otherwise) because the whole issue is predicated on the point of where a fertilised egg is considered a life form. It's not a cut and dry thing at all. There are various definitions of this depending on what state of what country you are in, or which medical standard you look up (WHO Vs National Regulators Vs your GP etc). There's no consensus which makes the contention of when life starts self-evident.

So assuming you reach a position on where life starts (wherever that is) you then have to consider how that relates to the point at which intervening in the fertilisation and pregnancy process is acceptable. This is a moral and ethical issue that is also framed within acceptable cultural and legal guidelines. And again, all of those things will differ depending on which one you ascribe to, or where you live etc.

Once you've figured out where life begins, and then made the determination about where a life (or otherwise categorised entity) can be interfered woth, you can have a position on abortion, but you can't say "It's a woman's issue alone" in any way. For every "cluster of cells" there is a father and their wishes to contend with, there's the social issues and considerations about whether the state should be offering abortion services and myriad other concerns, all of which either directly or indirectly affect men too. Of course there's the whole thing about the sex of that developing human also perhaps being a male too, so it's certainly not exclusive effecting women.

Abortion is a moral, ethical, social and genderless issue. No religion or politics necessary.

Okay cool.

First,foremost and fundamentally before morality ethics health wealth science religion politics philosophy consensus... vibe get involved, human rights always takes precedence, full stop!
In Utero “will” be superceded in the next 50 years.
Out of Utero,if it has not been closely perfected already,from 2030 the human race will no longer require the female human biological womb to raise our species.

Your concerns in intellectualising a process that won’t require him or her in the conception,biological pregnancy and mother father child relationship entropy.
Essentially I don’t want a human to tell my daughter what and how she should treat “HER” body!
Capiche?

 

[Procrastinator35]

First,foremost and fundamentally before morality ethics health wealth science religion politics philosophy consensus... vibe get involved, human rights always takes precedence, full stop!
In Utero “will” be superceded in the next 50 years.
Out of Utero,if it has not been closely perfected already,from 2030 the human race will no longer require the female human biological womb to raise our species.

You've been watching too much sci-fi again.

The invasion of the body snatchers pods are quite a way off as yet.

 

[ShanDog]

Okay cool.

First,foremost and fundamentally before morality ethics health wealth science religion politics philosophy consensus... vibe get involved, human rights always takes precedence, full stop!

That's exactly what I'm talking about - human rights. Those morality, ethics, health, philosophy etc aspects are what makes society decide what a right is. And in the case of the unborn, there's no consensus I'm aware of, and many valid schools of thought.

In Utero “will” be superceded in the next 50 years.
Out of Utero,if it has not been closely perfected already,from 2030 the human race will no longer require the female human biological womb to raise our species.

Ok, but that's irrelevant to right now.

Your concerns in intellectualising a process that won’t require him or her in the conception,biological pregnancy and mother father child relationship entropy.
Essentially I don’t want a human to tell my daughter what and how she should treat “HER” body!

This is the same reductive reasoning of "My body, my choice." The whole discussion about pro life / pro choice is whether or not that's the case. So you haven't really provided anything to address the issues that make that statement either true or false! As I said, I'm not sure what the answer is. But I know for a fact that slogans aren't arguments.

 

[chelseacarlton]

What a great deflection from the Cardinal. Stop people talking about kiddy-fiddlers and debating the undefinable issue underlying abortion.

How many children were born of the rape of children or pubescent girls that ended up rearing children from those rapes?
Apologies might be in order?!
But no,let’s discuss with George that homo-sapiens evolved from Neanderthals.
He’s a degenerate and if you don’t agree, then you join him in my opinion of you and him!
Maggot!

Think that you may have missed my point - my body, my decision.

YES
And if this Law of Science Morality Humanity is ever challenged,just know that we will win,so stop trying!

 

[chelseacarlton]

You've been watching too much sci-fi again.

The invasion of the body snatchers pods are quite a way off as yet.

As a conspiracist I’d have thought you were intelligent enough to know about what the CIA has been up to?!

 

[Procrastinator35]

As a conspiracist I’d have thought you were intelligent enough to know about what the CIA has been up to?!

The C.I.A are principally interested in another style of 'body-bag' altogether.

 

[Leeda]

The C.I.A are principally interested in another style of 'body-bag' altogether.

cheating on your children is one thing as well s cheating on your wife.. count that as a substitute for all the evils of the world..

 

[Procrastinator35]

cheating on your children is one thing as well s cheating on your wife.. count that as a substitute for all the evils of the world..

You seem to have me confused with a fella called Barnaby.

 

[Leeda]

You seem to have me confused with a fella called Barnaby.

I don't confuse anyone but if you want to be confused go ahead...

just don't screw anyone else and you won't screw with me..

It is serious and will not be shoved under the carpet...

 

[Procrastinator35]

I don't confuse anyone but if you want to be confused go ahead...

just don't screw anyone else and you won't screw with me..

It is serious and will not be shoved under the carpet...

Save it for the cryptic crossword....Enigma's are no substitute for clarity & breadth of vision.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The C.I.A are principally interested in another style of 'body-bag' altogether.

What is your position Pro-35?

 

[chelseacarlton]

I don't confuse anyone but if you want to be confused go ahead...

just don't screw anyone else and you won't screw with me..

It is serious and will not be shoved under the carpet...

Lol
From a position of weakness!
Pathetic dude!

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

How many children were born of the rape of children or pubescent girls that ended up rearing children from those rapes?
Apologies might be in order?!
But no,let’s discuss with George that homo-sapiens evolved from Neanderthals.
He’s a degenerate and if you don’t agree, then you join him in my opinion of you and him!
Maggot!

YES
And if this Law of Science Morality Humanity is ever challenged,just know that we will win,so stop trying!

I suspect that those, and there are many of them, mostly women, who hold the view that human life begins some time well before birth, will never stop trying to eradicate what they consider to be the mass killing of innocent children.

Sexually abusing a human is contemptible. Killing is worse.

Your lot blew it on abortion when you started boasting about the eradication of Downs Syndrome.

 

[Leeda]

Lol
From a position of weakness!
Pathetic dude!

that is absolutely deplorable. you are trying to climb out of the weakness.

 

[Leeda]

Lol
From a position of weakness!
Pathetic dude!

that is you dude.. shovels at twenty paces..

 

[chelseacarlton]

That's exactly what I'm talking about - human rights. Those morality, ethics, health, philosophy etc aspects are what makes society decide what a right is. And in the case of the unborn, there's no consensus I'm aware of, and many valid schools of thought.

Ok, but that's irrelevant to right now.

This is the same reductive reasoning of "My body, my choice." The whole discussion about pro life / pro choice is whether or not that's the case. So you haven't really provided anything to address the issues that make that statement either true or false! As I said, I'm not sure what the answer is. But I know for a fact that slogans aren't arguments.

Yes I have!
Don’t **** with my human daughters rights in accordance with her reproductive rights,is this so simple?

 

[faible]

Yes I have!
Don’t **** with my human daughters rights in accordance with her reproductive rights,is this so simple?

That’s a lot of emotions you’re having.

 

[Admiral Byng]

How many children were born of the rape of children or pubescent girls that ended up rearing children from those rapes?
Apologies might be in order?!
But no,let’s discuss with George that homo-sapiens evolved from Neanderthals.
He’s a degenerate and if you don’t agree, then you join him in my opinion of you and him!
Maggot!

YES
And if this Law of Science Morality Humanity is ever challenged,just know that we will win,so stop trying!

Mods - can we have a special font for sarcasm please? Just so people don't read my posts literally and respond to them like this...