The Academies - 2016

[isamedthegiants]

"Collingwood president Eddie McGuire's ranting and raving might wear thin on some, but even coach Nathan Buckley reckons these kids are coming from established footy heartland.

In short - the large Riverina section of the GWS academy isn't imperative to growing the draft pool because it is now a hot spot for talent"

Chicken and Egg.

With only 2 top 10 draftees since the year 2000 and before 2015, one can mount a compelling case that "it is now a hot spot for talent" because we have been developing the kids and funnelling them away from other sports.

We get denied access, we get to back to the likes of Hamish Macintosh being drafted once every 15 years...

Love the short-sightedness Eddie you germ.

 

[Kwality]

Not sure the real argument is the Riverina, its GWS that the established clubs (Eddie) are worried about.

Collingwood used access to NSW to get Witts (Eagles got Ryan Davis now at the Suns) in a strategy that somehow helped footy in NSW.

 

[gee whiz giant]

If the academies are about developing talent close to home so young kids can play for local teams, one must question why the Riverina is "zoned" to a Sydney based club.
.

Endless BF conjecture. Over on the Giants site, their is a list of players out of the Riverina in the last 20 years. Interesting reading.

Has anyone asked the junior football clubs of the Riverina what they think.
Are GWS intrusive and cherry-picking, or are they resourceful and community based?
Has the GWS Academy helped Riverina kids play Aussie Rules at the highest level?

 

[Experimental]

Even at this early stage though, the whole academy system is destroying the integrity of the competition.

9 of the top 30 are from "academies", with 2 gold coast, 2 brisbane... And 5 gws.

No - the GWS Academy region is destroying the integrity.

Until this year, the Suns have had no draft-worthy academy players to pick up, but have been developing Scheer and Bowes for almost the club's entire existence. Neither of them would have been drafted without the Suns there to train and develop them. This is exactly the same as Brisbane with Hipwood, Keays, etc the year before. And with Heeney and the Swans the year before that.

GWS has the Riverena region in their academy area which has always produced ready made players, and it's a ****ing farce. The GWS Academy has players who'd get picked up in any draft, with or without the academy - and that's not what the academy is for.

Heeney has stated many times that he'd be playing NRL if it weren't for the Swans Academy - and that where the priority lies. The academies should be for developing young Australian athletes who would otherwise we playing another sport. Not for GWS to leech players who are already playing Aussie rules from a young age.

The academy system deserves criticism, but not as a whole. The Suns, Swans, and Lions deserve every player they draft. GWS not so much. Point your finger at the AFL for creating such a ridiculous advantage.

 

[dlanod]

What can they do. Only 1 in 5 players come from SA. You can't just pick SA players if there is no local player near there pick.

Should adelaide get an academy as well.

Only 1 in 5 players come from SA. But Adelaide and Port only employ 1 in 9 players in the league. I'm not suggesting taking local players with every pick, but look at the other clubs that have this advantage - they recruit to take advantage of it.

Also - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-12/sa-and-wa-clubs-get-their-indigenous-and-multicultural-zones

 

[dlanod]

You have proved my point, thx.
You see the real development needs to be done in the GWS area. Thats where every cent and effort should be going. Not into an already rich AFL area. But its obvious it aint about development and totally about access to good talent cheaply.
Its a scam all the way.
Even Sydney, Bris and GC should be pissed about it.

Bother doing some research because this is laughable. Have a look at what GWS is doing in western Sydney and how much time and money they're spending there.

But ultimately you're just going to keep blowing smoke, making unfounded claims, trying to claim there's a fire somewhere without actually bothering to look into anything, so there's really no point in engaging, is there? It will just waste my time showing yet again you're incorrect when your next post (and the next and the next) will be some other shifting of the goalposts into which you've put no actual knowledge or thought.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Bother doing some research because this is laughable. Have a look at what GWS is doing in western Sydney and how much time and money they're spending there.

But ultimately you're just going to keep blowing smoke, making unfounded claims, trying to claim there's a fire somewhere without actually bothering to look into anything, so there's really no point in engaging, is there? It will just waste my time showing yet again you're incorrect when your next post (and the next and the next) will be some other shifting of the goalposts into which you've put no actual knowledge or thought.

It doesn't matter how much good they are doing, if we do not have a balanced competition.

Surely the NSW\QLD sides realise they won't keep the academies if they give them a massive advantage, and would agree to wind some of the areas of concern back. We don't want another COLA or retention allowance fiasco where the teams that got each one 2 or 3 premierships.

Only 1 in 5 players come from SA. But Adelaide and Port only employ 1 in 9 players in the league. I'm not suggesting taking local players with every pick, but look at the other clubs that have this advantage - they recruit to take advantage of it.

Also - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-12/sa-and-wa-clubs-get-their-indigenous-and-multicultural-zones

The fact that 30% of there list is from SA, and only 20% of players come from there they are reaching for them. Should they have picked Ebert over Dangerfield?

 

[Suma Magic]

Well it looks like it's being reviewed.

Inb4 kneejerk reaction.

Hopefully they can address the issues that most clubs have so a sustainable system can be implemented.

 

[dlanod]

It doesn't matter how much good they are doing, if we do not have a balanced competition.

Surely the NSW\QLD sides realise they won't keep the academies if they give them a massive advantage, and would agree to wind some of the areas of concern back. We don't want another COLA or retention allowance fiasco where the teams that got each one 2 or 3 premierships.

Search through this and the other academy threads for my expectation on this - the academies will go away in the next five to ten years. I have no doubt about that. They'll have proven their worth and will be stripped when the pipeline of talent appears to be self-sustaining, so there's no need for the local connection, and when the northern clubs have an equal chance to draft local boys - same as the traditional states.

The worst result is to keep nerfing them now, and then in five years everyone's sitting around going "what the hell happened to AFL in Qld and NSW"... again. But those with a disproportionate mouthpiece and a vested interest in hobbling as many clubs as possible from competing for flags will continue to rail against them, while staying silent on the fundamental parts of the game that assist them.

It's to be expected - it's human nature and it's doing what's best for their club, but that does not mean it's what is best for the AFL if it is truly aiming to be a national sport (with the dollars associated with that, given it is the AFL we're talking about) instead of a southern sport with a vestigial tail pointed up north.

COLA didn't buy any premierships by the way, otherwise how did it work with the Swans retaining it for decades - most of which they were awful to mediocre? The Swans got their act together, they won a premiership and then that was used as an excuse to strip COLA. The retention allowance was the same - it made no difference. The club finally got its act together, so it was used an excuse to strip it. In that case, the club was brutally mismanaged in the following years and we can see the result of that.

The fact that 30% of there list is from SA, and only 20% of players come from there they are reaching for them. Should they have picked Ebert over Dangerfield?

So why is Adelaide only at 33% of their list, while their fellow South Australian club, Port, is at 39%, Fremantle at 39% and West Coast at 60%? Why is Adelaide special?

Funnily enough three of those clubs would be eligible for the old retention allowance as they all have totals below 40%. Might've been handy for the Crows.

 

[dlanod]

Well it looks like it's being reviewed.

Inb4 kneejerk reaction.

Hopefully they can address the issues that most clubs have so a sustainable system can be implemented.

The moment they included the word "thorough" my thoughts went to "oh, so they're stalling for this year at least".

 

[Suma Magic]

The moment they included the word "thorough" my thoughts went to "oh, so they're stalling for this year at least".

Yeah it would unreasonable to change things for this year's draft. Guessing changes will be made for 2017.

 

[Ben Drever]

No - the GWS Academy region is destroying the integrity.

Until this year, the Suns have had no draft-worthy academy players to pick up, but have been developing Scheer and Bowes for almost the club's entire existence. Neither of them would have been drafted without the Suns there to train and develop them. This is exactly the same as Brisbane with Hipwood, Keays, etc the year before. And with Heeney and the Swans the year before that.

GWS has the Riverena region in their academy area which has always produced ready made players, and it's a ******* farce. The GWS Academy has players who'd get picked up in any draft, with or without the academy - and that's not what the academy is for.

Heeney has stated many times that he'd be playing NRL if it weren't for the Swans Academy - and that where the priority lies. The academies should be for developing young Australian athletes who would otherwise we playing another sport. Not for GWS to leech players who are already playing Aussie rules from a young age.

The academy system deserves criticism, but not as a whole. The Suns, Swans, and Lions deserve every player they draft. GWS not so much. Point your finger at the AFL for creating such a ridiculous advantage.

I second this notion.
With Bowes and Scheer they've been with the Suns academy since 13-14yr olds.

GWS have been adding guys who are from the Riverina region as late as the last few months to there academy who are actually living in Melbourne boarding at all the private schools.

These guys who Have been in GWS system for less then 12months yet haven't been anywhere near GWS for any sort of development are the ones rorting the system.
Nominating them and Picking them up with 20% discount etc.

The Suns brang Bowes down from Cairns to live 5mins away from Metricon stadium do they can develop him.

What do GWS do for all there guys in Melbourne private schools.
Buy them new footy boots and there school books?

It's like comparing apples and lemons..

Lemons being GWS

 

[Experimental]

I was actually going through Knightmare's latest ESPN article and I was shocked at how many GWS academy players are currently playing for Sandringham, or the Bushrangers, etc. It's crazy to think that the loophole exists for young talent to play in the TAC competition yet get drafted by a northern club with a 20% discount. Absolutely baffling. Especially given a key part of the academy product is player retention. How can a player who's lived closer to Melbourne than Sydney for their whole live be expected to remain in Western Sydney just because they've been unfortunate enough to live on the NSW/VIC border? Baffling.

 

[go_the_dockers]

So why is Adelaide only at 33% of their list, while their fellow South Australian club, Port, is at 39%, Fremantle at 39% and West Coast at 60%? Why is Adelaide special?

Funnily enough three of those clubs would be eligible for the old retention allowance as they all have totals below 40%. Might've been handy for the Crows.

I don't see a big difference between 33% and 39%, so eagles appear to be the exception.

They brought back in Yeo, Hill, Jetta, (and probably a few more - one from Collingwood whose name I have forgotten) all from interstate so that is probably the difference.

I can not wait until we get a retention allowance If only the AFL cared about WA or SA.

 

[coniglio_number1]

I was actually going through Knightmare's latest ESPN article and I was shocked at how many GWS academy players are currently playing for Sandringham, or the Bushrangers, etc. It's crazy to think that the loophole exists for young talent to play in the TAC competition yet get drafted by a northern club with a 20% discount. Absolutely baffling. Especially given a key part of the academy product is player retention. How can a player who's lived closer to Melbourne than Sydney for their whole live be expected to remain in Western Sydney just because they've been unfortunate enough to live on the NSW/VIC border? Baffling.

Players choose to sign with the academy. They want to be part of GWS so that pokes a big hole in your argument

Also does anyone have any proof to back up the claims that gws sign players to the academy a few months from the draft?

All the eligible academy boys have to be part of the academy for a minimum number of years hence why Weller was ineligible. Didn't take much logic to figure out the truth to the BS being sprouted by salty individuals

 

[Ben Drever]

Players choose to sign with the academy. They want to be part of GWS so that pokes a big hole in your argument

Also does anyone have any proof to back up the claims that gws sign players to the academy a few months from the draft?

All the eligible academy boys have to be part of the academy for a minimum number of years hence why Weller was ineligible. Didn't take much logic to figure out the truth to the BS being sprouted by salty individuals

Cal Twomey said in his draft podcast I think it was in the last week or 1 of his articles, they added some talented junior cricketer who'd never played footy til the last year or 2 and started dominating out of nowhere early this year so GWS signed him to there academy

I think the rules are.

A player must of lived in the zoned area for 5 years to be eligible to be academy drafted.

Not sure there's rules about how late you can come into the academy?

^^^ lachie Weller couldn't be Gold Coast listed because he'd only spent 4 years in QLD.

So GWS academy boys who have boarded at private schools for the past 3-4 years in Melbourne..
Isn't that there place of residence..?
Or it it just where there parents supposably live?

 

[coniglio_number1]

Cal Twomey said in his draft podcast I think it was in the last week or 1 of his articles, they added some talented junior cricketer who'd never played footy til the last year or 2 and started dominating out of nowhere early this year so GWS signed him to there academy

When is this kid eligible to be drafted? And would he fall under eligibility for drafting or not eg Weller?

Most of our academy kids are with us from age 12 and are trained by us until some of them are 16/17 and are offered free elite education due to our development and the parents are free from paying expensive tuition fees.

 

[Ben Drever]

When is this kid eligible to be drafted? And would he fall under eligibility for drafting or not eg Weller?

Most of our academy kids are with us from age 12 and are trained by us until some of them are 16/17 and are offered free elite education due to our development and the parents are free from paying expensive tuition fees.

Can't remember 100%. But think he just said he was added earlier this year.
Don't think anything got mentioned about eligible or discounts etc.

But why would they add someone less then 12months out if they don't have access to him?

 

[coniglio_number1]

Can't remember 100%. But think he just said he was added earlier this year.
Don't think anything got mentioned about eligible or discounts etc.

But why would they add someone less then 12months out if they don't have access to him?

Same reason GC added Weller

 

[coniglio_number1]

If they take away the academy's then we will just go back to cherry picking the best Victorians, South and west Australians.

Thanks for the next batch of Jeremy Cameron's and Dylan shiels!

 

[Cleric]

But you had access to them.

We have no pool upon which to draw any.

Do you know the qualification requirements? Might of well not had one. Same for Port.
If we compare what consessions GWS got with what the Cries got when we started up then you might realize what a real struggle is. For one we were not even allowed to draft players outside of SA.

 

[Colonial]

Do you know the qualification requirements? Might of well not had one. Same for Port.
If we compare what consessions GWS got with what the Cries got when we started up then you might realize what a real struggle is. For one we were not even allowed to draft players outside of SA.

Yeah must be so hard in a heartland area.

 

[Ben Drever]

Todd Marshall and Max lynch recently signed up this year.
Eligible for the 20% discount supposably.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...-come-under-new-scrutiny-20160419-goa8se.html


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...m/news-story/8f0c11b65b9c7561d5bf134055e4d6f8

 

[Ben Drever]

Same reason GC added Weller

We had Weller for 4 years not 8 months unlike GWS

Maybe 4 years ago when we signed him up it was all legit and the rules got changed? No idea

 

[Cleric]

If they take away the academy's then we will just go back to cherry picking the best Victorians, South and west Australians.

Thanks for the next batch of Jeremy Cameron's and Dylan shiels!

Like GWS are only taking kids from their academy. If another Cameron is there in the draft and you have an academy player who isn't quite as good your gonna take another Cameron.
Please.