Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[Blue1980]

My concern is if we don't improve clubs are going to start circling guys like Cripps and Curnow.

And guys with talent who are struggling leave for peanuts and we keep in this never ending cycle.

I mean in 2 years do we trade Weitering and get another high pick? At what point do we actually accept we are shit club with shit people and decide to fix that?

Is it happening now? We will see

 

[RudyBlue]

When have Sydney, Adelaide, Geelong or the Western Bulldogs hit rock bottom recently? Expecting that just bottoming out and starting again will lead to success is a dangerous precedent.

Yeah absolutely.

Didn't really have a choice though

 

[chunkylover53]

When have Sydney, Adelaide, Geelong or the Western Bulldogs hit rock bottom recently? Expecting that just bottoming out and starting again will lead to success is a dangerous precedent.

Yeah you haven't followed footy for long.

• Sydney were rubbish when they moved from South Melbourne, they were a barely functioning club - more like a start up business
• Geelong were the handbaggers and also a basket case - their own captain requested a trade before Bomber Thompson, Brian Cook and Frank Costa came on board. The point of turnaround was their VFL flag in the early 200's.
• Western Bulldogs never hit rock bottom?! Terry Wallace quit with a game to go in 2002, then they hired Peter Rohde who took them to 3 wins and a wooden spoon in 2003 and 14th in 2004 then was sacked! I'm also assuming you forgot the end of 2014 when they sacked McCartney, their captain walked out as did their star no.1 pick? You don't think at that present time things felt like rock bottom for WB fans?
• Adelaide have had dim times but probably not as bad as the aforementioned, always been a strong club backed by SA.

Stick to finding any excuse to lay the boots into SOS pls. It's entertaining.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Yeah you haven't followed footy for long.

• Sydney were rubbish when they moved from South Melbourne, they were a barely functioning club - more like a start up business
• Geelong were the handbaggers and also a basket case - their own captain requested a trade before Bomber Thompson, Brian Cook and Frank Costa came on board. The point of turnaround was their VFL flag in the early 200's.
• Western Bulldogs never hit rock bottom?! Terry Wallace quit with a game to go in 2002, then they hired Peter Rohde who took them to 3 wins and a wooden spoon in 2003 and 14th in 2004 then was sacked! I'm also assuming you forgot the end of 2014 when they sacked McCartney, their captain walked out as did their star no.1 pick? You don't think at that present time things felt like rock bottom for WB fans?
• Adelaide have had dim times but probably not as bad as the aforementioned, always been a strong club backed by SA.

Stick to finding any excuse to lay the boots into SOS pls. It's entertaining.

Play the ball, not the man please. I've seen plenty of football for many, many years.

I'm interested by the fact that you're quoting examples of bottoming out from many, many years ago. Sydney in the early 80's? Please. Geelong bottomed out around 199o9? Interesting. And you think Griffen walking out was rock bottom for the Bulldogs? Wow.

Look, this is not at an attack on SOS, I haven't mentioned him once. But, I struggle to understand why supporters see the "need" to bottom out. Carlton are on track for their fifth wooden spoon in seventeen years? Have they not hit rock bottom yet? Surely the supporters deserve more than this "we need to hit rock bottom" excuse.

 

[chunkylover53]

Play the ball, not the man please. I've seen plenty of football for many, many years.

I'm interested by the fact that you're quoting examples of bottoming out from many, many years ago. Sydney in the early 80's? Please. Geelong bottomed out around 199o9? Interesting. And you think Griffen walking out was rock bottom for the Bulldogs? Wow.

Look, this is not at an attack on SOS, I haven't mentioned him once. But, I struggle to understand why supporters see the "need" to bottom out. Carlton are on track for their fifth wooden spoon in seventeen years? Have they not hit rock bottom yet? Surely the supporters deserve more than this "we need to hit rock bottom" excuse.

Sydney weren't any good until around 1996, exactly 9 years before they won the 2005 flag - you know it takes around that long to get a club together right? Richmond took 8 under Hardwick, Bomber 6 etc.

Geelong were a bit of a laughing stock of the competition being the handbaggers and bottomed out in 1999 and also had a bit of luck collecting an abundance of Father Sons, again they won the flag 8 years later in 2007... Sensing a theme here? I grew up in Geelong and the late 90s and early 2000's they were not a happy club.

Yes, at the end of 2014 the Western Bulldogs experienced yet another disappointing year, sacked another coach and their captain walked out on them. That was a seriously grim time for the club and you are dreaming if it wasn't.

Carlton needed to bottom out because our list was totally ****ed and in order to get a good combination of players and leaders through the door you need some high draft picks. No need to hit rock bottom that's just something fans like to say to protect themselves from things getting worse - like a toxic relationship. What else would you like supporters to do? Serious question.

 

[Damon_3388]

When have Sydney, Adelaide, Geelong or the Western Bulldogs hit rock bottom recently? Expecting that just bottoming out and starting again will lead to success is a dangerous precedent.

2012 (5 wins, and a woeful percentage of just 67) wasn't "rock bottom" for the Bulldogs?

 

[SickQwon]

2012 (5 wins, and a woeful percentage of just 67) wasn't "rock bottom" for the Bulldogs?

Haha

 

[PP34]

The only A grade potential player he’s drafted at Carlton is Curnow and he was desperate to trade that pick for Tomlinson as most Blues fans have forgotten.

Who was he meant to draft instead then?

The only high draft pick that looks like a clear mistake so far is Oliver over Weitering and nobody in their right mind would have said no to Weitering back then.

It’s hilarious when people like you make definitive statements about kids playing in their first few seasons of footy.

Out of the kids he has drafted I’ve seen plenty of things to like.

Go watch the last 4 rounds, he is shy around the contest and often gets caught with the ball. Not saying he won’t be a good player but he’s got a long way to go, I would have Fisher slightly ahead tbh.

He had a limited pre season and doesn’t have a strong body yet.

I’d much rather him play the role he played last year as a HFF/mid but because we’re so limited he’s been playing as an on baller. If you watched him last season and in junior footy you’d realise he’s not one to be shy around the contest.

 

[PP34]

Weitering does not have A grade talent.

Suggest you go and watch his first year where he looked completely different to how he is now.

Clearly just down on confidence right now and needs to improve in certain areas.

He’s playing arguably the hardest position for a youngster to play. Particularly when your defence is being bombarded with forward 50 entries.

 

[adammania9]

Most teams load up on mids, Carlton loaded up on KPP talent, Blues need to stock up on mids which should happen as they aren't finishing higher then bottom 4 over the next 2 years at least.

Will take another 3 years.

I do find it intriguing that the Pies were criticised for targeting mids at the beginning of our rebuild and we suffered as a result of not picking KPP’s first who would have come in and developed by now. On the other side of the spectrum, the Blues went all tall and to begin and now their midfield is ugly weak since their best picks are lanky talls all of whom are struggling except for CCurnow.

Just as important to rebuilds as KPP’s are big bodied midfielders, a type of player they completely ignored.


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[Damon_3388]

Just as important to rebuilds as KPP’s are big bodied midfielders, a type of player they completely ignored.

What is Patrick Cripps?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Play the ball, not the man please. I've seen plenty of football for many, many years.

I'm interested by the fact that you're quoting examples of bottoming out from many, many years ago. Sydney in the early 80's? Please. Geelong bottomed out around 199o9? Interesting. And you think Griffen walking out was rock bottom for the Bulldogs? Wow.

Look, this is not at an attack on SOS, I haven't mentioned him once. But, I struggle to understand why supporters see the "need" to bottom out. Carlton are on track for their fifth wooden spoon in seventeen years? Have they not hit rock bottom yet? Surely the supporters deserve more than this "we need to hit rock bottom" excuse.

I love the way you say play the ball not the man, but you consistently find yourself in these threads that take pot shots at Carlton, or liking posts from others that rip shit into us. You might not get stuck into individual posters but you clearly have an agenda.
You’ve already put your foot in your mouth using the Doggies as an example. It’s also useless using Sydney, Adelaide and Geelong as they did their rebuilds a while ago. Once you get to the top, it’s easier to stay there abouts in the current free agent environment without bottoming out.
When you’re pretty much already at the bottom and have to rebuild due to previous poor recruiting that’s left massive gaps in certain age brackets on the list, there’s not much choice.
Even neutral supporters seem to be awake to your biased ignorance.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

It’s hilarious when people like you make definitive statements about kids playing in their first few seasons of footy.

The only high draft pick that looks like a clear mistake so far is Oliver over Weitering

Seems a lot of people are guilty of this.
It’s not a mistake at all. At least not yet. You might be able to say that in a few years time, but even then, would you be able to have Cripps and Oliver in the same team?

 

[PP34]

Seems a lot of people are guilty of this.
It’s not a mistake at all. At least not yet. You might be able to say that in a few years time, but even then, would you be able to have Cripps and Oliver in the same team?

To me it looks like a mistake. Unless Weitering reaches Rance levels I don’t see him being as valuable/good as Oliver.

And yeah I think they could coexist. Oliver despite not kicking it a heap, is actually a good kick. You don’t need a midfield full of speedsters. Would much rather have two ball winning beasts. The Dogs won a flag with Bont and Libba in the middle. Wouldn’t say either is lighting quick.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

To me it looks like a mistake. Unless Weitering reaches Rance levels I don’t see him being as valuable/good as Oliver.

And yeah I think they could coexist. Oliver despite not kicking it a heap, is actually a good kick. You don’t need a midfield full of speedsters. Would much rather have two ball winning beasts. The Dogs won a flag with Bont and Libba in the middle. Wouldn’t say either is lighting quick.

Going early? Exactly what you were lamenting.
Bont and Libba aren’t exactly a match for Cripps and Oliver.

 

[Monkey King]

But, I struggle to understand why supporters see the "need" to bottom out.

You probably struggle to understand because you think this is seen as a necessity in principle. It’s not. It’s a necessity via circumstance. Load the list with talent and we wouldn’t have needed bottom out to reload. Check out the list that SOS and Bolton took over however, and it had already bottomed out all on its own. Wooden spooners the year before they both came on board and not a wooden spoon since. Your point is redundant.

 

[Monkey King]

I do find it intriguing that the Pies were criticised for targeting mids at the beginning of our rebuild and we suffered as a result of not picking KPP’s first who would have come in and developed by now. On the other side of the spectrum, the Blues went all tall and to begin and now their midfield is ugly weak since their best picks are lanky talls all of whom are struggling except for CCurnow.

I support the idea of getting young talls in first. Mids are cheaper and more plentiful on the trade table and generally don’t take as long from draft day to hit their stride. Everyone gets stuck in the here and now, but the reset isn’t about making finals in 2018, it’s about building a strong list that can contend a few years down the track.

 

[Hinkley29]

I’d suggest you’re not much of a talent spotter.

I’d suggest you have a low threshold set for what constitutes “A grade talent”.

Weitering has shown that he could be a good player. A solid defender who could be relied on to play a defensive role for a number of years. But that doesn’t constitute “A grade talent”.

His lack of “A grade talent” is why he can’t get a kick when moved forward, when he has to create something rather than just perform a role.

Put it this way - I see Weitering’s destiny as potentially playing out like Tom Lonergan. Tom Lonergan was a terrific defender who played a role as a defensive stopper for a number of years. He also struggled to get a kick when moved forward. And he also could never be defined as an “A grade talent”. If Carlton got a career out of Weitering similar to what lonergan produced they would be very happy. Put aside the #1 draft pick status and look at him objectively.

 

[Monkey King]

I’d suggest you have a low threshold set for what constitutes “A grade talent”.

I’d say the top 5 KPD’s in the comp today are A grade players. Weitering showed in his debut season that on talent, he has the potential to be up there one day. He’s struggled at times last season and so far this season, but that doesn’t mean his talent has disappeared.

 

[Hinkley29]

I’d say the top 5 KPD’s in the comp today are A grade players. Weitering showed in his debut season that on talent, he has the potential to be up there one day. He’s struggled at times last season and so far this season, but that doesn’t mean his talent has disappeared.

Who do you rate as the top 5 KPD in the comp today?

Why is 5 the number?

It all sounds very arbitrary to me.

 

[davis_756]

I’d suggest you have a low threshold set for what constitutes “A grade talent”.

Weitering has shown that he could be a good player. A solid defender who could be relied on to play a defensive role for a number of years. But that doesn’t constitute “A grade talent”.

His lack of “A grade talent” is why he can’t get a kick when moved forward, when he has to create something rather than just perform a role.

Put it this way - I see Weitering’s destiny as potentially playing out like Tom Lonergan. Tom Lonergan was a terrific defender who played a role as a defensive stopper for a number of years. He also struggled to get a kick when moved forward. And he also could never be defined as an “A grade talent”. If Carlton got a career out of Weitering similar to what lonergan produced they would be very happy. Put aside the #1 draft pick status and look at him objectively.

Round 1 2017 suggested otherwise, hasn't looked.as settled since though with injuries and roll changes.

Have full faith once he gets his body and head into.a good space he will be great at both ends

 

[Blue1980]

I’d suggest you have a low threshold set for what constitutes “A grade talent”.

Weitering has shown that he could be a good player. A solid defender who could be relied on to play a defensive role for a number of years. But that doesn’t constitute “A grade talent”.

His lack of “A grade talent” is why he can’t get a kick when moved forward, when he has to create something rather than just perform a role.

Put it this way - I see Weitering’s destiny as potentially playing out like Tom Lonergan. Tom Lonergan was a terrific defender who played a role as a defensive stopper for a number of years. He also struggled to get a kick when moved forward. And he also could never be defined as an “A grade talent”. If Carlton got a career out of Weitering similar to what lonergan produced they would be very happy. Put aside the #1 draft pick status and look at him objectively.

He’s done okay at times moving forward. I think him being out this week injured shows he’s probably been carrying something

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Who do you rate as the top 5 KPD in the comp today?

Why is 5 the number?

It all sounds very arbitrary to me.

Why don’t you tell us who the A grade KPDs are in the league and how they were going at 20yo and 46 games?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I’d suggest you have a low threshold set for what constitutes “A grade talent”.

Weitering has shown that he could be a good player. A solid defender who could be relied on to play a defensive role for a number of years. But that doesn’t constitute “A grade talent”.

His lack of “A grade talent” is why he can’t get a kick when moved forward, when he has to create something rather than just perform a role.

Put it this way - I see Weitering’s destiny as potentially playing out like Tom Lonergan. Tom Lonergan was a terrific defender who played a role as a defensive stopper for a number of years. He also struggled to get a kick when moved forward. And he also could never be defined as an “A grade talent”. If Carlton got a career out of Weitering similar to what lonergan produced they would be very happy. Put aside the #1 draft pick status and look at him objectively.

They are nothing alike. Weitering is only 20 and already has 3 games where he has picked up more touches then Lonergan ever did.

 

[Hinkley29]

They are nothing alike. Weitering is only 20 and already has 3 games where he has picked up more touches then Lonergan ever did.

Well done on completely missing the point.

If Weitering is beating the Buddy-equivalent forwards in 2025 you will be very happy.