The ALP is pissweak (and has been for years)

[Bomberboyokay]

More pissweakery from the maybe-if-we-just-go-along-with-everything-the-government-wants-people-will-vote-US-into-government-one-day party.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ool-package-it-previously-called-a-slush-fund

Caucus of careerists content to dick around on the Opposition benches loading up the superannuation, putting their kids through private school and be in Government 3 years out of every 12. Unwinding of their mildly left wing policies since the election is pathetic.

 

[Northalives]

Everything I've read in this thread from those who are genuinely pissed off at the ALP's feebleness and who lament that the Party is demoralised, as opposed to those who just hate the ALP because they are not the right extremists of the Liberal Party, everything I've read from those with a genuine love for an inclusive and progressive Australia, I agree with you wholeheartedly. It may be time for those whose anxiety and ill feeling towards what the ALP is becoming/has become, maybe it's time to become members and start agitating.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Everything I've read in this thread from those who are genuinely pi**ed off at the ALP's feebleness and who lament that the Party is demoralised, as opposed to those who just hate the ALP because they are not the right extremists of the Liberal Party, everything I've read from those with a genuine love for an inclusive and progressive Australia, I agree with you wholeheartedly. It may be time for those whose anxiety and ill feeling towards what the ALP is becoming/has become, maybe it's time to become members and start agitating.

The ALP has been totally useless for 40 years or more, ever since it was hijacked by Hawke and his gangster and DLP mates.

 

[its free real estate]

Suck it up guys, left wing politics are dead as a political force.

 

[NSWCROW]

Suck it up guys, left wing politics are dead as a political force.

Huge if true

 

[Carringbush2010]

Suck it up guys, left wing politics are dead as a political force.

Not so fast! Left wing politics rely on noisy minorities noise. It makes it look like the noise represents the majority.

Noisy minorities are and have always been there, why do you think the ALP brought in borderline impractical policies? (recent example).

Left wing idealogues are largely impractical but popular among minorities because those minorities don't realize they're impractical. For example the most extremist thinking Green believes we can achieve net zero emissions next year without any consequence.

Those types will ALWAYS exist (even though always a minority) and therefore left wing politics we always be a force.

 

[Kram]

Unwinding of their mildly left wing policies since the election is pathetic.

lolol.

 

[Andrew Birch]

Huge if true

 

[Emptyorangeseat]

The ALP is pissweak and has been since Keating went in 1996.

With the Howard govt, they stayed silent in opposition when the poorest Australians were kicked. Beasley was especially pissweak.

And in govt, Gillard and Macklin went after many segments of the poor just like good little Liberals.

And now this today:

Jim Chalmers ditches Labor’s pre-election pledge to conduct review into Newstart

Jim Chalmers ditches Labor’s pre-election pledge to conduct review into Newstart

Shadow treasurer says decision an ‘unfortunate consequence’ of Coalition’s victory

www.theguardian.com

No surprises from this pissweak party.

Well Hawke sold Australia out and signed up with the United Nations!
Labor aligned with the greens

really wtf do you expect!

 

[Emptyorangeseat]

Brain of a Liberal voter here.

And the greens believe in communism is the way to go! Go figure muppet

 

[hamohawk1]

The issue is the average ALP voter has changed. Years ago your working class union member would be the quintessential ALP member, what is the ALP average voter now? I feel for a lot of us its tough to find themselves in the middle ground of the greens and labor.

Also needs to grow a spine and berate Scomo. Liberals have been great politicising an issue, use every opportunity to remind Scomo of the impacts climate change are having.

Agree with the sentiment, labor are pissweak

 

[Emptyorangeseat]

The issue is the average ALP voter has changed. Years ago your working class union member would be the quintessential ALP member, what is the ALP average voter now? I feel for a lot of us its tough to find themselves in the middle ground of the greens and labor.

Also needs to grow a spine and berate Scomo. Liberals have been great politicising an issue, use every opportunity to remind Scomo of the impacts climate change are having.

Agree with the sentiment, labor are pissweak

It was Julia old Bill and the greens sold the workers out when they set up the fair work commission and the casualised work force.

They have gone from the workers party to lowering them self a spineless turn party like the greens trying to appeal to the inner city elites, scare the uni students with propaganda and the usual general degenerate Green voters

 

[Northalives]

Australia is reliant upon having a strong Labor Party whether in opposition or in Government. Australian Politics has always been about labour versus anti-labour and the minute that labor starts to f**k itself, it f**k's the country because the anti-labour forces start to run amok. This revelation may be unpalatable for people on all sides of politics but that is the quintessential essence of politics in Australia.

What we are seeing now in Australia is as a direct result of the ALP losing discipline and allowing the scum rat Rudd to undermine a Labor Prime Minister - everything flows from that.

Senior people in the ALP parliamentary party betrayed the principles of the Party by placing far more importance on preserving their fiefdoms than working for the ALP cause. Instead of (figuratively speaking of course) kneecapping Rudd the minute his treachery became evident, they were more interested in sandbagging their little domains than expelling Rudd from the party and at the heart of these machinations, was Shorten and his complex.

Enter Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison and even when this filth became so abhorrent that the electorate were dying to vote them out of office, the ALP failed the electorate again. The ALP behaved in an extraordinarily arrogant and undisciplined manner that the electorate just couldn't bring themselves to vote for the ALP. It's as simple as that and all of this right wing/left wing ascendancy/decline stuff makes great debate but it is too precious by half; no offence to anyone.

For those that think that the ALP is "gone" and the "right" is in the ascendancy are as flawed in their thinking as are those who think that the ALP should have been more "right wing", "left wing" or "centrist". The plain simple truth is and it's worth repeating again, "Oppositions do not win Government, Governments lose Government" and if the Opposition of the time do not understand this, then they inevitably fail regardless of how "left", "right" or "centrist" a government is.

Elections are a referendum on Governments and if the Government of the day is bad, let alone toxic as the previous LNP Government was, all the electorate seek is a "safe" Opposition to redirect their vote too - they need to feel secure and the ALP at the last election just f***ed up; they couldn't even impersonate a drover's dog!

Albanese is a clean skin and people aren't cynical nor frightened of him and so long as the ALP is disciplined and focussed on what it means to be in Opposition, then the next election could well be the massacre of the LNP that people thought was going to happen in the 2019 election.

The thrust and counter thrust of "right" vs "left" is just a bit of interest to those who like their politics. To the vast majority of those who actually change their vote and thereby change Governments, the left/right debate between budding psephologists may as well be a debate on whether crunchy peanut better is better than smooth peanut butter.

 

[tandino]

may as well be a debate on whether crunchy peanut better is better than smooth peanut butter.

The science is settled on that one.

 

[Danger2Jenkins]

Well Hawke sold Australia out and signed up with the United Nations!
Labor aligned with the greens

really wtf do you expect!

Howard sold all our gold and public assets like Telstra for * all and pissed it all away to hi vis wearing bogans (and still lost the election). He learned absolutely nothing from his zionist puppeteers and had less investment sense than those people who sold their Sydney homes in 2011.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Australia is reliant upon having a strong Labor Party whether in opposition or in Government. Australian Politics has always been about labour versus anti-labour and the minute that labor starts to f**k itself, it f**k's the country because the anti-labour forces start to run amok. This revelation may be unpalatable for people on all sides of politics but that is the quintessential essence of politics in Australia.

The Labor party set themselves up to fail when Hawke and Keating implemented neoliberalism. It may have been necessary to do at the time combat the extreme austerity of Thatcherism and Regeanomics but it has hurts us in the long term.

What we are seeing now in Australia is as a direct result of the ALP losing discipline and allowing the scum rat Rudd to undermine a Labor Prime Minister - everything flows from that.

This has nothing to do with Rudd and to blame him is pointless. I don't necessarily agree with his politics but he is still the only Labor leader in recent times to be popular. He was also outside the Labor left wing-right wing divide. The modern trend to blame him is ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]

Senior people in the ALP parliamentary party betrayed the principles of the Party by placing far more importance on preserving their fiefdoms than working for the ALP cause. Instead of (figuratively speaking of course) kneecapping Rudd the minute his treachery became evident, they were more interested in sandbagging their little domains than expelling Rudd from the party and at the heart of these machinations, was Shorten and his complex.

They attacked Labor's most popular leader since Hawke. They removed him in the middle of the night with no real justification other than 'he was hard to work with'. Do you think the common person cares about that? Especially given Rudd, like many Labor supporters, grew up poor yet a 'faceless man' like Shorten, who was supposed to represent us, was a Xavier boy? Why do you think we related more with Rudd? Shorten, even with his times in the AWU, he was never a real worker.

Enter Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison and even when this filth became so abhorrent that the electorate were dying to vote them out of office, the ALP failed the electorate again. The ALP behaved in an extraordinarily arrogant and undisciplined manner that the electorate just couldn't bring themselves to vote for the ALP. It's as simple as that and all of this right wing/left wing ascendancy/decline stuff makes great debate but it is too precious by half; no offence to anyone.

Nonsense. One of Shorten's strengths was that he promoted left wing policies. The fact that he was hamstrung by a conservative media isn't a failure on his behalf. He had to deal with a hostile media that promoted the Liberal 'everything is Labor's fault' argument'.

For those that think that the ALP is "gone" and the "right" is in the ascendancy are as flawed in their thinking as are those who think that the ALP should have been more "right wing", "left wing" or "centrist". The plain simple truth is and it's worth repeating again, "Oppositions do not win Government, Governments lose Government" and if the Opposition of the time do not understand this, then they inevitably fail regardless of how "left", "right" or "centrist" a government is.

Once again, when the working class is convinced by Australia's largest media conglomerate that Labor is the enemy, it's always going to be infinitely more difficult. Especially when you choose policies over charisma.

Elections are a referendum on Governments and if the Government of the day is bad, let alone toxic as the previous LNP Government was, all the electorate seek is a "safe" Opposition to redirect their vote too - they need to feel secure and the ALP at the last election just f***ed up; they couldn't even impersonate a drover's dog!

Labor was fine, and in my opinion, I went into the election reinvigorated. Under Albanese, who I thought was closer to my personal beliefs, I feel far less optimistic. Once again, negative media mixed with an ageing electorate who wanted to protect themselves.

Albanese is a clean skin and people aren't cynical nor frightened of him and so long as the ALP is disciplined and focussed on what it means to be in Opposition, then the next election could well be the massacre of the LNP that people thought was going to happen in the 2019 election.

No. Albanese has been a joke, despite as above, I would rather he led us to the last election. So far, its free real estate has been right. He's been a joke. All he's done is allow every Liberal policy to go through without any push back.

The thrust and counter thrust of "right" vs "left" is just a bit of interest to those who like their politics. To the vast majority of those who actually change their vote and thereby change Governments, the left/right debate between budding psephologists may as well be a debate on whether crunchy peanut better is better than smooth peanut butter.

Ultimately, Australia is a conservative country. We have proven this time and time again. There's a reason we've had 5-6 years out of 30 with liberal governments.

 

[Northalives]

The issue is the average ALP voter has changed. Years ago your working class union member would be the quintessential ALP member, what is the ALP average voter now? I feel for a lot of us its tough to find themselves in the middle ground of the greens and labor.

Also needs to grow a spine and berate Scomo. Liberals have been great politicising an issue, use every opportunity to remind Scomo of the impacts climate change are having.

Agree with the sentiment, labor are pissweak

I know where you're coming from but I think that it's the ALP itself that became to "self important", if that makes sense, after the magnificent reign of the Hawke/Keating Governments and where many within the ALP wanted to continue on being the progressive party it is, the "kingmakers" within the Party proved to be the biggest obstacle, not the anti-labour forces.

The ALP has always been sensitive to the changing world, whether that be the First World War and conscription, the Great Depression, the Second World War and conscription, the reconstruction of Australia after WW11, Vietnam, OPEC flexing its muscle, GFC and many other things as well. The ALP has always taken into account where Australia is at specific times and prosecuted uniquely Australian epochal policies - history tells us so.

The outrage by many within the ALP at Hawke and Keating's Banking policies was vicious but that was the "old warriors", so to speak, who still viewed the world like it was the 1950's. The floating of the dollar and the Button Car plan freaked some of the old warrior class out whilst the new warriors understood and backed Keating and Hawke and the electorate followed suit: it's called leadership.

The ALP at the time understood that the world was indeed changing and that the manufacturing sector as it was, had no hope in competing with the emerging economies of what were once classed as the "3rd world" so we had to transition, or our standard of living would collapse. Hawke and Keating dragged us out of the 1950's and moved us into and indeed, way beyond the late 20th century and as such, the old, industrial trades unions had to change to meet the modern world.

People tend to forget that the great era of 1983-1996 began by the ALP embracing the "new" environmental consciousness that was sweeping the nation at the time and this, as well as the gross ineptitude of Fraser with Howard as his treasurer, led to a massive swing away from the Government and ushered in a truly great epoch.

Unlike the spineless ALP campaign of 2019, Hawke had said in the 1983 campaign that if the ALP were elected to office, then the Gordon-below-Franklin Dam would NOT be built and the electorate said "Yep, they're for me". How's that for irony? If Shorten had said that if the ALP were to be elected then the Adani mine would NOT go ahead and then just shut up and pointed at the civil war within the LNP over climate change and environmental policies, then the LNP would have been routed and then the question of what constitutes and ALP supporter would be easy to answer: one who sees a party in tune with their 2019 thoughts and attitudes.

Shorten and those arrogant bastards who thought nothing of giving tons and tons of ammunition to the toe-rag Morrison with which to scare the living daylights out of the electorate, they are the ones that betrayed the ALP by betraying those who wanted to vote for the ALP. The truth is though that was 2019 under Shorten, next time 'round, it will be Albanese in 2022 and if what he has been saying lately with his keynote speeches thus far, I feel that those thoughts and policies will connect with the electorate - especially the realisation that we will be able to compete with the so called once "3rd world" countries in manufacturing high end, world class products if we harness the boundless, cheap, renewable energy sources that we are so lucky to have in Australia. It is a medium and long term view which I think will resonate very strongly with those "middle ground" people you are talking about and those who can vote out governments.

 

[Northalives]

The Labor party set themselves up to fail when Hawke and Keating implemented neoliberalism. It may have been necessary to do at the time combat the extreme austerity of Thatcherism and Regeanomics but it has hurts us in the long term.


This has nothing to do with Rudd and to blame him is pointless. I don't necessarily agree with his politics but he is still the only Labor leader in recent times to be popular. He was also outside the Labor left wing-right wing divide. The modern trend to blame him is ridiculous.

They attacked Labor's most popular leader since Hawke. They removed him in the middle of the night with no real justification other than 'he was hard to work with'. Do you think the common person cares about that? Especially given Rudd, like many Labor supporters, grew up poor yet a 'faceless man' like Shorten, who was supposed to represent us, was a Xavier boy? Why do you think we related more with Rudd? Shorten, even with his times in the AWU, he was never a real worker.


Nonsense. One of Shorten's strengths was that he promoted left wing policies. The fact that he was hamstrung by a conservative media isn't a failure on his behalf. He had to deal with a hostile media that promoted the Liberal 'everything is Labor's fault' argument'.


Once again, when the working class is convinced by Australia's largest media conglomerate that Labor is the enemy, it's always going to be infinitely more difficult. Especially when you choose policies over charisma.



Labor was fine, and in my opinion, I went into the election reinvigorated. Under Albanese, who I thought was closer to my personal beliefs, I feel far less optimistic. Once again, negative media mixed with an ageing electorate who wanted to protect themselves.




No. Albanese has been a joke, despite as above, I would rather he led us to the last election. So far, its free real estate has been right. He's been a joke. All he's done is allow every Liberal policy to go through without any push back.

Ultimately, Australia is a conservative country. We have proven this time and time again. There's a reason we've had 5-6 years out of 30 with liberal governments.
[/QUOTE]
Australian's don't like change when they are confronted with the prospect of change and that is why, come election time, they run a million miles from anyone promising what they perceive as radical change.

It is completely different though when so called "radical change" is implemented by governments of the time. They are then able to asses whether or not these changes are good or bad and vote accordingly at the next election - history tells us this.

We have been a profoundly progressive country since Federation and unfortunately, if you think that the reason that we have had all but 6 out of 23 years , not 30 years, of Liberal Party Governments because "Australia is a conservative country", then I'm afraid that you are way off the mark.

Howard, who came to office because the ALP Government was on the nose and not for any other reason, rode the Hawke/Keating Labor legacy right the way through his term in office by doing nothing except 1. redistributing the wealth of the brilliant economy he inherited upwards. 2. destroying the conventions and protocols of ministerial and parliamentary responsibility. 3. blew his dog whistle continuously and as loudly as he could - all Menzian era tactics except for #2.

From around the middle of 2008, after the ALP implemented the most NON - conservative economic policies imaginable to get us through the GFC unscathed and much to the chagrin of the "conservatives", Rudd became moribund and very little ALP policy, if any, was implemented. If that was the Liberal Party, they'ed be wrapped but it was the ALP and ALP ministers and the Party itself would not just sit idly by and let time pass doing nothing.

The Green imbeciles along with the knuckledragers of the LNP kept rejecting the "carbon tax" in the senate and Rudd being the gutless wonder that he is, refused to hold a double dissolution election over the issue which would have given the ALP the same majority if not more in the reps but most importantly, almost certainly control of the senate as well but Rudd dithered and s**t his pants. The ALP said enough's enough Kevin, thanks for all you've done but it's time for you to go so we can get on with implementing ALP policy.

From that moment on, the ALP became what the Liberal Party has been for the last 6 years; a rabble with factions at war except in the ALP's case, it was a little egomaniac that undermined a Labor Government not over some ideological differences, but because he wanted to be "King". In the ALP, the party is always bigger than the individual and the individual must always defer to the Party - another huge difference between the ALP and the Liberals.

The ALP was returned at the next election but only just, (exactly the same with the Liberals and Turnbull post Abbott) but at the next election, the ALP were slaughtered by the electorate and Abbott slinked into office by saying everything that the electorate wanted to hear, lying 'till the cows came home that he wouldn't do anything radical like cut health, education etc etc and the electorate felt safe so they redirected their votes to Abbott and the Liberals. As soon as he got into office, out the window went all his promises. Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison are Kevin Rudd's legacy to Australia and Shorten showed that when it comes to politics, Abbott was brighter! Shorten should have just kept shtum and Morrison and his inept mob would not have been re-elected.

That's how politics works in this country works and no matter how much people want it not to be so, as to not destroy their affection for individual politicians and parties, I'm afraid it's as simple as Oppositions don't win Government, Governments lose Government and if Oppositions abide by this fundamental law of politics in Australia, bad governments get turfed out, good 'uns get re-elected.

PS. Hawke was removed for exactly the same reasons as Rudd was, that is, the ALP government had basically ground to a halt because of Hawke's, by then, fragile mental state irrespective of the the Kirribilli agreement. As I stated previously, the ALP is bigger than the individual, not the other way 'round but Rudd could not give a f**k about the party and whether or not he was "wildly popular" once upon a time, at the time of his removal, the ALP vote was collapsing because of his "rabbit-in-the-spotlight" impersonation, both in the electorates perception of him as well as the reality of the way he was in caucus and within the party room. You may have also forgotten but when Gillard was anointed by the Federal Parliamentary Labor party as leader, AS WELL AS having the massive and overwhelming support of the rank and file, she was also "wildly popular" with the electorate. It was Rudd and his filthy undermining and leaking to the hyena Julie Bishop's office that eventually wore down and nearly caused the fall of an ALP Government. As it was the damage had been done and even after the ALP was returned, the **** Rudd continued on his campaign of destroying a sitting ALP Prime Minister and hence a Labor Government, this time, an elected one for no other reason than his ego. A drover's dog did win the subsequent election.

 

[Emptyorangeseat]

The issue is the average ALP voter has changed. Years ago your working class union member would be the quintessential ALP member, what is the ALP average voter now? I feel for a lot of us its tough to find themselves in the middle ground of the greens and labor.

Also needs to grow a spine and berate Scomo. Liberals have been great politicising an issue, use every opportunity to remind Scomo of the impacts climate change are having.

Agree with the sentiment, labor are pissweak

They were the workers party! Then abandoned them after old bill and Julia stabbed in the back with the fair work!

they stand for nothing now days and adopted the looney green policies

 

[HairyO]

Howard sold all our gold and public assets like Telstra for fu** all and pissed it all away to hi vis wearing bogans (and still lost the election). He learned absolutely nothing from his zionist puppeteers and had less investment sense than those people who sold their Sydney homes in 2011.

Keating sold half the CBA. Then lied and said the other half wouldnt be sold. Then sold it anyway.

Before Howard sold anything.

By the way, how did Howard sell State controlled mineral rights ?

 

[its free real estate]

Rudd is the only ALP leader to win a majority in nearly 30 years, and the only one to do it from opposition in nearly 40.

 

[its free real estate]

Also the lionisation of Keating on here is pathetic. He won a single election off the back of a "great big new tax" scare and lost the 1996 election so badly that the ALP have never really recovered. For all his supposed political acumen he has a shoddy record. Adored by the professional-managerial class for his bourgeois values though.

 

[HairyO]

Also the lionisation of Keating on here is pathetic. He won a single election off the back of a "great big new tax" scare and lost the 1996 election so badly that the ALP have never really recovered. For all his supposed political acumen he has a shoddy record. Adored by the professional-managerial class for his bourgeois values though.

He sure did dress well. And those clocks !

And the Redfern speech which he didnt write but claims that he did.

 

[Bazzar]

They were the workers party! Then abandoned them after old bill and Julia stabbed in the back with the fair work!

they stand for nothing now days and adopted the looney green policies

The fact that jellyfish have survived for 650 million years despite not having brains, gives hope to the Labor party.

 

[its free real estate]

He sure did dress well. And those clocks !

And the Redfern speech which he didnt write but claims that he did.

You can see why the same group pinned their hopes on Turnbull. He was their chance to leave the pesky working class behind. Unfortunately the reactionary troglodytes in the Liberal Party saw through this nonsense and Labor is stuck with them for the time being.